5.4 Frost Haste Soft Cap Gems & Reforge

[slap 5]

With the changes in 5.4 I am having a hard time deciding how to re-gem and reforge. What value are other frost mages using for the haste soft cap with the new proc system for trinkets and other variables. If I use the default AMR settings for 5.4 it's telling me to gem haste up to 49.53% in 5.3 this was a huge waste with the legendary meta proc as well as trink procs. I'm choosing to play frost for at least the first few weeks of SoO so please keep your change spec comments to yourselves ;) Thanks for any help in advance.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Slapnticklee/simple

[Damien 1,514]

You should definitely change spec and play Arcane or Fire. Just kidding!

In SimC, haste starts losing to Crit and Mastery when you are at 45% haste with raid-buffs.

[slap 5]

You should definitely change spec and play Arcane or Fire. Just kidding!

In SimC, haste starts losing to Crit and Mastery when you are at 45% haste with raid-buffs.

 

Haha! Thanks that helps, I will adjust the soft cap so im around 45% buffed.

[Damien 1,514]

It's hard to give you a more precise value, because the exact value at which you will want to switch depends on your haste procs. The idea is that when you get close to hitting the global cooldown, haste you gain from trinkets or from Heroism is partly wasted. The bigger the procs, the bigger the waste, and at some point, you're wasting too much haste that Haste starts losing out to other stats.

So, that point is going to depend on gear. If you have the legendary meta-gem, and trinkets that proc haste, then you're going to reach that point soon.

[slap 5]

It's hard to give you a more precise value, because the exact value at which you will want to switch depends on your haste procs. The idea is that when you get close to hitting the global cooldown, haste you gain from trinkets or from Heroism is partly wasted. The bigger the procs, the bigger the waste, and at some point, you're wasting too much haste that Haste starts losing out to other stats.

So, that point is going to depend on gear. If you have the legendary meta-gem, and trinkets that proc haste, then you're going to reach that point soon.

Oh thats already happened lol... I will probably sit somewhere around 40% as to not waste the haste with my meta and haste trinks. I think the magic number for me is 37..52 which is 2 ticks of living bomb and 5 of NT. That way I can benefit from the procs a little more.

[RyanStanley 0]

Oh thats already happened lol... I will probably sit somewhere around 40% as to not waste the haste with my meta and haste trinks. I think the magic number for me is 37..52 which is 2 ticks of living bomb and 5 of NT. That way I can benefit from the procs a little more.

That just seems so low for haste though.  Anybody else share thoughts on this?  I'm at about 45% buffed haste atm... but I'm having problems with output too it seems. 

[Vladamyr 169]

Haste to 48% > Mastery > Haste is the most common build right now.  However, Akraen (one of the top frost mages) goes full haste with no cap.  His playstyle requires snapshotting procs to refresh his Nether Tempest and is based on multidotting for most of his damage.

 

I would make sure to get haste to at least 48% then decide on which playstyle fits you better.

[Fiddslol 0]

Haste to 48% > Mastery > Haste is the most common build right now.  However, Akraen (one of the top frost mages) goes full haste with no cap.  His playstyle requires snapshotting procs to refresh his Nether Tempest and is based on multidotting for most of his damage.

 

I would make sure to get haste to at least 48% then decide on which playstyle fits you better.

 

What do you mean by snapshotting procs?

Edited October 23, 2013 by Fiddslol

[Oltier 471]

When you get an intellect proc, you immediately refresh your bomb.

Then, you only refresh it when it expires, or you get an even higher intellect proc.

[synkronized 1]

Out of curiosity do the top Mages clip those dots for smaller intell procs like Jade Serpent or we talking about the Bindings of Imerseus/ Meta gem / Y'saarj type big procs?

 

And along those lines I've always been uncomfortable about clipping Living Bomb since the last tick provides a burst of damage.  Should I just snapshot regardless?

[Oltier 471]

Out of curiosity do the top Mages clip those dots for smaller intell procs like Jade Serpent or we talking about the Bindings of Imerseus/ Meta gem / Y'saarj type big procs?

 

And along those lines I've always been uncomfortable about clipping Living Bomb since the last tick provides a burst of damage.  Should I just snapshot regardless?

 

Yes, they/we do refresh on Jade serpent as well. That is not that small proc :D

 

Living bomb ince 5.2 does not do a "burst" damage on explosion, so yes. you should snapshout.

[mastamage 2]

Out of curiosity do the top Mages clip those dots for smaller intell procs like Jade Serpent or we talking about the Bindings of Imerseus/ Meta gem / Y'saarj type big procs?

 

And along those lines I've always been uncomfortable about clipping Living Bomb since the last tick provides a burst of damage.  Should I just snapshot regardless?

Jade Serpent pot, sure. Jade Spirit? Not worth it.  Affdots has a plugin for Mages: Affdots - Mage. It's basically a constant updating addon that will tell you how much more, or less, % your bomb will do if you were to cast it. Very helpful.

 

Snapshotting should be done on all builds for Frost but the Haste build is built around it.

[mastamage 2]

Haste to 48% > Mastery > Haste is the most common build right now.  However, Akraen (one of the top frost mages) goes full haste with no cap.  His playstyle requires snapshotting procs to refresh his Nether Tempest and is based on multidotting for most of his damage.

 

I would make sure to get haste to at least 48% then decide on which playstyle fits you better.

All playstyles work but have their limitations (that's the most important thing to take away from what Frost build you choose).

 

Haste to 9522 or 9762 then stack mastery is the best for Single Target. This allows you to switch back and forth between and Arcane and Frost when needed.

 

Complete Haste stacking with complete attention to snapshotting will yield higher results on a multi-dot fight.

 

Mixture build is based on not exceeding the GCD. With this build you're basically aiming to get to a nearby breakpoint and then turn the rest to mastery or vice versa. This build is versatile but falls short of the other two in their respective fights.

 

Here's a link to an explanation of each build and some math to explain it: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1357737-Frost-Akraen-s-Comprehensive-Guide-to-5-4-Frost-%28Advanced%29

 

Happy Mage'ing!

[synkronized 1]

Jade Serpent pot, sure. Jade Spirit? Not worth it.  Affdots has a plugin for Mages: Affdots - Mage. It's basically a constant updating addon that will tell you how much more, or less, % your bomb will do if you were to cast it. Very helpful.

 

Snapshotting should be done on all builds for Frost but the Haste build is built around it.

Affdots sounds awesome.  In a lot of fights I'm looking at my dps procs and wondering "Uhhh do I gain or lose dps by snapshotting right now?"  

[Oltier 471]

Jade Serpent pot, sure. Jade Spirit? Not worth it.  Affdots has a plugin for Mages: Affdots - Mage. It's basically a constant updating addon that will tell you how much more, or less, % your bomb will do if you were to cast it. Very helpful.

 

Snapshotting should be done on all builds for Frost but the Haste build is built around it.

Jade spirit, Jade serpent.. Almost the same :D You are right tho, thanks for the correction.

[Blackd 8]

(already posted on eu forums for mages but ill do the same here)

 

Does haste become that useless after 50% and we should stack mastery?
I have 42,5% self buffed atm and with meta gem I dont go over the GCD only with TW. So for 40 seconds or less actually (you wont have meta gem proc for 40 sec straight) we should stop go for haste?
So after some thinking I came to this question: more haste => more spell casts => more icicles => more damage and of course more DOT's but people are aware of that
Any math guy have some thoughts about this?

[mastamage 2]

(already posted on eu forums for mages but ill do the same here)

 

Does haste become that useless after 50% and we should stack mastery?

I have 42,5% self buffed atm and with meta gem I dont go over the GCD only with TW. So for 40 seconds or less actually (you wont have meta gem proc for 40 sec straight) we should stop go for haste?

So after some thinking I came to this question: more haste => more spell casts => more icicles => more damage and of course more DOT's but people are aware of that

Any math guy have some thoughts about this?

If you're stacking mastery, you're either A) playing the mastery build with you'll be at 9762 haste rating w/ frost armor and stacking mastery beyond that (pretty much an arcane build) or B) playing the mixed build getting haste to the GCD and then filling in mastery after that.

 

Each build has it's own limitations so you need to be aware of those: mastery = highest single target / haste = highest multi-dot build / mixed = doesn't perform as good as those in their specific fights but it still performs fine.

 

I run with just over 20k haste rating and I like it. I tried the mastery build and didn't like it. To each his own.

[Oltier 471]

If you're stacking mastery, you're either A) playing the mastery build with you'll be at 9762 haste rating w/ frost armor and stacking mastery beyond that (pretty much an arcane build) or playing the mixed build getting haste to the GCD and then filling in mastery after that.

 

Each build has it's own limitations so you need to be aware of those: mastery = highest single target / haste = highest multi-dot build / mixed = doesn't perform as good as those in their specific fights but it still performs fine.

 

I run with just over 20k haste rating and I like it. I tried the mastery build and didn't like it. To each his own.

 

To bring an example: if we look at a single target fight the build prios will be: mastery>mixture>haste

Multitarget fight: haste>mixture>mastery.

 

Also Blackd all of your questions would require an in depth analysis that I would not go into, as the comment just above you contains a link to @AkraenStormrage's awesome frost mage guide on mmoc, which includes all answer to your questions.

 

All playstyles work but have their limitations (that's the most important thing to take away from what Frost build you choose).

 

Haste to 9522 or 9762 then stack mastery is the best for Single Target. This allows you to switch back and forth between and Arcane and Frost when needed.

 

Complete Haste stacking with complete attention to snapshotting will yield higher results on a multi-dot fight.

 

Mixture build is based on not exceeding the GCD. With this build you're basically aiming to get to a nearby breakpoint and then turn the rest to mastery or vice versa. This build is versatile but falls short of the other two in their respective fights.

 

Here's a link to an explanation of each build and some math to explain it: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1357737-Frost-Akraen-s-Comprehensive-Guide-to-5-4-Frost-%28Advanced%29

 

Happy Mage'ing!

[Blackd 8]

Thanks for the replies, I'll check that guide for sure ;)

[Akraen 230]

I'm honored to see my guide referenced here :)

 

I'm going to see about getting it stickied in this forum to maybe help out some more. I have some updates to add to it as well.

 

Since the IV glyph was fixed, it's used in any situation (only exception would be for padding on Paragons but I don't recommend that! :P)

 

This seems like a friendlier community, maybe I should ditch MMO-C!

[Xkamor 0]

Hello,

I'm using affdots as your suggestion to refresh bombs.

 

What about refreshing the bomb right before the proc expires? At the moment affdots is very useful when you get some procs. I would like also some flashing or warning from affdots right before the proc ends (2 sec would be nice) to have time to react. Garrosh trinket for instance has a ramp so it's nice to refresh at it's end and know you are at the end of it.

 

Am i thinking right? refreshing towards the end of a proc extends the bomb for much more time. At the moment I put in weak auras a graphical effect near affdots everytime one of the procs is 2 sec to expire.

[Tigersharrk 4]

Just wondering what the soft haste cap is for Arcane as well??

Is there a cap for Mastery?

[Akraen 230]

Just wondering what the soft haste cap is for Arcane as well??

Is there a cap for Mastery?

No mastery cap, scales linearly and awesomely.

 

Haste... just follow breakpoints. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/haste/magearcane

You don't use frost armor, so don't check that. I recommend 13163 personally (because PBoI makes it easy to get this) but other arcane mages would advise otherwise.

[Tigersharrk 4]

Ok thx, yeah I know not to use Frost Armor for Arc.

My hast is at 12%ish...think thats at 9545 or close to that number, so it should be around 15 to 20% for Arc?

 

Now even though crit is at the bottom of the stat list whats a good number to have cause I'm sure you don't want to be devoid of crit. 

 

Also, just to prove how noob I'am, can you explain Breakpoints and PBoI to me, cause reading some other posts I kinda getting lost in translation and Google isn't being nice in telling me.

[Ghanjo 37]

A good amount of crit to have as an arcane mage would be zero*. Haste and mastery are much better stats, so try to get as much mastery-haste and mastery-hit gear as possible. 

 

* Since you get spell crit from intellect (I can't find the conversion rate), you can't have zero crit. But try to get as little as possible from gear. Also, there will be crit on some of your tier gear, the tier bonuses are awesome, so use that as well.