Sub Priority clarification

[Uinike 0]

I need some clarification on Shadow Dancing. How often am I really supposed to be popping it? Every time there is a charge or literally wait for the 3 charges? Also, does any one have any tips on how to do good AoE damage on mobs that die relatively fast? I've been struggling to keep mine up for mythic+ content. 

I don't have any raid logs right now but here is my armory https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/proudmoore/uinike

[Carrn 284]

On 2017-5-16 at 5:43 AM, Uinike said:

I need some clarification on Shadow Dancing. How often am I really supposed to be popping it? Every time there is a charge or literally wait for the 3 charges? Also, does any one have any tips on how to do good AoE damage on mobs that die relatively fast? I've been struggling to keep mine up for mythic+ content. 

I don't have any raid logs right now but here is my armory https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/proudmoore/uinike

If you've got Shadow Blades up, I burn charges until it runs out. Otherwise, using it to stop yourself from hitting 3 charges is ideal, because it guarantees that you have it available for when you need it. It's ok to use a charge if priority adds spawn or something, but in general you should try and hold onto them

For burst AoE, you really just use SD then replace Shadowstrike with Shuriken Storm

[Necronoxxic 0]

I pop it so often Im practically in Shadow Dance more than not.. I save Shadow Blades for when I have no charges whatsoever, then I use that to ride my way back up to 2 charges/a few seconds away from 3 charges. Make sure in Shadow Dance you never cast SStrike 3 times in a row... Always put a finisher somewhere in the middle to pop back a small amount of energy for one or two more SStrikes to try and fit 4 of them into a shadow dance. remind yourself to always use your finisher at 4-6 combo points and mentally take off 15 seconds accordingly to the cooldown of the next one... Realistically the cooldown of shadow dance is more like 10-20 seconds rather than a whole minute

 

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, Necronoxxic said:

I save Shadow Blades for when I have no charges whatsoever

Why do you do it like that? You're not getting the full benefit of SBlades that way.

SBlades doesn't just give you more combo points, it also changes the damage type of all your attacks to Shadow - meaning that all your attacks ignore armor for the duration. Additionally, you get the same number of extra combo points using Shadowstrike with SBlades as you do Backstab

[Tarazet 144]

Subtlety is all about maximizing your burst windows. Shadow Blades is your biggest one, and you're going to spend all of your charges of Shadow Dance plus Vanish while it's active. Otherwise, you're going to use them as needed to avoid wasting them - to take advantage of the artifact weapon effect's energy recovery, to kill a priority add, to take advantage of a trinket proc, and so on. It's open ended which is why it's hard to describe and teach. If you want to use all 3 charges but have at least 45 seconds before Shadow Blades is up again, you can do it. But you don't want to get caught out when your big cooldown is ready.

With 3 points in Soul Shadows, Shadow Blades lasts 24 seconds. If you have relics that can be pushed up another 9 seconds. That's a big window of increased damage.

[chicken 4]

On 5/21/2017 at 9:33 AM, Carrn said:

Why do you do it like that? You're not getting the full benefit of SBlades that way.

SBlades doesn't just give you more combo points, it also changes the damage type of all your attacks to Shadow - meaning that all your attacks ignore armor for the duration. Additionally, you get the same number of extra combo points using Shadowstrike with SBlades as you do Backstab

 

I am new to Sub Rogue and just taking all information in to digest. Some in-game sub rogues have told me to not stack Shadow Blades with Shadow Dance because of overcapping combo points so easily which in the end of a long fight results in a decent DPS loss. Then you mention the armor ignoring DPS buff. So what is the actual proper way to handle the Shadow Blades cooldown?

[Carrn 284]

3 hours ago, chicken said:

 

I am new to Sub Rogue and just taking all information in to digest. Some in-game sub rogues have told me to not stack Shadow Blades with Shadow Dance because of overcapping combo points so easily which in the end of a long fight results in a decent DPS loss. Then you mention the armor ignoring DPS buff. So what is the actual proper way to handle the Shadow Blades cooldown?

Whoever is telling you not to do this is incorrect, and if they would like to come discuss the issue with me they're welcome to.

Using it on cooldown (or for big burst windows, if applicable), and using Shadow Dance with it, is the correct way of doing it.

You have 2 choices for talents as Sub on the 2nd tier of talents: Deeper Stratagem, and Anticipation. For the purposes of this discussion I'm ignoring Vigor, as it is sub-par.

• Deeper Stratagem gives you 6CP max, and allows the use of 6CP finishers. With it, you can store an extra CP, allowing for less waste, and your finishers also get a significant buff when using 6CP over 5CP.
• Anticipation gives 10CP max, but only allows the consumption of 5 at a time, like normal. While this talent would be marginally worse than Deeper Stratagem, the current tier's (T19) set piece gives the potential for an extra 2CP when you use Shadowstrike on a target with Nightblade (which ideally will be every cast), so the overflow protection from Anticipation is very nice. 

Now, in the 6th tier of talents, the best option is generally Premeditation - Alacrity isn't awful but doesn't offer as much benefit, and Enveloping Shadows is really undertuned. This means that your Shadowstrike gives you 2CP instead of 1, which allows a nice and smooth SS > SS > Finisher > SS > SS rotation for Shadow Dance. 

• That translates to: 2CP > 4CP > Dump > 2CP > 4CP. What will likely happen in that rotation is a Shadow Techniques proc, which will likely make your rotation look something more like 3CP > 5CP > Dump > 2CP > 4CP
• For Shadow Blades, it looks like 3CP > 6CP > Dump > 3CP > 6CP

The only time in either one of those that you waste CP is if you get a shadow techniques proc during Shadow Blades, and it would only go to waste if you're using Deeper Stratagem.