Destro 5.4 stat prios

[Waramaur 1]

The reason secondary stats are budgeted above primary is that you get twice as many points for a secondary stat from a gem.  so for example, your previous post listed int at 5.77, and mastery at 2.95.  two points of mastery (5.90) is better than one int. 

 

 

So, by your logic, I should drop the int gems and gem full mastery where I can?

[Caolela 2]

Destruction does NOT suck.  The increase to Incinerate and Chaos Bolt along with the Ember generation increase makes it very solid.  Destro was only 7% behind Aff/Demo before the ember generation increase and that was purely single target.  With just one extra target to hit, Destro matched evenly.  It's a very good spec and is right where it should be.

 

Well for some the jury's still out on that. After I set up differently, I did "OK" with it last night in a guild ToT run and a Flex pug. Not great, not terrible but I'm still evaluating. More guild runs on the new content later this week.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Caolela

[Hurtlocker 11]

The main argument against destro is the scaling issue its the GCD capping.  The legendary meta gem offer better gains to the other two specs as well as the passive haste gains from higher item level gear.  Despite these issues, it does have its fights that it will perform better than the other two.  Not having to run in melee just AOE as demo or trying to ramp up seeds as affliction is nice. 

 

@ Caolela - What are you looking for in a spec for it to be great?  Please don't misunderstand my question as an attack. Just trying to get some insight on how you are evaluating the performance of a spec in comparison to the others.  I think how we evaluate a spec being good can be subjective. 

 

I think we can scheme, crunch numbers, sim and make arguments about which is better all day.  However, the player has to execute which may not reflect exactly what the schemes and sims show.  Just like in Football.  Coaches will scheme, but the players have to play the game. 

[Gravyspasm 70]

along with the Ember generation increase makes it very solid.

i have missed this announcement. when did this change?

[Hurtlocker 11]

It was a hot fix on September 13  http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10932273/54_Hotfixes_September_17-9_17_2013. 

 

Destruction

• Conflagrate now has a 15% chance to generate an additional Burning Ember.
• Incinerate now has a 15% chance to generate an additional Burning Ember

[Zagam 1,982]

The wording is confusing.  It's not an additional Ember...it's an additional emberbit.  If you weren't a part of the Mumble convos, I said about 5 weeks ago the way to fix Destruction was to buff CB, Incinerate, and Conflagrate and bake in the 4pc T15 bonus.  They've done 3 out of 4 of my suggestions lol

[Gravyspasm 70]

It was a hot fix on September 13  http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10932273/54_Hotfixes_September_17-9_17_2013. 

 

Destruction

• Conflagrate now has a 15% chance to generate an additional Burning Ember.
• Incinerate now has a 15% chance to generate an additional Burning Ember

i totally read those before i posted, and i totally spaced out on it.

thanks.

[Caolela 2]

Hurtlocker - I think you answered your own question there, and I discussed it somewhat with Omaric earlier. Surely a spec can't be "great" when its peers have none of the issues that Destro has right now as you said, (GCD, poor scaling, etc.). And these issues are clearly intended by Blizz, as I pointed out they've stated elsewhere about the spec. What they keep doing to the spec, and the numbers, IMO bears that out.

 

I was around 3rd or 5th DPS (or better sometimes) in the guild run last night, so with the hotfixes it's getting better. I'm certainly not the best player, but I'm not bad (usually!), but anyone trying to deflect this to player ability is sort of passing the buck.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Caolela

[Kragermilton 4]

As a person who doesn't really understand these numbers and theory crafting and just want the best PEW PEW he can with his sux skillz, what stat weights do you all recommend to put into AMR?  the current ones are Crit 3, Haste 2.85 then Mastery 2.75.  

[Zagam 1,982]

Reverse those and you're golden.

[Kragermilton 4]

Reverse those and you're golden.

So 3 Mastery, 2.85 haste, and 2.75 crit?

[Omaric 246]

So 3 Mastery, 2.85 haste, and 2.75 crit?

 

He didn't mean exactly those numbers necessarily, but basically the priority should be: Mastery > Haste > Crit.

[Kragermilton 4]

What would those numbers be and/or how would I find those?

[Omaric 246]

Well if you put 3 > 2 > 1 (or 0) respectively it will all turn out gravy.

 

I don't do anything special for my stat weights.  I think about what role I want a certain spec to fill for a given raid or set of raids, then I decide which stats perform best for that given role.  From my perspective, Destruction is very strong in situations with prolonged AoE.  Mastery plays well with killing adds due to increased damage from ember using abilities.  Because you're in an AoE situation, embers generally come in at a steady rate.  Haste comes in second because my other spec, Demonology, does well with it.  Crit is for last, not because it's a bad stat, but because it's just not as good as the other two for the roles both of my specs are filling.

[Kragermilton 4]

Thank you sir, I will do that. 

[Nalar 0]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bloodhoof/Nalar/simple

 

this is my build and the gear i have collected over 5.3 i went heavy haste/crit, (ppl might critisize this but i did more consistant dps than i did with demo in 5.3.)

but just putting a long shot out there with the tier 16 set bonuses maybe AMR is thinking about that, i know its wrong but

just maybe.

i personally ignored the 5.4 demo stats that AMR said and have just carried on what ppl said about 5.3 it works so dont break it.

and to be honest the more ilvl i get the more i try to 'push' my stats and goto edit weights and play about what i can 'push' stat wise with.

regards

           Nalar

[Kragermilton 4]

I wonder if AMR is watching you guys, they now have an option for Multi-target in the builds section. 

[Gravyspasm 70]

 it will all turn out gravy.

 

 

 

and everyone wants Gravy.

 

/bow chika

[Waramaur 1]

I remember reading somewhere that for single target (prolonged), that crit is destro's best stat.  It seems like there is a lot of theory crafting and the patch drop is a little too new for any school of thought to prevail at this point.  I ran SimC (540-1) again and the stat weights changed, so I'm not sure what is up with that.

 

There is another lock (destro) in my guild that is 544 and is still on the haste train from 5.3 and he owns the meters all the time, consistently over 200k dps, I don't eclipse that during a prolonged fight.  So, I either suck, I'm not understanding the stat allocation, or he is just pro.

 

I'm thinking about dropping my lock and going to my feral druid.  I've gone through the destro guide several times and I feel like i'm doing everything it is telling me too, but I'm still lackluster on the charts.  I don't want to be in a group where I'm getting carried as that isn't fair.

[Waramaur 1]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bloodhoof/Nalar/simple

 

this is my build and the gear i have collected over 5.3 i went heavy haste/crit, (ppl might critisize this but i did more consistant dps than i did with demo in 5.3.)

but just putting a long shot out there with the tier 16 set bonuses maybe AMR is thinking about that, i know its wrong but

just maybe.

i personally ignored the 5.4 demo stats that AMR said and have just carried on what ppl said about 5.3 it works so dont break it.

and to be honest the more ilvl i get the more i try to 'push' my stats and goto edit weights and play about what i can 'push' stat wise with.

regards

           Nalar

 

 

AMR does consider T16:

 

PVE: 5.4 DEFAULT BUILD

Hit > Crit > Haste > Mastery

This set of weights is optimal for single-target damage. These weights are optimized for Tier 16 gear and the Legendary Meta Gem. They are also optimal for Tier 15 and near-optimal at lower gear levels. If you see expertise gems suggested, they are not an error. Check our blog for an explanation.

 

PVE: MULTI-TARGET BUILD

Hit > Mastery > Crit > Haste

This set of weights can be better for fights with multiple targets. The assumption is that you can generate extra embers off adds while dps'ing your main target. If the adds are not alive and being hit by Rain of Fire/Immolate while you are doing your DPS burns, you won't see an increase in damage compared to the default weights. Grimoire of Sacrifice will be better with these weights unless you are doing straight AoE via Fire and Brimstone.

 

Maybe it is because I don't have any real T16 to speak of, but I'm having a hard time trusting these explanations.  For instance in the "default build" it says it is still optimal for the t15 build, I feel I did more DPS in haste than I have in Crit or Mastery.  Under multi-target GoSac is said to be better, but then I hear you should be GoSup and use your Observer, then I remember reading from a post on IV that I should be using my Imp with GoSup.

 

I'm really trying to go through all these posts with a fine-tooth comb and extrapolate from all this info the best spec to use, I'm failing....can someone help or is it like i said earlier "too soon to tell".

 

@Nalar - what kind of dps are you putting out with your "criticized" build?  How do you like it?  Have you tried what AMR is suggested for a comparison to your current build?

Edited September 19, 2013 by Waramaur

[Zagam 1,982]

As a guy who has played a Warlock and a Feral druid, I can tell you that Feral Druids have the most intense and complicated DPS rotation out there.  I've seen tons of good Warlocks out there but I can only name you two Feral Druids who have impressed me.

[Caolela 2]

Exactly what I've thought, Waramaur - I haven't trusted AMR's builds straight out of the box for some time now. It's funny when you see them say M>C>H or C>H>M (in "theory"), then see people go something else like M>H>C or stack Haste, or well...flip a coin. I've Simmed and my stats come up C=H>M, but I've gone Mast > Crit and it's not been too bad. Not going to spend a cartload of gold & time again right now to go through the various iterations/possibilities that I did in 5.2-5.3.

 

Sometimes I think nobody has a fucking clue for sure, or if they do they're not letting on and some of this is disinformation. It's why there are so many "what's the stat priority!??" threads around. The whole thing gets annoying.

[Gravyspasm 70]

http://i.imgur.com/PMRdEJD.jpg Edited September 19, 2013 by Gravyspasm

[Zagam 1,982]

http://i.imgur.com/PMRdEJD.jpg

Yeah, that looks about right.  I'm going to get back into kitty Druid...I tried it back in T14 with my alt guild and I was like FUCK THIS SHIT THIS IS AWFUL.  Now that there is a Feral "Affdots" to track Rip and Rake, I might enjoy it a bit.  I think Feral exceeds the threshold of most people able to think on the fly because it has THREE things to keep track of: DoTs, Energy, and Combo Points.  That's more insane than Demonology who has DoTs, DF, and mana because mana is negligible and DF is easy to build and spend.  Feral is just asinine to me.  Like I said, anyone who plays one skillfully earns my utmost respect. 

[Waramaur 1]

As a guy who has played a Warlock and a Feral druid, I can tell you that Feral Druids have the most intense and complicated DPS rotation out there.  I've seen tons of good Warlocks out there but I can only name you two Feral Druids who have impressed me.

 

I hear you loud and clear, but I seem to do better with this toon even at a lower gear level.  Maybe i'm just kicking rocks because I'm tired of sucking lol.

 

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OK, so now i'm REALLY confused.  I just ran SimC (540-1) for the hell of it on the following toons:

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/cho'gall/zagam/simple

 

Stat weights:  (Demo) (Patchwerk DPS 281,847)

Int:         8.17

SP:        6.61

Hit:         8.92

Crit:        3.56

Haste:    4.52

Mastery: 4.33

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/undermine/Kylasyria/simple

 

Stat Weights: (Demo) (Patchwerk DPS 186,713)

Int:         5.42

SP:        4.25

Hit:         5.62

Crit:        2.33

Haste:    3.12

Mastery: 2.99

 

Stat Weights: (Destro) (Patchwerk DPS 184,607)

Int:         5.48

SP:        4.36

Hit:         4.59

Crit:       3.03

Haste:    3.01

Mastery: 3.27

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/undermine/Critolis/simple (the lock in my guild I compare myself too)

 

Stat Weights: (Destro) (Patchwerk DPS 215,805)

Int:        6.28

SP:       4.78

Hit:        5.33

Crit :       3.55

Haste:    2.76

Mastery: 3.20

 

 

Demo's cool down is Mastery

Destro's is Crit

Affliction is Haste

 

Based on the aforementioned CDs for each spec, would an intuitive person think that they should gem/forge pure mastery, crit, and haste respectively?

 

Zagam (demo) is gem/forge for Mastery, but SimC states that he should be gem/forge for haste.

 

Kyla (demo) should gem/forge for haste.

 

Kyla (destro) should gem/forge for mastery.

 

Crit (destro) should gem/forge for crit.

 

I surmise that AMR is an overall an general way to reforge classes, but it guarantees it's results as optimal.  Further, I thought i remember reading they get their results from theory crafters at Elitist Jeks (not sure if they're the standard anymore like in BC).

 

So, does this mean that SimC is more accurate because it weighs things individually based on current gear?  If so, do we follow SimC because it is the "gospel" or is the jury still completely out on absolute stat weights?  It just seems there are too many variables to consider.