bm Should be doing better?

[Blue 0]

Playing my BM hunter, feel like I should be doing better than 7-800k dps with my ilevel. Links to my logs from tonight (several failed attempts at 4th boss before we called it), ToS heroic. Also links to my armoury and wowprogress. If anyone can see something obvious I'm doing wrong please let me know. I did try MM but can't get on with it.

TY in advance xxx

https://www.wowprogress.com/character/eu/silvermoon/Bluemõõn

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/silvermoon/bluemõõn

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/B8c6dY3vMqypnAHZ/

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MvK89QHbzJyWGxZP/ - ToS normal run (before upgraded boots and latest concordance)

[Luthixx 138]

Talents are wrong - either DF/BF or stomp/OWTP with high crit, you've selected a cross between the two and it's not working. Way of the Cobra > Dire Stable in every circumstance, if you have issues with focus gen then you're spamming cobra shot too much and not letting yourself pool enough focus for your BW windows.

Stat priority is off - not enough crit for stomp build, not enough mastery for DF build.

One mediocre legendary.

Your opening rotation needs a lot of work, you almost never got above 1.5m, BM has some of the most powerful, on demand burst in the game - you should be well over 2m, if not higher.

You're averaging between 1.5-2 cobra shots for every KC, not bad but could improve.

Gemming mastery & enchanting haste? Not indicative of any build - either go full crit for stomp, or full mastery for DF.

Poor relics - aim for all 3 slots to have Jaws relics if possible, if not Jaws then a highly rolled Pack or Slithering Serpents.

You have quite a lot to change around before your dps will increase, so in your current state that dps is fine. Please read the BM Hunter guide on this website thoroughly and it'll provide you all the answers you actually need.

 

 

[Khallid 110]

Luthixx is right, one more point is that you really need to avoid versatility. Of particular note is that crafted ring. If you're not aware of this, you can scan the auction house for crafted gear with all stat combinations. Having Versatility on a crafted piece means you chose it on purpose, and you screwed up. Since rings don't give agility, it is twice as bad to have versatility on a ring. Tier pieces are the only ever pieces of gear that can have versatility since it can't be avoided sometimes but the set bonus is greater than the stats.

Edit: Unleash the Beast is a perfectly fine trait for Relics, the multi-shot relic is the only really bad one.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Khallid

[Letha 0]

Luthixx wrote: " Stat priority is off - not enough crit for stomp build, not enough mastery for DF build. "

I'm a little bit irritated, because I don't know where I can find this information. Who much Crit. in % and how much Mastery in % is needed for the new content?  Please dispell the darkness, thanks.

 

[Luthixx 138]

51 minutes ago, Letha said:

I'm a little bit irritated, because I don't know where I can find this information. Who much Crit. in % and how much Mastery in % is needed for the new content?  Please dispell the darkness, thanks.

So, for the stomp/OWTP build, you want at least 30% mastery. 35-38% is optimal, after that it really loses its value.

In terms of mastery, for the DF/BF build, you want as much mastery as possible. When I run my crit build my stats are:

Crit 37% 

Haste 14%

Mastery 80%

And the DF/BF build:

24%

18%

102%

There aren't exact cutoffs but just general guides. This information is either found on this guide or on www.eyesofthebeast.com - a hunter guide written by Bendak, who does the wowhead hunter guide.

[Blue 0]

Thank you for the advice. I have looked at things like bis etc and thought I was doing ok but clearly I've got my lines crossed. I will look at the guides you suggested. Please could you explain briefly the difference between the two builds you've cited and any other tips for one or the other?

Valuable advice thank you

[Sisco 23]

37 minutes ago, Luthixx said:

So, for the stomp/OWTP build, you want at least 30% mastery. 35-38% is optimal, after that it really loses its value.

 

I do believe he means at least 30% Crit 

 

[Khallid 110]

There are no absolute cut-off points, but the stats Luthix wrote are good if you're in that range of ilvl. As you keep earning more gear all the stats need to go up; you don't just stop getting mastery or crit altogether after a certain value. If your stat distribution is perfect you will reach the point where Haste, Crit and Mastery are worth the same, then you just raise ilvl and all of them will raise.

[Sisco 23]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Thank you for the advice. I have looked at things like bis etc and thought I was doing ok but clearly I've got my lines crossed. I will look at the guides you suggested. Please could you explain briefly the difference between the two builds you've cited and any other tips for one or the other?

Valuable advice thank you

I'm sure Luthixx can explain it better but here is how i see it.

 

DF build relies on the T20 set and high mastery, it is a more consistent build as it relies less on wild call procs, it does take a little more finess to play as you need to maximize your uptime and stack of DF espeically during call of the wild to make the most out of it.

 

The "zookeeper build" is greatly boosted by the T19 2p. You prioritize crit on this build for more beasts and as a result, your dps varies depends on the wild call procs. You are constantly throwing animals at the boss. This is a really fun build because of all the beasts. You prioritize crit on this build for more beasts and as a result, your dps varies depends on the wild call procs.

 

The sims that i have seen show both builds really close. This is of course entirely dependent on good gameplay and correct gear. i would say play both and see what you enjoy more/what you are better at.

 

TL;DR

Play what you enjoy

Zookeeper- dps varies based on procs. throw tons of animals at the boss. stack crit. T19 2p favors this build

DF- consistent DPS with fewer pets. must maximise DF uptime. stacks mastery. Favors T20 set bonus

 

Personally i like the constant throwing of animals at the boss, so i will be going with the Zookeeper build until i have to give up my T19 2p. i plan on running 2pT19 and 4pT20 for as long as i can. hopefully, paired with leggy belt/ring, i will can stay in the top BM parses for my ilvl but maybe ill run 4pT20 with leggy shoulders/chest. i will run the sims when i have the gear to see what combo of set bonuses and leggys works best.

 

[Luthixx 138]

11 hours ago, Sisco said:

I do believe he means at least 30% Crit 

 

Yes, thank you for the correction! Late night ramblings on my end there haha.

10 hours ago, Sisco said:

I'm sure Luthixx can explain it better but here is how i see it.

 

DF build relies on the T20 set and high mastery, it is a more consistent build as it relies less on wild call procs, it does take a little more finess to play as you need to maximize your uptime and stack of DF espeically during call of the wild to make the most out of it.

 

The "zookeeper build" is greatly boosted by the T19 2p. You prioritize crit on this build for more beasts and as a result, your dps varies depends on the wild call procs. You are constantly throwing animals at the boss. This is a really fun build because of all the beasts. You prioritize crit on this build for more beasts and as a result, your dps varies depends on the wild call procs.

 

The sims that i have seen show both builds really close. This is of course entirely dependent on good gameplay and correct gear. i would say play both and see what you enjoy more/what you are better at.

 

TL;DR

Play what you enjoy

Zookeeper- dps varies based on procs. throw tons of animals at the boss. stack crit. T19 2p favors this build

DF- consistent DPS with fewer pets. must maximise DF uptime. stacks mastery. Favors T20 set bonus

 

Personally i like the constant throwing of animals at the boss, so i will be going with the Zookeeper build until i have to give up my T19 2p. i plan on running 2pT19 and 4pT20 for as long as i can. hopefully, paired with leggy belt/ring, i will can stay in the top BM parses for my ilvl but maybe ill run 4pT20 with leggy shoulders/chest. i will run the sims when i have the gear to see what combo of set bonuses and leggys works best.

 

I don't have much to add to that, so fantastic explanation!

If your main goal is to have fun, I say go the zoo build, but if you're looking for consistent, regular dps needed for progression dps checks, your main goal should be to get 4pc T20. However, as all your T19 pieces are only 895 ilvl, they'll quickly lose value compared to T20. If your guild is a heroic guild and will only focus on clearing heroic this tier and might take a few weeks or months to get there, try and get 2pc T19 and 4pc T20, but if you plan to go into mythic you'll want T20 asap.

Realistically they're very very similar builds, it's only your tier sets and a few stat changes here and there that can make or break the spec. For example, I have optimal gear for both builds in terms of NH gear, and all I change out is my rings and necklace to go between the stats I outlined above. 

DF will be consistent, it's dps variance will only be 50k - 100k, whereas the zoo build with great procs can do 200k+ higher than what you sim, but with bad procs will go 200k under. In heroic last night we did Maiden and Avatar, and on some attempts I'd be in front by 50m damage at any given point, others I'd be in the middle of the pack, hence why I'm aiming for 4pc T20, far more consistent and I have the BIS leggos to match it.

[Blue 0]

6 hours ago, Luthixx said:

 try and get 2pc T19 and 4pc T20, but if you plan to go into mythic you'll want T20 asap.

Thank you, I got lucky last night and had the legendary chest drop, so I'm currently rolling with that and the belt. I've changed my talents and pushed up my mastery, lost the versatility ring. But with the chest as legendary is it possible to get 2pc T19 and 4pc T20?

My guild is currently only heroic but we look to progress to mythic once we have a stable core team. I don't feel it's fair to join a pug and learn Mythic on someone else's time because I can take a couple of tries to grab mechanics

[Sisco 23]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Thank you, I got lucky last night and had the legendary chest drop, so I'm currently rolling with that and the belt. I've changed my talents and pushed up my mastery, lost the versatility ring. But with the chest as legendary is it possible to get 2pc T19 and 4pc T20?

My guild is currently only heroic but we look to progress to mythic once we have a stable core team. I don't feel it's fair to join a pug and learn Mythic on someone else's time because I can take a couple of tries to grab mechanics

no, you cant run chest with 3 tier bonuses with leggy chest . you have to see what will work best for you at far as chest + belt with either 2pT19+2pT20 OR 4pT19 OR 4pT20 or you can see if maybe the 4p+2p combined with legendaries that dont take up a tier slot provides better damage. I am interested to see if belt/chest with 4pT20 is high enough over 2pT19 4p20T with belt and bracer/ring to justify breaking the 2pT19 in order to run belt/chest or chest/shoulder

[Blue 0]

Well sadly my legendaries are all rubbish except for the belt and chest. If/when I get bracers/ring I can certainly play around with options.

[Sisco 23]

In the same boat. i have shoulders/belt/bracer but since i have no T20 yet i can run shoulders if they sim better. hoping for the ring and chest soon. then it'll get fun.

[Luthixx 138]

18 minutes ago, Blue said:

Well sadly my legendaries are all rubbish except for the belt and chest. If/when I get bracers/ring I can certainly play around with options.

Chest and Belt are BiS by a mile, even with the stomp build they're still awesome, grats on the leggo!

[Khallid 110]

1 hour ago, Luthixx said:

Chest and Belt are BiS by a mile, even with the stomp build they're still awesome, grats on the leggo!

I don't know about that, all the sims I've run switching gear pieces show the stomp build Tier19/Tier20 with the Huntmaster ring and belt doing more dps than the chest and belt, at least for me. I also straight up lose dps if I switch the ring for the chest with the Tier19 4-piece, not losing any set bonuses with the change, so I'm not impressed with the chest at the moment.

[Eyeroll 5]

On 6/27/2017 at 9:13 AM, Sisco said:

no, you cant run chest with 3 tier bonuses with leggy chest . you have to see what will work best for you at far as chest + belt with either 2pT19+2pT20 OR 4pT19 OR 4pT20 or you can see if maybe the 4p+2p combined with legendaries that dont take up a tier slot provides better damage. I am interested to see if belt/chest with 4pT20 is high enough over 2pT19 4p20T with belt and bracer/ring to justify breaking the 2pT19 in order to run belt/chest or chest/shoulder

Most of my T19 is just heroic.  I got a TF T20 head and H T20 gloves so I was running 4pc T19 + 2PC 20 + CotW/Roar/CoF in the raid after that.  But I have to give up 910 H/M socketed gloves to put those crit/vers tier gloves on for a 1.5% damage increase during BW, or get 500 haste and 900 mastery.  Guess I'll be doing a lot of simming..

I ended up keeping the TF T20 helm, and dropping the T19 shoulders/legs as I got H/M from H, and H/M/A WF ToS Boots from the weekly.  

Because of a boot upgrade, my sim is saying 4 19T + 2 20T + 970 roar and 940 prydaz, instead a Qu'pal, and definitely not CotW/Cof.  

Back to the targets...

Edited June 28, 2017 by Eyeroll