Curious about your Victories/Defeats

[Caldyrvan 377]

I know some say this game is totally RNG, others say you need skill or it's is just pay to win.

I think the truth is a bit of everything, but that's not what I wanted to ask.

How many of your games do you win/lose because you played better/worse than your opponent?

And how often do you win/lose just because you (don't)have the better cards or right cards in the right moment?

[SithLordOfSnark 78]

I often only lose because I got screwed by that last draw. Opponent is at four health, I have 6 cards in my deck that will win the game and I can't draw a single one.

[Caldyrvan 377]

I know when you lose you feel like the world is against you even though you did everything right and when you win than because you are the better player :D

But seriously I have a lot of games like these: I would win next round and from all the cards left in my opponents deck he draws the one that kills me and same the other way, my opponent would kill me next round and maybe he played better as well and I know I only have one or two cards left in my deck that would help me and wounder I draw a fireball and win.

[Mursilis 34]

Of course there are always those games where your opponent gets the perfect start, and you know you've lost by turn 3.  That's partly RNG, but also deck creation choices come into play as well along with just getting the worst possible matchup (Mill Rogue vs Jade Druid for example).

[Allegro 40]

I think the games where I win/lose because of RNG tend to stand out in my mind more than others.  I've definitely lost a few games where an opponent's Yogg blew away my defense, but I've also won a few where their Yogg instantly killed himself. 

 

[Caldyrvan 377]

I think the games I win/lose because of RNG are even more or less. The thing is losing this way feels more bad than getting just beaten (even if it's just a dull hunter in round 3 or 4) and the games won this way feel like "not really deserved" or "not really earned".

Edited June 28, 2017 by Caldyrvan

[Esthirel 15]

8 hours ago, Caldyrvan said:

I think the games I win/lose because of RNG are even more or less. The thing is losing this way feels more bad than getting just beaten (even if it's just a dull hunter in round 3 or 4) and the games won this way feel like "not really deserved" or "not really earned".

Yeah so what does RNG bring us?You say that in the end we all get about the same amount  of times feeling like RNG stole the win for you and of course also the same amount of times you get robbed of the win by RNG. So...RNG is not really influencing your stats it only gives you a messed up feeling in a huge part of the matches you play. ... Extraooordinary

Luck of the draw is of course a part of all card games but the random effects coming with the cards are messing with your game so bad that it makes you feel bad. Yogg is of course the big RNG god. He is so over the top and brings the right amount of BS that might give it the right to be in the game. Almost all other unnecessary RNG effect is unwanted if you ask me.

We want the game to benchmark our intelligence rather than entertain us as if we were all 4 year olds..

Edited June 28, 2017 by Esthirel
style error

[Allegro 40]

Part of the game is definitely managing RNG in your favor. 

Like this thread about Evolve shaman:  https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/31502-the-evolve-list/

Knowing and understanding statistics like that helps you move your game from "hope for the best" to managing things to better possible outcomes. 

 

[Caldyrvan 377]

I understand what you mean and you are not wrong with that but it's a bit euphemized.

I know you can calculate something, know probabilities, know which cards can be discovered which not etc, but in the end it's a gamble.

I am totally ok with some RNG in a card game but currently it's a bit too much (just my opinion )

I am not whining I just wish all would be a bit more skill based than it is.

[positiv2 953]

I would be very happy if the RNG was reduced to discover effects and card draw, but we all know that it's not going to happen. The (ultra-)casuals who make up majority of the playerbase don't mind, and they might even enjoy the RNG. After all, IIRC hearthstone is still more popular than Gwent, Magic Duels (it's even getting cancelled) or RuneScape Legends (love this one), all having less RNG than HS. 

[Esthirel 15]

Dude, Im trying those 2 low-RNG hearthstone-ish games right now :D

Immediately I'm having visions of games where you can win by remembering like 50 cards and then win because of your scary good brain. Like the game that will be owned by the greatest autist (Kripp? or that way too serious german guy haha) :D:D:D

[VaraTreledees 138]

It is hard to say how many games you lose due to bad rng, or how many games you win because of good rng.  I got blew out recently by a quest rogue who swashburgled an ice block, I was quite unhappy.  I also lost to a mage who played absolutely terribly but was carried off the back of a prince malchezared Yogg and a malchezared harrison ford who thought my atiesh belonged in a museum.  Ultimately I think your place on the ladder is both a reflection of how much time you are willing to commit to climbing and your skill at the game, no one gets to legend by being bad at this game, or getting "lucky".  Over the course of a large number of games your skill will always have a far higher contributing factor to your place on the ladder then your luck or lack there of.

[BradsGaming 4]

There are definite moments where it is a loss from RNG... like when I have 7 minions on board, they brawl and win... but usually its just the fact that the deck I am playing is weak to the opponents and I have a slim chance to win from the start.

[Karayan7 38]

On 6/29/2017 at 9:53 PM, Caldyrvan said:

I am totally ok with some RNG in a card game but currently it's a bit too much (just my opinion )

Couldn't agree more on that.Since RNG is a plausible influence factor for the outcome of a game and pay-to-win gives some considerable advantage, it is more than normal that 2/3 of the HS players complain about unfair and uncontrollable win/lose ratio. Sometimes it isn't just enough to consider your deck formation skills or try to adapt to every change of the game.

[Esthirel 15]

Where it comes to win/lose ratio I lose more than I win but that's because I love to mess around with cards like medivh and Nzoth and make all kind of experimental decks. Climbing the ladder is sure done with like 58% winrate. Find a deck that makes the matches finish fast and that wins like 6 of 10 games...reach rank 5 and then mess around with Medivh and Nzoth :)

So no...it's not all RNG. When you give winning prio 1 and rly try  you win way more than you lose.

edit: Spiritsinger Umbra  into living mana....thats ramping 5 mana crystals. It works once  in every 8 matches but when it does...gotta love it. RNG makes games original and exciting sometimes too. or...creating a 14/15 galvadon with divine shield and windfury is also heeps of fun.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Esthirel

[Karayan7 38]

Gotta sound bizarre but i 've yet to see rank 15 or higher...Maybe because i don't have the opportunity to use the suggested decks i find around.Talking about pay-to-win...

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Karayan7 said:

Gotta sound bizarre but i 've yet to see rank 15 or higher...Maybe because i don't have the opportunity to use the suggested decks i find around.Talking about pay-to-win...

I kind of agree. If you are new to Hearthstone it is next to impossible to be competitive without investing (quite a lot of) money.

Hearthstone can be free to play - if you play it since a long time.

Luckily there is arena. If you play better then the average arena is a great way to get packs cheap. And it eleminates the problems you get with owning a small card pool. But if you are new to Hearthstone chances are high you won't be that sucessful in arena.

If you played for a while, if you have an idea which card exists and if you get the feeling that you play decently - give arena a try.

After a few runs you will see if arena nets you some profits or if not.

(At the moment arena is especially cool, because you get a free win. Which is great.)

[Karayan7 38]

1 hour ago, WedgeAntilles said:

Hearthstone can be free to play - if you play it since a long time.

This has become clear to me since the very beginning and of course i do not pretend to rise to legend with cheap decks and sheer luck,that is out of the question.I have been playing HS for less than a year and regularly for less than 6 months,so you can also call me a noob!

The thing is that i try to learn from my mistakes and adapt as much as i can but the process seems to be really long.It's obvious that some financial investment is also necessary if you want to climb up the ladder.

As for the Arena, i have added to regular use some draft help software but still the results are poor (best run was a priest with 5 wins),usually i get wiped out with 2 wins,some other times with absolute nothing!Any drafting tips are also awfully welcome!

One mistake i learned about quite painfully,was to erase the doubles from my collection.Now i keep at least 2 of every possible card!It's hard to get dust but i work on it...!

 

[Guest]

Using drafting software is good. Personally I rely on them in around 95%. If you follow the suggestions I'd say you don't do much wrong on the drafting part. (There are just a few cards which I feel aren't perfectly balanced - Kazakus e.g. I got him and he got a quite high rating. But I already had 2 (or even 3?) cards more then once. Is he still a good choice? Or Stonehill Defender - in a paladin deck it is one of the best possible cards you can be offered imo. But in most runs I just go with the suggested cards. Not much you can improve in the drafting IMO.)

What class do you play in arena? Each meta has some classes that are stronger then others. Just by choosing let's say warrior over rogue your statistically estimated wins will drop.

With an average of let's say 2 wins arena isn't a great investment for you (if you only look at what you gain from arena. If you just enjoy playing arena (personally I like it a lot!) the entry fee can be perfectly invested of course).

[Esthirel 15]

On 30-7-2017 at 7:49 PM, Karayan7 said:

The thing is that i try to learn from my mistakes and adapt as much as i can but the process seems to be really long.It's obvious that some financial investment is also necessary if you want to climb up the ladder.

As for the Arena, i have added to regular use some draft help software but still the results are poor (best run was a priest with 5 wins),usually i get wiped out with 2 wins,some other times with absolute nothing!Any drafting tips are also awfully welcome!

 

Arena results get better all the time but it's a slow proces. Experience is of big influence on Arena matches. Just keep trying and analyze your matches with for example HS decktracker. You also get insight in which class suits you best or against which class you are vulnerable.. HS Decktracker also makes you aware of your progression and thats a major motivational boost I think. It makes you a little bit more self-secure when playing. Never play HS when you're afraid to lose. Confidence is very important somehow and it will improve through experience.

And the drafting-software isn't always right. Its always good to let it advice you but it's not deciding for you.Evaluate every card that is being offered. The cards have to be good for you not for the average of all players. That is not you. You know which cards you need to play the game in a way that works for you.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Esthirel

[Karayan7 38]

21 minutes ago, Esthirel said:

Arena results get better all the time but it's a slow proces. Experience is of big influence on Arena matches. Just keep trying and analyze your matches with for example HS decktracker. You also get insight in which class suits you best or against which class you are vulnerable.. HS Decktracker also makes you aware of your progression and thats a major motivational boost I think. It makes you a little bit more self-secure when playing. Never play HS when you're afraid to lose. Confidence is very important somehow and it will improve through experience.

And the drafting-software isn't always right. Its always good to let it advice you but it's not deciding for you.Evaluate every card that is being offered. The cards have to be good for you not for the average of all players. That is not you. You know which cards you need to play the game in a way that works for you.

Thank you for the friendly advice!As a matter of fact i have started using more the Deck Tracker and analyzing my plays.With the addition of the new expansion it all gets a little more difficult (haven't worked out Un' Goro yet) but it also gives me motivation to go deeper and refine my play.The community here is helping a lot too and i am thankful for that!Cheerz!

[Esthirel 15]

10 minutes ago, Karayan7 said:

Thank you for the friendly advice!As a matter of fact i have started using more the Deck Tracker and analyzing my plays.With the addition of the new expansion it all gets a little more difficult (haven't worked out Un' Goro yet) but it also gives me motivation to go deeper and refine my play.The community here is helping a lot too and i am thankful for that!Cheerz!

For the current meta I can say that it works for me to play arena with the classes that i figured out so far. I used to play Rogue, Paladin and Mage a lot in arena but in the frozen throne II'm playing Druid, Warlock and Priest! Nobody knows all the cards yet so pick the class that you played the most until now.

I think the new 10 mana ultimate infestation card from Druid will win you the game if you're not already going down before that. I love that card..also warlock 10 mana doom card wins me the match and the abyssal enforcer is incredibly strong. Some cards are so underrated. Choose f.e. always cult master because it will help you playing the cards in your deck. Heartharena values it at 61 points...that is so not right. Icy Veins puts it in the "good"categpry..that would be between 70 and 80 points. That is better.

But let me assure you cult master is a 100+ points arena card. Why? Because it hands you your other cards so you can choose more and play more cards.  Playing your cards is the goal of the game ;)

Ow yea and choose as much vicious fledgelings as possible. More is better.

Good luck!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Esthirel said:

For the current meta I can say that it works for me to play arena with the classes that i figured out so far. I used to play Rogue, Paladin and Mage a lot in arena but in the frozen throne II'm playing Druid, Warlock and Priest! Nobody knows all the cards yet so pick the class that you played the most until now.

I think the new 10 mana ultimate infestation card from Druid will win you the game if you're not already going down before that. I love that card..also warlock 10 mana doom card wins me the match and the abyssal enforcer is incredibly strong. Some cards are so underrated. Choose f.e. always cult master because it will help you playing the cards in your deck. Heartharena values it at 61 points...that is so not right. Icy Veins puts it in the "good"categpry..that would be between 70 and 80 points. That is better.

But let me assure you cult master is a 100+ points arena card. Why? Because it hands you your other cards so you can choose more and play more cards.  Playing your cards is the goal of the game ;)

Ow yea and choose as much vicious fledgelings as possible. More is better.

Good luck!

Hehe, funny, your first post (pick what works for you) and this post fit perfectly for me:

I agree an fledgeling, he is very good. (Daring Reporter too btw, generally speaking: Cards that get stronger if they aren't removed. Because in arena decks often aren't perfect, sometimes removing something can be very difficult)

Ultimate Infestion is insane, no doubt about it. (IMO the strongest card ever printed in Hearthstone. Totally imbalanced.)

 

But your Cult Master doesn't work for me, I don't like him much. Personally I rate him at something around 60 - 70, but definitly not at 100.

Why? Because he needs a setup to be useful.

Way too often I just can't make use of him. Sure, if your board is full of small minions, then he is awesome.

Or in another phrase: If you are already winning, he ensures you win big.

Don't get me wrong, he isn't a crap card, there are tons of cards worse.

But there are tons of cards way better too IMO.

[Esthirel 15]

On 12-8-2017 at 11:23 AM, WedgeAntilles said:

Hehe, funny, your first post (pick what works for you) and this post fit perfectly for me:

I agree an fledgeling, he is very good. (Daring Reporter too btw, generally speaking: Cards that get stronger if they aren't removed. Because in arena decks often aren't perfect, sometimes removing something can be very difficult)

Ultimate Infestion is insane, no doubt about it. (IMO the strongest card ever printed in Hearthstone. Totally imbalanced.)

 

But your Cult Master doesn't work for me, I don't like him much. Personally I rate him at something around 60 - 70, but definitly not at 100.

Why? Because he needs a setup to be useful.

Way too often I just can't make use of him. Sure, if your board is full of small minions, then he is awesome.

Or in another phrase: If you are already winning, he ensures you win big.

Don't get me wrong, he isn't a crap card, there are tons of cards worse.

But there are tons of cards way better too IMO.

Ok that is a different perspective on the Cult Master that certainly exposes an exisiting downside of it. I always pick it because I like the promise of a lot of card draw and I want to dedicate  a good part of my game to that. When it works it gives a big advantage but of course there are games where it goes down without drawing any card at all.

True true. Its rating can be at 87 for the  normal HS player now i thought it over. For me personally it's a card that often suits my gameplan so I tend to pick it above most other cards.

The Vicious Fledgeling is a card that can win matches on its own after being coined on turn 2.. A daring reporter hardly ever manages to do that. A guess I like to gamble some more with risky but dangerous minions..Everybody has its favorable style ofcourse.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Esthirel

[Caldyrvan 377]

Big cards and luck made it ^^

I just had 5 games in a row where I played Prince Keleseth first or second round, won all the games. Two vs the same opponent (s)he was raging, I am sure :D But only two of the five games were fun the other three games I simply steamrolled my opponent ... quite boring.