Is Stomp = Dire Frenzy?

[Hunterdrizzt 0]

Hi fellow hunters.

More to invite discussion than asking for any specific help.

Recently been experimenting between the dire frenzy build and the stomp build in ToS, going in with the expectation that the dire frenzy build would win in terms of dps. A few runs on a training dummy/ sims showed very little difference between the two (screenshot attached, albeit with a few gear upgrades since i last raided), so I thought I'd give the stomp build a go in a raid.

I was actually amazed by the difference it made in my dps. Stomp turned out to be miles better in the raid than dire frenzy was. On goroth heroic went from 850k the previous week to 980k this week. Similar effect of harjatan. The only scenario where dire frenzy was even close was heavy aoe on mistress sasszine. Very little gear difference between the two runs, certainly not enough to account for >100k dps. (For those interested: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/13743279/13#difficulty=4&class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&metric=dps)

Stomp certainly felt more fun to play, and less punishing if you miss a cast, unlike dire frenzy where you lose your stacks which has a big hit on dps.

The suprising thing is im not using the soul of the huntmaster or any T19.

So a few questions:

Is stomp better for me because of my gear? Lots of crit with bracers/mantle.

Blind luck? (Unlikely)

I'm terrible at dire frenzy? (More likely)

Dire frenzy will scale much better with gear?

Thanks for your time :)

 

[Vaylen 0]

Hi the issue is when Azorthorian did his sims simulation craft was bugged, this bug has now been fixed bendak from the site 'eyes of the beast' goes into these findings in more detail its no longer a case dire frenzy is best but a case of play whatever build you prefer,  with stomp build the tier set ie tier 19 can also compete with the tier 20 set.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Vaylen

[Khallid 110]

Hmmmm, you're not using any tier 19, so it's odd that you do more dps with Stomp... and I don't have a good idea of what dps you should be doing without tier 19 for a given item level. However but 850k with Dire Frenzy still sounds low for you, especially considering your sims. So, I would say that a big factor would be that you were doing something wrong using Dire Frenzy. It is true that using Stomp you don't have to care about stacking the buff of Dire Frenzy.

Your stats and legendaries definitely are better suited to use the Stomp build. The high Crit and low Haste work a lot better with One With the Pack than Bestial Fury. Given that you don't have the legendary belt, Haste is much much better than Crit when using Dire Frenzy and Bestial Wrath.

[Luthixx 138]

Since you no longer have any T19 gear equipped, I recommend changing out some items to bring your crit down and your haste & mastery up and swap back to DF. Realistically, at your 850k isn't awful if it's at the end of say a 5-6 minute fight, but I would imagine that's down to less than optimal execution of the rotation. Make sure you're spreading out your DF casts and really pooling your focus for BW (especially since you're yet to get the belt). DF with T20 should perform on par with T19 & stomp, so if you're seeing higher dps with stomp and no T19 it's likely you're missing some key parts of your rotation with DF.

[Khallid 110]

43 minutes ago, Luthixx said:

Realistically, at your 850k isn't awful if it's at the end of say a 5-6 minute fight

We're going to disagree on that.

 

To be fair, I think you need to practice how to use Dire Frenzy before you actually raid with it, otherwise just keep using Stomp.

If you have tier 19 pieces in the bank, I think the best scenario for you is to equip the tier 19 2-piece and switch legendaries accordingly so you don't drop the tier 20.

[Luthixx 138]

13 hours ago, Khallid said:

We're going to disagree on that.

 

To be fair, I think you need to practice how to use Dire Frenzy before you actually raid with it, otherwise just keep using Stomp.

If you have tier 19 pieces in the bank, I think the best scenario for you is to equip the tier 19 2-piece and switch legendaries accordingly so you don't drop the tier 20.

For the first part, realistically 850k isn't going to be a top 10 parse but I've raided with plenty worse. I mean, if you're simming for a million and only hitting 850k there are some major execution issues there, but it's not awful. Mechanics change a lot of things.

DF is quite an easy build to play, just pay attention to your buffs and watch the timer on DF to see how long it has left before using a second charge, try and make sure you have that extra attack speed stacking up over time and not spending ages letting it drop off.

I don't think having 2pc T19 and 4pc T20 is the best option unless you've got the Huntmaster ring. DF will generally give you more consistent results across the board, and will be significantly better on fights like Mistress where you have heavy AoE continually. 

I would still recommend sorting out your stats if you're going to run 4pc T20. If you're lucky and get the huntmaster ring you can swap out to 2pc T19 as well if it's not going to be a massive ilvl drop.

[Hunterdrizzt 0]

Yeah I'm aware that my gear is badly optimized. So much versatility. I do actually have all of the BM legendaries, I just don't have any purple bracers to swap the legendary ones for.

I can get a lot more haste by changing to the chest/belt at the cost of a lot of crit - think I drop down from 31% crit to 26%, but go up to 18% haste. Thats assuming i get some crit/haste bracers soon.

When I was playing DF i was waiting until there was < 1 second on the buff before recasting, I think the problem I had with it was it would drop off while I was focusing on mechanics.

I think I'll carry on with Stomp for the moment, its more fun to play. Maybe switch back to DF when I've changed some of my worse gear pieces.

[Banard 61]

On 09/07/2017 at 4:10 AM, Hunterdrizzt said:

So a few questions:

Is stomp better for me because of my gear? Lots of crit with bracers/mantle.

Blind luck? (Unlikely)

I'm terrible at dire frenzy? (More likely)

Dire frenzy will scale much better with gear?

Thanks for your time :)

 

I have been on vacation...back and behind the eight ball and doing me own research. And after looking around a bit i keep thinking of: 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/182/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery

Count the stomps vs dire frenzy. I am thinking there is an issue the sims and DF....but its been two weeks...maybe things will change. It appears the ideal situation is 2 t19 (mythic ilevel) and 4 T20 and the stomp build. 

then there is garbage like: 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2048

and 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2036

we need a buff, not a major one but the nerf bat was to hard after they made DB/DF 2 stacks base line. 

[Khallid 110]

1 hour ago, Banard said:

Count the stomps vs dire frenzy. I am thinking there is an issue the sims and DF....but its been two weeks...maybe things will change. It appears the ideal situation is 2 t19 (mythic ilevel) and 4 T20 and the stomp build. 

Even if you choose to go Dire Frenzy, keeping 2 pieces of Tier 19 is still better than picking a legendary that won't let you use it.

Personally I get about the same dps with Stomp and Dire Frenzy. After tinkering with it for a few weeks I ended liking DIre Frenzy + Blink Strikes the most (using the Huntmaster ring).

It's also interesting to note that the Stomp build has a higher degree of RNG. I bet the top 10 parses are lucky pulls that skew the numbers a bit higher.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Khallid

[Banard 61]

4 hours ago, Khallid said:

 

It's also interesting to note that the Stomp build has a higher degree of RNG. I bet the top 10 parses are lucky pulls that skew the numbers a bit higher.

its the majority of top BM ranks...which says something in itself.