wow ToS Race Day16: KJ Longest Living Boss Since Cata

[Starym 3,800]

 

Kil'jaeden outlives Archimonde, 7 guilds have downed Fallen Avatar, Method's WF Avatar video and more.

It's official, Kil'jaeden has outlived his boss, Archimonde! Now sure, that's already happened in the lore, but this time it's progress-race canon as well. Archimonde was the holder of the "lived the longest since Cataclysm" title until just now, as his record of staying alive for 16 days has been broken by the Deceiver just a few minutes ago.

It was Method that got the Defiler down back in Hellfire Citadel almost exactly 2 years ago and they seem poised to take down the Deceiver as well, possibly on the anniversary of Archimonde's death? The next "longest lived boss" on the list KJ might set his eyes on is Al'Akir from the Throne of the Four Winds in Cataclysm, but that particular record will almost certainly not be toppled, as the Windlord eluded death for a whopping 42 days before Paragon ended him on January 24th, 2011.

Meanwhile, we've had 4 new applicants to the Kil'jaeden killer job listing since the last time we checked in, with Chinese guild Style War getting the World 4th, Asia 2nd (with 839 wipes, in the second reset), ScrubBusters finishing off the top 5 with with their EU 3rd (and only 364 wipes - due to their more relaxed raiding schedule, the increased item level from the third reset and the videos having been released). Memento are currently in 6th/EU 4th and the most recent Avatar kill was AFK R in 7th/Asia 3rd. While it's still most likely that Method will be the ones carrying home the gold in the Tomb of Sargeras Mythic progress race, with 6 other guilds at the final boss with three resets' worth of gear, and the several nerfs/fixes Kil'jaeden has gotten over time, it's still anyone's race!

We also got Method's World First Fallen Avatar kill, featuring 5 rogues:

And that's about it for today's race update/history lesson. Big red has eluded death for now and more and more guilds are piling up on his doorstep. If you're getting really anxious about him dying, you can always check out the live coverage over at Method.gg and find out exactly when the Deceiver dies and that green bar gets filled up to the end!

[DeathsDesign 92]

I know a lot of people will not agree but i'm actually glad that Kil'Jaeden is still alive for a few reasons.

 

Lorewise K'J is a badass and would be a handful for any group of people to take down.  I mean if it were so easy Khadgar would have killed him long ago.

The raid difficulty is Mythic and by definition it is exaggerated.  I mean in my mind Normal difficulty is the average player, Heroic difficulty is the player that knows how to better themselves and can push forward.  Mythic difficulty is what it's shaping up to be, untouchable by most and killable by a handful.

It shows that blizzard can still make things a true challenge.  Looking back there were plenty of raid bosses that have eclipsed the current timeline before they were downed due to difficulty.  Some needed nerfs to be killed (C'thun, being the biggest example), but some weren't nerfed before they were downed (4HM in Naxx comes to mind).

 

Now personally I don't ever expect to see Mythic Kil'Jaeden.  I don't have the time to put into pushing myself that hard, nor do I want to.  Seeing the downing of a few mythic bosses i'm ok with, however I feel like things have been so easy for the casual gamer lately that it's refreshing to see a challenge for the hardcore gamer.

 

On the flipside I can completely understand why with the top guilds being who they are and as good as they are Kil'Jaeden being alive still is frustrating due to overtuning.

I just hope personally that he's killed before any nerfs to his fight, because that truly would be an achievement.

[Starym 3,800]

6 minutes ago, DeathsDesign said:

I know a lot of people will not agree but i'm actually glad that Kil'Jaeden is still alive for a few reasons.

 

Lorewise K'J is a badass and would be a handful for any group of people to take down.  I mean if it were so easy Khadgar would have killed him long ago.

The raid difficulty is Mythic and by definition it is exaggerated.  I mean in my mind Normal difficulty is the average player, Heroic difficulty is the player that knows how to better themselves and can push forward.  Mythic difficulty is what it's shaping up to be, untouchable by most and killable by a handful.

It shows that blizzard can still make things a true challenge.  Looking back there were plenty of raid bosses that have eclipsed the current timeline before they were downed due to difficulty.  Some needed nerfs to be killed (C'thun, being the biggest example), but some weren't nerfed before they were downed (4HM in Naxx comes to mind).

 

Now personally I don't ever expect to see Mythic Kil'Jaeden.  I don't have the time to put into pushing myself that hard, nor do I want to.  Seeing the downing of a few mythic bosses i'm ok with, however I feel like things have been so easy for the casual gamer lately that it's refreshing to see a challenge for the hardcore gamer.

 

On the flipside I can completely understand why with the top guilds being who they are and as good as they are Kil'Jaeden being alive still is frustrating due to overtuning.

I just hope personally that he's killed before any nerfs to his fight, because that truly would be an achievement.

Oh I totally agree with you and I'm glad he's still alive as well, I just wish he was alive due to "fair" difficulty instead of artificial blocks and bugs (if you believe the top guilds that is).

[DeathsDesign 92]

Also I think there should be a separate achievement for killing Mythic Kil'Jaedan pre-nerf.  An achievement called "You are prepared..."  It should be a feat of strength that he was killed before any tuning changes were made to his fight.

[huldu 3]

Let's just be honest here for a moment, the only reason they are struggling is because the encounter has a "check" system. It clearly means they aren't geared for it yet. However these guilds just go and go at a boss until it dies unlike random pugs/guilds that disband after a couple of wipes. Once each player increases their item level it becomes easier and easier. Even a fairly casual guild can down mythic bosses into the expansion because it's all about gear at that point. They already know the encounters and mechanics behind them at that point it's all about GEAR.

 

That has NOTHING to do with difficulty, that's all MMO grinding my friend.

[Dvanom 34]

8 hours ago, huldu said:

Let's just be honest here for a moment, the only reason they are struggling is because the encounter has a "check" system. It clearly means they aren't geared for it yet. However these guilds just go and go at a boss until it dies unlike random pugs/guilds that disband after a couple of wipes. Once each player increases their item level it becomes easier and easier. Even a fairly casual guild can down mythic bosses into the expansion because it's all about gear at that point. They already know the encounters and mechanics behind them at that point it's all about GEAR.

 

That has NOTHING to do with difficulty, that's all MMO grinding my friend.

I agree. The Guilds are just whining because the boss is more old school, not just to be wrecked in one shot with the other bosses.

I'm not taking part in the race but it's a lot more fun to see that it isn't a matter of 1 reset.

[bigtim1990 1]

I know this is a bit nit picky. But I would like to clarify that Archimonde is NOT, Kil'jaedens boss. Archimonde was in fact KJ's apprentice from before the eredar were integrated into the legion. He was promoted to his position and rose in power along with KJ after Velen fled with the rebellious draenei.

[Starym 3,800]

5 hours ago, bigtim1990 said:

I know this is a bit nit picky. But I would like to clarify that Archimonde is NOT, Kil'jaedens boss. Archimonde was in fact KJ's apprentice from before the eredar were integrated into the legion. He was promoted to his position and rose in power along with KJ after Velen fled with the rebellious draenei.

Yea I already got my lore ass handed to me over on facebook and you're right :D Failed my lore check like a noob, but I was mostly thinking in terms of how they were presented in the games themselves as Archi was always more of the big bad than KJ.

[Starym 3,800]

15 hours ago, huldu said:

Let's just be honest here for a moment, the only reason they are struggling is because the encounter has a "check" system. It clearly means they aren't geared for it yet. However these guilds just go and go at a boss until it dies unlike random pugs/guilds that disband after a couple of wipes. Once each player increases their item level it becomes easier and easier. Even a fairly casual guild can down mythic bosses into the expansion because it's all about gear at that point. They already know the encounters and mechanics behind them at that point it's all about GEAR.

 

That has NOTHING to do with difficulty, that's all MMO grinding my friend.

Here's the thing, if that's the case then fine, I can totally accept that. BUT the problem here is, and this is something that only people that play/ed in the very top guilds can know, sometimes bosses aren't just overtuned but are actually impossible due to bugs and mechanics that are either purposefully or accidentally made so that you literally can not do them until they are changed. Blizzard has already changed several things about the KJ fight (and only one of them was public in the hotfixes) and we don't really know if those were just tweaks or of some (or all) of those made the fight even possible.

If we're to believe what the guilds are saying the guy was impossible before this reset and I VERY much doubt it had anything to do with just 1 reset's worth of gear. We'll get the full story after progress, so I guess we'll see.

[DeathsDesign 92]

5 hours ago, bigtim1990 said:

I know this is a bit nit picky. But I would like to clarify that Archimonde is NOT, Kil'jaedens boss. Archimonde was in fact KJ's apprentice from before the eredar were integrated into the legion. He was promoted to his position and rose in power along with KJ after Velen fled with the rebellious draenei.

The apprentice thing is new to me.  I know that before Sargeras brought the opportunity to join him to Argus there were three leaders of Argus.  These leaders were Velen, Archimonde, and Kil'Jaeden.  The Triumvirate is what they were called if i'm not mistaken.  To me that leads me to believe there was no apprenticeship.  Once Velen left Argus and turned his back on his fellow leaders Archimonde became Sargeras's left hand and became the commander of the Burning Legion forces, while Kil'Jaeden on the other hand focused his abilities on assimilating as many races and worlds into the  Burning Legion as possible.  While they had different roles they still held the same title and rank to Sargeras as his Lieutenants.

[Starym 3,800]

28 minutes ago, DeathsDesign said:

The apprentice thing is new to me.  I know that before Sargeras brought the opportunity to join him to Argus there were three leaders of Argus.  These leaders were Velen, Archimonde, and Kil'Jaeden.  The Triumvirate is what they were called if i'm not mistaken.  To me that leads me to believe there was no apprenticeship.  Once Velen left Argus and turned his back on his fellow leaders Archimonde became Sargeras's left hand and became the commander of the Burning Legion forces, while Kil'Jaeden on the other hand focused his abilities on assimilating as many races and worlds into the  Burning Legion as possible.  While they had different roles they still held the same title and rank to Sargeras as his Lieutenants.

They do keep changing and adding  stuff all the time though, it's part of the reason I've given up on caring about the lore pretty much. The Chronicle straight up retconned a bunch of stuff because it didn't fit their current storyline, although tbh it's been happening since the beginning with BC and the eredar/dranei story so I guess changing canon is as canon as canon can be at this point :D

[DeathsDesign 92]

7 minutes ago, Starym said:

They do keep changing and adding  stuff all the time though, it's part of the reason I've given up on caring about the lore pretty much. The Chronicle straight up retconned a bunch of stuff because it didn't fit their current storyline, although tbh it's been happening since the beginning with BC and the eredar/dranei story so I guess changing canon is as canon as canon can be at this point :D

Very true, and to be honest I hate when companies do this because it takes away from the story and feel.  Example, there's a story somewhere that I read about an Elf?? Hunter of some kind (might be demon hunter in the old sense, might be true hunter, or something) that for eons fought Sargeras and chased him in and out of the twisting nether.  She was finally able to almost kill him until he retreated into the nether again and disappeared.  Now the lore is that Broxigar cut his leg.  The other story just gave a better feel to the lore imo.

[MrEdren 114]

1 hour ago, DeathsDesign said:

Very true, and to be honest I hate when companies do this because it takes away from the story and feel.  Example, there's a story somewhere that I read about an Elf?? Hunter of some kind (might be demon hunter in the old sense, might be true hunter, or something) that for eons fought Sargeras and chased him in and out of the twisting nether.  She was finally able to almost kill him until he retreated into the nether again and disappeared.  Now the lore is that Broxigar cut his leg.  The other story just gave a better feel to the lore imo.

Said elf is the new Big Bad after 7.3, likely after killing her husband off.