gabrieloceano 1 Report post Posted September 28, 2013 Hello guys!!! Is there any situation where Grimmoire of Sacrifice is a better choice than the others? Thank you!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twona 1 Report post Posted September 29, 2013 I use it for fights like H Sha where i can absorb swelling pride every minute with Sac Pact, since Sac Pact isnt really worth it without GoSac. I also took the talent duo for soaking mines in H Iron Juggernaut Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazistrasz 216 Report post Posted September 29, 2013 I use it for fights like H Sha where i can absorb swelling pride every minute with Sac Pact, since Sac Pact isnt really worth it without GoSac. I also took the talent duo for soaking mines in H Iron Juggernaut In what way is sac pact not worth it without GoSac? Use GoSac for fights when you're going to be getting a lot of chaos bolts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JvChequer 43 Report post Posted September 29, 2013 I Think with KTT Gosac pulls a bit ahead of Gosup at Single target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lockybalboa 618 Report post Posted September 29, 2013 In what way is sac pact not worth it without GoSac? 380k shield Vs. 720k shield. One sacs pet, the other sacs you. Personally I find it more useful when I'm running GoSac, but I also use it when running GoSup because SL sucks a fat one now that it kills my pet ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twona 1 Report post Posted September 29, 2013 380k shield Vs. 720k shield. One sacs pet, the other sacs you. Personally I find it more useful when I'm running GoSac, but I also use it when running GoSup because SL sucks a fat one now that it kills my pet ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME. The 350k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty awful. If rather have 20% passive and deal with pet deaths. On the other hand, a 800k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty fabulous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lockybalboa 618 Report post Posted September 29, 2013 The 350k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty awful. If rather have 20% passive and deal with pet deaths. Pet deaths and not caring isn't really an option for me. Lot of fights we're doing our DPS margin of error is less than 2%, stop to cast a pet takes ~3.5 seconds of lost time, insta rezing a pet takes an ember or a shard. All options are a DPS loss, rather not deal with it and get the shield. Most of the things that kill me are large hits, not passive. So a shield on command is really helpful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazistrasz 216 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 The 350k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty awful. If rather have 20% passive and deal with pet deaths. On the other hand, a 800k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty fabulous. Sac Pact vs. SL isn't so simple as looking at the total damage absorbed/prevented per minute. If there's a fight where you will only take damage on a given interval from a particular ability with minimal or no damage taken in between, Sac Pact is better. Normal Sha of Pride is like this. Assuming mechanics are handled properly, there's really no raid damage outside of Swelling Pride until after the boss casts Unleashed. In that case, being able to simply take some HP off the pet to absorb that hit is considerably preferential to simply taking 20% off of the hit to put on your pet with a minor amount of self-healing afterwards. Locky: what kills your pet? I'm probably not far enough in SoO yet, but I haven't had my pet die to anything short of it getting aggro on adds when I'm too stupid to let the tank get there first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JvChequer 43 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Locky: what kills your pet? I'm probably not far enough in SoO yet, but I haven't had my pet die to anything short of it getting aggro on adds when I'm too stupid to let the tank get there first. Dark Shamans fight is totally buggy and pets keep dying from stuff, so I plaY Gosac even with affliction in this fight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twona 1 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Pet deaths and not caring isn't really an option for me. Lot of fights we're doing our DPS margin of error is less than 2%, stop to cast a pet takes ~3.5 seconds of lost time, insta rezing a pet takes an ember or a shard. All options are a DPS loss, rather not deal with it and get the shield. Most of the things that kill me are large hits, not passive. So a shield on command is really helpful. I havent come across a DPS race this tier yet, so i've been able to "deal with the pet deaths". I do play Sac Pact + GoSac a lot more than I should because I also enjoy controlling burst damage. There are fights with constant spike damage where Sac Pact isnt ideal because of constant damage like p2 H IJ as a poor example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lockybalboa 618 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 I havent come across a DPS race this tier yet, so i've been able to "deal with the pet deaths". I do play Sac Pact + GoSac a lot more than I should because I also enjoy controlling burst damage. There are fights with constant spike damage where Sac Pact isnt ideal because of constant damage like p2 H IJ as a poor example. My guild was 85th in gear for ten man doing top 5 progression, doing the same level of progression in 549ilvl as the other four guilds were doing in 559-563 makes for a few major DPS races in that first week. We've been totally screwed on loot, no caster trinkets, no caster weapons, 1 out of 4 rDPS has 4pc, 2 of 4 has two pc. The list goes on. Looking at you makes me sad, I have four more heroic progression than you with 9 of my bosses having been killed twice Vs. your five bosses having been killed once and Imm twice. But you out gear me by a full 8 ilvl. I'll be in the shower holding my knees and crying if anyone needs me. Locky: what kills your pet? I'm probably not far enough in SoO yet, but I haven't had my pet die to anything short of it getting aggro on adds when I'm too stupid to let the tank get there first. Lot of it is the passive damage I take that is killing my pet. What seems to be the issue, and I have no idea of this is intended or a bug, is that when I take AoE damage and 20% of that is given to my pet, the pet isn't getting the 90% reduction that they normally get. They got this pre-5.4 but with the SL change it seems to have been broken and/or changed. I'm having fights where the little SoB dies 2-4 times PER fight. Eff that, SacPac or UR ftw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Yeah, I've actually had to request heals on my Imp...I feel awful calling for such, but yeah... Dark Shamans and Thok are the only two fights where my Imp got pushed down for the count. Thok was an issue where he bugged out and didn't transition with all 8 of us stacked under 50%, but you'll have that. What Locky said is a suspicion of mine, where the 90% AoE avoidance isn't being calculated on him after the 20% transfer. Soul Link is my talent of choice because I prefer the passive mitigation as well as the 3% healing that comes from it. I haven't found a fight where I need a huge shield every minute, but that could change in Heroic. UR has been the only CD I've needed, and I really only needed it on Heroic Protectors when getting ambushed by that Mark of Anguish. Having a 720k HP pool at my item level helps a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Ran some numbers on my own logs...here they are. Heroic Sha of Pride DPS LOST: Imp: 12694094 20% of Terrorguard: 318453 DPS GAINED: Chaos Bolt: 4145237 Shadowburn: 1205333 Incinerate: 5376427 Conflagrate: 1015223 Fel Flame: 0 Net Gain: -1,270,329 total damage loss Normal Iron Juggernaut DPS LOST: Imp: 8152751 20% of Terrorguard: 340631 DPS GAINED: Chaos Bolt: 2875692 Shadowburn: 538166 Incinerate: 2954430 Conflagrate: 524480 Fel Flame: 0 Net Gain: -1,600,613 total damage loss Normal Malkorok: Net Gain: -887,751 total damage loss Out of the three fights I analyzed, it was always a DPS loss to take Grimoire of Sacrifice over Grimoire of Supremacy. Let's just put this one to rest right now. However, the difference is rather small, so if you're dealing with pet complications in certain fights or you have fights with high instances of CB and SB, then it might outweigh the DPS loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omaric 246 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Did you run Galakras as Destruction ever? I think that's probably the best shot for GoSac to make an impact for Destruction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Yeah, and I disagree. Lots of your damage will be Fire and Brimstone with some burst, but during the two important parts of the fight (Demos and Galakras), your focus is single target burst and Grim of Sac leaves you hanging here. If you're getting to Shadowburn all the small adds, sure, but in my group that was largely padding similar as it was on Horridon...tons of overkill damage, no real contribution to the flow of the fight. Waves of adds died with plenty of leftover time to the next wave. If you're a good Warlock in a group of mediocre DPS, then Shadowburn might pay off (speaking strictly of 10 man, in 25 man, there will be more actual damage from Shadowburn). I play Grim of Sac for Spoils...lots of switching, and the extra 15% to most single target spells helps burst things down. I'd like to analyze my damage on Garrosh, but either WoL misrecorded or my Imp decided to not attack after the first intermission leaving him with a paltry 24% uptime. I may sac his little ass this week if he doesn't shape up. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omaric 246 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Yeah, not sure about 10 man, but I can generally get 3 SB's off on an add for Galakras and it will still be alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Yeah, that shit doesn't happen in 10 man. I'm lucky to squeeze one SB off before it gets destroyed. Trying to get Havoc in is almost impossible. Amazing the derivations between 10 and 25 man for us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omaric 246 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Would you mind going through this: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dyb8pt3rhqjbdekq/sum/damageDone/?s=4216&e=4746 ? Both of us locks went Destruction for this, but I definitely failed in the Shadowburn department. Neither of us were on tower duty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lockybalboa 618 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 but either WoL misrecorded or my Imp decided to not attack after the first intermission leaving him with a paltry 24% uptime. No, I think this really happened. I had a helluva time getting my stupid fucking bitch to start attacking him after coming out of the heart for the first time. Had to tell her to pet attack three times, she kept running over to him, standing there, and running back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Weird...my first Garrosh kill, Imp was 90% uptime. 2nd kill: 22% uptime. 3rd kill: 24% uptime. WTF is he doing? Admiring Garrosh? And Omaric, I'll take a look tomorrow...gotta carry some scrubs through H LS and Ra-den tonight, then it's MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mucklebone 1 Report post Posted October 1, 2013 It's a singular situation, sure, but Grim of Sac is a must when fighting Kanrethad in the final leg of the green fire quest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted October 1, 2013 It's a singular situation, sure, but Grim of Sac is a must when fighting Kanrethad in the final leg of the green fire quest. Sure, but there's a thread for that, and it is a very unique situation in which you aren't allowed to have a pet. It's almost spelled out for you. Completely different than having the option of using a pet like we are discussing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mucklebone 1 Report post Posted October 1, 2013 Fair enough, Zagram. As you say, Green Fire is outlined in a separate thread, but there was no indication that OP had begun/completed the green fire quest chain so I figured that they might like a heads up. They did ask if there were any situations where Grim Sac is the best choice after-all. Apologies for interrupting your discussion of SoO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rakupenda 15 Report post Posted October 1, 2013 Weird...my first Garrosh kill, Imp was 90% uptime. 2nd kill: 22% uptime. 3rd kill: 24% uptime. WTF is he doing? Admiring Garrosh? They sometimes go passive/follow after returning to the main room. Gotta crack that Succubi whip at him. (now that I mention it...I think I may have forgotten to do that yesterday during our kill...bah, no wonder I fell behind after phase one) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gabrieloceano 1 Report post Posted October 1, 2013 The 350k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty awful. If rather have 20% passive and deal with pet deaths. On the other hand, a 800k-ish shield on a 1 min CD is pretty fabulous. How would I get such 800k shield? O.o Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
