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Druid Nerf Announcement Seemingly Imminent.

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Reduce the mana given by innervat to 1

Increase spreading plague to 6 mana and max 5 minions.

Reduce cost and attack/health to Geist to 3 mana 3/4

 

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12 hours ago, WedgeAntilles said:

And your reference to competitive play (again, based on how many tournaments? 1? Wow, great...) - a vast majority had Pirate Warrior in their deck list. Or - earlier on - Midrange Shaman.

Edit: I just checked the HCT EU SUmmer Playoffs.

Even there isn't a 100% Druid-Play.

Everyone in the HCT thing has brought a druid deck, no?

And both pirate warrior and midrange Shaman received balancing nerfs. Pirate warrior lost Buccaneer to a nerf (late Feb 2017) and midrange Shaman lost tuskarr totemic (early Oct 2016) to a nerf (also rockbiter wep, and later spirit claws). The nerfs didn't kill either deck, just weakened them somewhat. Pirate warrior is still here. Midrange Shaman has gone now but not because of nerfs (struggled to keep up with patches aggro decks after MSG expansion, and lost key cards to rotation to wild after Ungoro expansion).

I do feel the game needs a Druid nerf. But that doesn't mean it'll destroy the existing Druid decks, just balance them.

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I spent 4k dust on druid this expansion, but I am actually glad that it will see nerf, even if I get no dust back. It is simply not healthy for the game.

1 hour ago, KinU said:

Reduce the mana given by innervat to 1

I don't think we need more Counterfeit Coins. 

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I don't think they'll hit Innervate; it's way too iconic. Spreading Plague and Ultimate Infestation are likely candidates for nerfs; I assume Spreading Plague may have its mana cost increased by 1, or its spawns reduced by 1 health (to 4); Ultimate Infestation might lose its 5 damage to turn it into a value card rather than a swing card, which is a lot more druid-like, and would be an appropriate power reduction. I know you can't look at things directly like this, but for perspective's sake, drawing 5 cards is worth 7.5 mana; 5 armor is worth 1 mana; a 5/5 is worth 4.5 mana. Without the damage even, the card has about 3 mana of extra value. Alternatively, they could make it draw 4, gain 4 armor, summon a 4/4, deal 4, which would still be strong, but not quite as oppressive.

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Druid's new cards are affordable, that's why there are so many playing it, that's why it generates so much hate. (more players = more hate, Captain!).

Lets look at this absolutely affordable Priest deck https://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/rookies-big-priest-deck

YShaarj, Ysera? You wouldn't play them in any other deck would you?

Try playing versus this, it's absolutely ridiculous.

But you didn't play versus this 14 games in a row, because it's very expensive. Instead you played 14 druids in a row because it's a budget strong deck. If every Druid hater played vs 14 big priests in a row, they wouldn't hate jade druid :)).

bUt HoY LeTs NaRf JoDe DrUiiD BeCauSe sO uNfAirrr!!11!!!!11

6th turn: priest is summoning a 5/5 Y'Shaarh, which pulls a 10/10 Y'Shaarh, next turn those pull a statue and lich king(how often do you have powerful removal for 2 minions on turn 6-7?), hey its alright its totally balanced :D I'll just pack two Shadow Essence's in case my Barnes only pulls a poop Ysera :D :D :D

 

We all know the sad story with druid: coin into wild growth on turn 1, jade blossom on 2, nourish on 3 and innervate + ultimate on 4.

Well guess what, you just lost to a golden hand :D. Try calculating the chance of getting a hand like that (its small).

Try calculating the chance of getting something useful from barnes on big priest deck (60% if we consider priest of the feast useless && you haven't drawn him yet).

Druid's decks are definitely not the most ridiculous decks today, it's just strong and affordable.

Edited by evictednoise
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WedgeAntilles:

 

not making it up that DisguisedToast played 14 druids in a row. search google or bing for his twitter feed, he has a copy of the stream on it...you can fast forward through it and see all fourteen DRUIDS........IN A ROW...........in STANDARD play.

 

k thx

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5 hours ago, WedgeAntilles said:

WedgeAntilles:

 

not making it up that DisguisedToast played 14 druids in a row. search google or bing for his twitter feed, he has a copy of the stream on it...you can fast forward through it and see all fourteen DRUIDS........IN A ROW...........in STANDARD play.

 

k thx

 

Let's talk about some real numbers, shall we?

I have played 151 games in the last week (I was on vacation and had a lot of time...) with Jade-Druid decks.

Ranked games.

30% of these games were against Druid. The majority of those were Jade-Druid, but not all.

Around 1/4 or 1/3 were Aggro-Druid.

That leads us to less then 1/4 of all games against Jade-Druid.

 

Not quite the 90% or 100% you guys like to make up.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dustintime said:

WedgeAntilles:

 

not making it up that DisguisedToast played 14 druids in a row. search google or bing for his twitter feed, he has a copy of the stream on it...you can fast forward through it and see all fourteen DRUIDS........IN A ROW...........in STANDARD play.

 

k thx

Plz get over your realy huge database of incredible 14 games.

What do 14 games tell you? Absolutly nothing.

I am sure you can find somebody who hasn't faced a single Jade-Druid for some games - WTF, Jade-Druid needs a buff...

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4 hours ago, Bozonik said:

Everyone in the HCT thing has brought a druid deck, no?

 

No.

The majority did but not all.

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54 minutes ago, WedgeAntilles said:

No.

The majority did but not all.

Druid did have a ridiculously high (read: almost 100%?) ban rate, though. Some players even brought in unrefined druid decks expecting it to be banned to focus on other decks.

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1 hour ago, WedgeAntilles said:

No.

The majority did but not all.

As our HCT guide says, "All of the 77 players in the event brought Druid, with 57 bringing Priest." Every player brought a druid deck.

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Innervate needs to be moved to the Hall of Fame.  It is not only incredibly limiting for design space, but has caused nothing but problems for years.  It is unequivocally the strongest card in the entire game, and if it doesn't get moved now, it will be with the rotation, which will leave what ever druid cards they end up nerfing in a bad place.  I am currently at work, but I will work on a more detailed argument when I get home.

Edited by VaraTreledees

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I think a lot of players didn't saw the impact that KFT has at first. For druid it is just a bit more because of the ability to ramp.

I still think Innervate is not the problem. As I said, it'S the synergy with the new cards. And the druid needs the mana because a lot of his good cards cost more while other classes already start to spam cards with lower mana. If you remove innervate you will neuter the druid and limit him to fewer deck options and making him far far less fun to play.

If they keep moving cards to hall of fame, I think they should consider to move a card here and there from an expansion that is leaving to the classic set so you still have the same amount of cards you can depend on. I know I know I'm naive ^^

Edited by Caldyrvan

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7 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

If they keep moving cards to hall of fame, I think they should consider to move a card here and there from an expansion that is leaving to the classic set so you still have the same amount of cards you can depend on. I know I know I'm naive ^^

Brode said something about doing that in the future (my guess is next rotation). He specifically mentioned Shatter in place of Ice Lance

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Oh I didn't know that, thank you :) ... Well Shatter is not exactly the card I'm looking for but I'm glad they will go this path.

Edited by Caldyrvan

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Hi everyone,

I've been away from Hearthstone for quite awhile. Last time I was heavily invested in it, it was Gadgetzan meta, The Second Shamanstone Age. I had a very heavy burnout playing the game when it wasn't in its best shape. Needless to say, I've missed the good meta of Ungoro and my interest has been rekindled shortly before Hearthstone was broken again. My point : don't follow what I follow, it's a bad omen.

Also, last time I made a ban prediction, it turned out in exactly the opposite way, so don't follow much there either, but I have something to say.

Ultimate Infestation is broken. I mean, come on. It says "I win", right on the damn card. It's Yogg-Saron but without random on it. You just win when you cast it, no animation delay. Nerfing it to all 4's may be not really enough, just because it's not the numbers that are busted, it's the concept of an expensive but incredibly strong fair spell being broken in a class that has access to mana acceleration. Spells are also much harder to interact in Hearthstone than minions - only one class has Counterspell and that's it.

Spreading Plague is also quite heavily overtuned, and strategic implications of having a card that stops any wide boards in a deck that has a historical weakness with it were, I feel, underestimated by developers quite heavily. But it's really hard to tweak with in an easy way. I would remove it from the game entirely (unleash the hounds rework style).

In 2016, Shaman was strong beyond fair. It had business winning any game given the right draw, it had capabilities both early and late game, both fair and unfair. It pushed out other decks and skewed the meta heavily. Yet it was not unbeatable as per se. We actually had decks like Tempo Mage, Secret Hunter, Zoo Warlock, Dragon Warrior, that could go toe to toe with The Tyrant, good enough to give you a reason to be playing something else than Shaman, and they did so playing their field, playing with a similar gameplan. With Plague and Infestation, Druid at the moment has invalidated every axis of fair interaction with it, and the unfair interaction has been tackled by other means. 

My point is, Blizzard need to act once again, as we face our worst crisis yet. KFT backfired in an unpredictable way, and to be honest, I have little hope for a swift recovery, because it's a very complicated problem. And it's not the only one - if you take a step further and think about the decks that aren't Druid, they are very problematic at their core, too. DK Priest, DK Mage and DK Warlock represent nigh-unbeatable top-end which is an issue we're not even looking at, because Druid is more unbeatable than "nigh".

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I agree that druid needs to be tuned down a bit, but the yelling istoo much, imo. Actually I still like the games vs Druid even if I lose. It is by far more fun than playing against dull face hitting decks.

And there are other "I win buttons" besides Ultimate Infestation which I don't see as a win button. If you and your opponent are equal or you are just slightly behind and he drops a Bloodreaver Gul'dan it's a win button too and I have no problem to get to the 10 mana required for it with all the removal spells, Defile for example can be heavily game changing if played correctly (e.g. abusing own minions to produce more casts of it).

As I said, I agree that druid needs to fall in line but imo it's just a bit tuning required. Nothing is totally broken with druid.

Edited by Caldyrvan

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10 hours ago, evictednoise said:

Druid's new cards are affordable, that's why there are so many playing it, that's why it generates so much hate. (more players = more hate, Captain!).

Lets look at this absolutely affordable Priest deck https://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/rookies-big-priest-deck

YShaarj, Ysera? You wouldn't play them in any other deck would you?

Try playing versus this, it's absolutely ridiculous.

But you didn't play versus this 14 games in a row, because it's very expensive. Instead you played 14 druids in a row because it's a budget strong deck. If every Druid hater played vs 14 big priests in a row, they wouldn't hate jade druid :)).

Your point is fair, affordability does impact how deck popularity. Ysera and Yshaarj have both featured in multiple playable decks in the past though. Just to name a few Ramp Dragon Druid with Barnes-Yshaarj-Ysera-Deathwings-Primordials saw a moderate amount of play last season, they have both featured with Barnes in control Shaman lists in the past too. Yshaarj also saw play in decks where Barnes-Yshaarj were the only minions (with renounce in Warlock which was never very strong, but also in Hunter which was playable in the Karazhan meta before the CoTW nerf). Ysera has featured in multiple dragon based decks like dragon priest and warrior, and control warrior.

Also, while the deck you list can indeed at times be insane, it is not a very consistent deck. Kazakus-Priest with DeathKnight is a much stronger deck (and the 2nd most popular deck brought to the HCT tournament after the druids).

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14 hours ago, positiv2 said:

As our HCT guide says, "All of the 77 players in the event brought Druid, with 57 bringing Priest." Every player brought a druid deck.

Aren't we talking about JADE Druid only? Or do I make a mistake here?

I confess I am confused now - why does the Decklist lists 10 players NOT with Jade-Druid?
https://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/hct-eu-summer-playoffs-players-and-decks

First player is

Cerberus07 Italy

 

with an Aggro-Druid deck.

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3 hours ago, WedgeAntilles said:

Aren't we talking about JADE Druid only? Or do I make a mistake here?

The question did not specify what type of druid - "Everyone in the HCT thing has brought a druid deck, no?". That was a reply to your "Even there isn't a 100% Druid-Play." - even though you talk about jades before and after this sentence, you do not mention jades in this part. That's probably where the confusion is coming from.

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13 hours ago, Bozonik said:

Also, while the deck you list can indeed at times be insane, it is not a very consistent deck. Kazakus-Priest with DeathKnight is a much stronger deck (and the 2nd most popular deck brought to the HCT tournament after the druids).

Yes, exactly my point, it's insane but inconsistent!

Turn 4 Ultimate Infestation is just as much insane and inconsistent! :)

Often times both of my infestations are in the bottom 8 cards, sometimes they are not playable because of card count in hand, or just in favor of building a board.. blah blah.. there are lots of different situations where ultimate infestation is a dead draw.

I think hysteria about druid is coming from those insane turn 4 swing into win moments.

And also thousands watch streamers who play tier 2/experimental decks for stream entertainment value. And they moan and groan about druid, but they don't play standard(I'll humbly imply that's where experimental decks belong) or just spam a consistent deck that would actually win vs druid :)) no, standard is for p....s, real men test on production :D . They are trying to be creative with decks for more stream entertainment value and that's fair, but playing an experimental deck and losing to druid doesn't make druid overpowered.

Toast for example played a quest mage which actually counters jade druid - and he won every single game vs jade druid. But that's boring to watch and viewers go to watch savjz playing another medvih nzoth deathknight *insert few more random legendaries here* priest and moaning about druid :)

 

Also if we go into superstition section, lets try and imagine..

So HS developers have all match statistics to analyze, a proper ranking system for cards and other crazy stuff possibly including artificial intelligence at their disposal to do their job well. And they released Ultimate Infestation as well as Spreading Plague.

Is somebody trying to imply he is smarter than HS developers? :)

 

I know millions of players are in tears and everything, I'm sorry but I'll bet my money on the developers. I'm pretty confident they know what they are doing way better than anyone else.

Druid is not overpowered.

Players however, seem to be underpowered. Which is sad. Or not :)

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      To round off the control toolbox from this expansion, we’ve got a pretty unique effect here. Hopefully, this doesn’t end up being too easy to play around for savvy opponents. You could pre-empt this by running out a Blademaster Okani first and baiting out your opponent into playing a small spell first. But still, while the effect will only be as game-changing as your opponent’s last spell, getting any meaningful spell off seems pretty nice.
      Putting it all together, we have put together an interesting Taunt Control Warrior decklist to try out:  AAECAQcMmu0D784EvIoE2fkDqIoEiN8E784E0qwEmu0DlJUEzJIFiKAECcWSBZTtA47tA5+fBImgBIagBJDUBMSSBcuSBQA= . Slotting in Varian seems like a natural addition to any deck with Silverfury Stalwart and Tealan hops along to be the one divine shield minion you might want to have in your control deck. Rokara and Remornia are just good cards and they’ll go a long way to having your Mor’shan Elite’s active. The rest of the deck is the classic Control Warrior shell that will hopefully give you the armor and removal needed to live long enough to throw down your double-stated taunted win conditions.
      https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAQcMmu0D784EvIoE2fkDqIoEiN8E784E0qwEmu0DlJUEzJIFiKAECcWSBZTtA47tA5%2BfBImgBIagBJDUBMSSBcuSBQA%3D
    • By Staff
      Murder at Castle Nathria is Hearthstone's latest expansion. It adds a new Infuse keyword that absorbs anima from your friendly minions, a new card type named Locations, and more.  
      (Source)
      .blog-detail .gallery figure { width: 100%; max-width: calc((100% / 3) - 6px); } @media screen and (max-width: 600px){ .blog-detail .gallery { justify-content: center; } .blog-detail .gallery figure { width: 100%; max-width: 250px; } .blog-detail h4 { text-align: center; } } Announcing
      Murder at Castle Nathria
      Hearthstone’s Newest Expansion

      The Shadowlands is normally where souls go after they die, so when someone dies in the Shadowlands, that’s a special kind of mystery. Sire Denathrius invited 10 of his counterparts and enemies to Castle Nathria for a dinner party so that he could address the malicious rumors that he is hoarding anima, the life-energy that is drained from tortured souls and used to power the Shadowlands. But just after the festivities started, Sire Denathrius was found dead! It seems a gaggle of enemies does not a good dinner party make. Now the illustrious Murloc Holmes, and his trusty sidekick Watfin, have been called to solve the case. Scour new Location cards, follow the trail of Infused minions, question the 10 Legendary suspects, and help determine who committed Murder at Castle Nathria!   

      Murder at Castle Nathria will launch worldwide on August 2 with 135 new collectible cards! You can find the full Murder at Castle Nathria reveal schedule, and all cards that have already been revealed, by visiting the card library here. Check back frequently—the list will be updated with new cards as they’re revealed!
      Ten Suspicious Suspects
      Sire Denathrius had a lot of enemies. And it just so happens that 10 of them were under his roof at the time of his demise! Each class will have a Legendary minion that is a prime suspect in Sire Denathrius’s murder. They all have the means and the motive, but it is up to you and Murloc Holmes to determine who is guilty.



      New Keyword: Infuse
      Anima, drawn from wayward souls, powers all the Shadowlands—and those who consume it! Cards with the Infuse keyword sit in your hand and absorb anima from your friendly minions as they die. After the specified number of friendly minions die while the Infuse card is in your hand, the Infuse card transforms into a more powerful version. Infuse your cards to unlock their full power!

      New Card Type: Locations
      Castle Nathria is like no place Hearthstone has ever been before. Explore the castle grounds through the all-new Location card type! Locations are played onto the battlefield for an initial cost, and then have an ability that can be activated for free on your turns, each time for a powerful effect. Each activation costs 1 Durability and has a 1-turn Cooldown. Every class gets their own Location card in Castle Nathria which represents where they claim their suspect was at the time of the murder, and synergizes with the themes of the class.

       
      Locations Gameplay Preview with Brian Kibler and Designer Leo Robles Gonzalez
      Want to get a longer look at the new Location card type? Join Brian Kibler and Game Designer Leo Robles Gonzalez as they explore the new Location card type, try them out in a couple games, and reveal some more new cards! Join them on Friday, July 1, at 11 a.m. (Pacific) on Twitch and Youtube!

      Prince Renathal Login Reward Available Now!
      Log in to Hearthstone to get your first hint at what Castle Nathria holds with the complimentary Prince Renathal Legendary minion!* Grow more powerful as you draw more souls to your cause with 40 life and a 40-card starting deck! Add him to your collection and see what you can do when you have more space to work with.

      * Limited one per account. After Patch 24.6, Prince Renathal will be granted upon opening your first Murder at Castle Nathria card pack instead of upon logging in.
      Pre-Purchase Murder at Castle Nathria
      The Murder at Castle Nathria Mega Bundle includes 80 Murder at Castle Nathria card packs, 5 Golden Murder at Castle Nathria card packs, two random Murder at Castle Nathria Legendary cards, the Sire Denathrius Warrior hero skin, the Denathrius card back, the Sandy Shores Battlegrounds Board, and 10 Mercenaries Packs!*

      The Murder at Castle Nathria Bundle includes 60 Murder at Castle Nathria card packs, 2 random Murder at Castle Nathria Legendary cards, and the Denathrius card back!

      Pre-purchase
      * Battleground Perks are not included in the Mega Bundle pre-purchase this time. We’re reworking how Battlegrounds Perks and rewards work for next Battlegrounds season. Until then, some of the current Perks are being extended. Check out the Patch Notes and stay tuned for more details.

    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Handbuff Paladin Deck.
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