Do we like Brewmaster?!

[Wetty 6]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm really curious about Brewmaster tanks and whether people actually want them in their raid team! I'm currently levelling one and I'm REALLY enjoying it, I've never loved a tank this much but I'm really liking Brewmaster! I'm quite a casual player in terms of how much I play, but I do love Heroic modes so ideally I want to aim for a good strong raid team.

 

I'm looking at transferring realm and faction (To Horde) to join a strong 25-man guild as a Brewmaster but I don't see many Brewmasters in the top guilds! Also playing the class I feel though they don't offer many "emergency cooldowns" that other tank classes have!

 

So the point of this thread is for people to firstly, tell me if they would like a Brewmaster in their raid team or whether having the more traditional classes are preferred and also inform me as to what Brewmasters offer the raid! In terms of utility etc... In Paragon's FAQ section, they state that they don't have any Monks in their team because they simply don't offer anything other than their DPS (similar to Rogues in Cata). Is this the case? I don't want to struggle to gear up, then only to find no one wants a Brewmaster!

 

Thanks:)

[Wetty 6]

bump

[LukSluneko 1]

raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/10H/all/14/60/default/

 

For tank representation in 10HC content, check the bottommost table - as you can see, brewmasters are the least represented, but very close behind bears and prot wars, while there are about twice as many protadins. They seem to be generally doing most damage of the tank specs (and if you check previous tiers, it was a similar back then). Our guild is still only in SoO normal now, so I can´t speak for HC content, but we tried two brewmasters in the past month, one of which was pretty bad and the other, who performed similarly to our main tankadin/bear.

[Wetty 6]

Thanks, the DPS aspect of the Brewmaster really appeals to me as well as their playstyle:) I'm quite certain they would make great off-tanks due to their ability to pick up adds and Zen Meditation makes a really good raid cooldown, but other than that...Do they bring anything to the raid? Warriors have their banners and rallying cry, Bears can use Tranq, do Brewmasters bring anything unique to the raid?

[Szensa 3]

Hello there,

 

I play a Brewmaster in a semi-hardcore 10man guild. We are currently stuck on normal difficulty, so I can't really tell you anything about Heroic yet. My co-tank is a Protection Warrior, and I can say, he bites the grass way more times than I do, althought I'm still on crit build. :P Well... it may, of course depend on his playstyle, and I must say, we are not top players. :P

 

What we, Brewmasters can offer to our raid team, is Guard (besides DPS). Always have your Black Ox Statue down. :) Unfortunately, our DPS got cut by huge amounts, but we are still viable, I think. On high vengeance fights, like Iron Juggernaut, you still Guard your teammates for 400-600k, which helps a lot. :)

 

And we haven't even talked about Avert Harm, Leg Sweep, Ring of Peace.... :P

I think every tank class is viable if you play it correctly. :)
Here is a link to my armory profile: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Szensa/advanced

 

To answer your question... Yes, I DO f*cking love Brewmaster! :D
Sorry for my bad english! :P

 

Yours sincerely,
Adam

[Wetty 6]

Hi!! Thanks for your reply!

 

I've always thought that Brewmasters are the squishy tank but if you're saying that your Prot Warrior takes more hits than you, then I can definitely say i'll enjoy Brewmaster!:)

 

The main reason I ask about what Brewmasters bring to the raid is that I saw a comment on another website saying "You NEED a Brewmaster to do ra'den!" and I wondered what was so special about Brewmasters that proposed someone to say that! In good gear on your average fight, how much does Guard shield yourself for?? Also, 400-600k seems like A LOT of shields! In that respect I can definitely see why people would like a Brewmaster for that shield!

 

I am very confused about stat priorities, everyone seems to say something different! Does it really matter which stat I choose? Or are they all roughly the same?:P

 

Thanks!

[Szensa 3]

Hello again,

 

at first, you shouldn't compare total damage taken. :P It depends on hell a lot of things, how much damage you take. For example, if you tank the boss 80% of the time, you'll take way lot more damage, and it still can happen, that I die after I taunt. ;D Sunnier has made a wonderful blog post about it http://sunniersartofwar.com/blog/2013/08/23/why-you-shouldnt-compare-total-damage-taken/

 

Its just the way Brewmasters work. Normally we take more damage, than other tank classes, since we wear leather, don't have a shield etc. Our strength is, that we have control over our damage intake. :) If you purify correctly, you can 'say' when you want to take damage. :) What kills my fellow co-tank, is spike damage, which it seems, he can't handle.

 

About Ra-Den. The reason you 'need' a Brewmaster to kill him is, that he regularly uses an ability called Fatal Strike or something, which if you have active mitigation up, does a little amount of damage, but in case you don't, it kills you instantly. And since Shuffle counts as active mitigation... :P You can imagine the rest. :P (O f*cking P)

 

On normal difficulty I have around 110-170k (140-145k avg) vengeance if tanking, which lets me Guard for at least 300k, but usually way more, like I said 400k+, even over 600k. Personally I use my Guard as personal CD, and like oh my God... It helped me sooo many times to survive. ;D Otherwise, what your teammates will love you for, is your Statue. :) Just have it up all the time and do as much DPS as you can. ;D

Unfortunately we don't have any logs (how lame), so I can't give you the exact amounts. I'll ask our GM again to start logging the fights already... :P

 

And yeah, stat priorities. It depends on your playstyle and team size. Since you are looking forward to join a 25-man team, I'd suggest to gear for mastery, because you will take heavy damage during the encounters, and it will help hell a lot to protect your allies and yourself. :) But its all about personal preference.

 

I'd say to go for:

Exp. (15%)/Hit (7.5%) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

 

You can even try to gem for Stamina if you find yourself lying on the floor pretty quickly, but remember: Stamina is our worst survivability stat, but don't ignore it until you are able to take a few hits without dying. :)

 

Otherwise, the priorities I follow at the moment are:

Exp. (15%)/Hit (7.5%) > Haste (7k) > Crit > Mastery , and I enchant for Agility, because I like the Crit/Dodge/AP rating it gives (more Guard crits, more heal crits, higher Guards, higher DPS).

Note, that I raid in a 10-man team, so my damage intake is way lower than yours will ever be.

 

Sooo ummm.... I hope I helped. :D

 

Yours sincerely,

Adam

 

PS: October 2 Hotfix.

Brewmaster

 

Brewmasters now deal 5.6% less damage with all attacks (-15% in total).

 

*sighs*

 

 

[Wetty 6]

Wow thank you so much for the long and detailed reply! I'm really looking forward to becoming a Brewmaster now! I try to read everything about them but everyone (at least on Icy veins) seems to be in love with Mistweavers!:P It's a shame that our damage is being reduced so much, I don't feel like I do huge amounts as it is! But I guess I haven't had any vengeance as such whilst levelling!

 

In terms of the active mitigation that Brewmasters (and DKs) have, (I should probably know this as my main is a healer:P) but does it makes them a lot easier to heal? Or harder because of the constant damage?! Do you know any nice addons for keeping track of shuffle and how does stagger work (in terms of getting rid of it?)

 

I've added you as a friend so it's easier for me to message you about if I have any questions in the future about Brewmaster:) Thanks for the help, I can't wait to start raiding on it! :D

[Szensa 3]

Hello,

 

as I've said before, during last tier our damage was really out of control. I could pull over 180k DPS on single target fights without abusing the vengeance system... and imagine my DPS on AOE fights. (dem raid Guards. ;D) And I'm not the best geared Brewmaster alive. Since then Blizzard nerfs our DPS every single hotfix. :\ Some nerfs were really necessary, but I find this 15% overall DPS nerf just lame. Its not just about being a DPS whore (althought I am :D), but my team suffers because of it since the frequency of our 'raidwide' Guards depend on our DPS output...

 

As our healers report, Brewmasters (AKA me in this case) are somewhat easier to heal, than our Prot Warri and our GM-s Prot Pally (he plays his Pally tank in case one of us cannot attend to a raid). And its because of our awsome damage control. :) Just imagine: you don't have to use your oshit buttons every 5 seconds, because your tank drops below 20% every 2 seconds. You can just continue with your hots and normal spells, and he's okay. :) There is 'no such thing' as spike (physical) damage as a Brewmaster. ;)

 

If you're looking for nice addons, you should try Sunnier's Auras (http://sunniersartofwar.com/brewmaster-weak-auras/). I also use modificated versions of a few of them. :P

I also like the Monk Timers addon (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/monktimers), and this Vengeance status meter (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/vengeance-status).

 

I hope (I know) you'll enjoy playing a Brewmaster. You'll need a lot of practice to master it, but it definetely worth it. :P

Feel free to contact me anytime if you have any questions, but note, that I'm far not the best Brewmaster alive. :P If you want to hear the oppinion of one of the bests (if not the best), you should contact Sunnier. :) I'm sure she will be glad to help you. :)

 

Yours sincerely,
Adam

[Wetty 6]

I agree, our raid guards is only a good because we need enough damage for it to proc! Ah well!

 

I'll definitely give ALL of your advice a go, it's been such a great help!:) So thank you so much for that! Expect some PMs from me in the near future as I'll definitely be asking you lots of questions:D

 

But yeah, I'm really looking forward to it! Good luck with all your raids:)

 

George.

[trieu 4]

Make sure you know brewmasters are not armor tanks like previous tanks. Especially being built with active mitigation in mind. Brewmasters usually always take a steady stream of damage via stagger and were built with active mitigation so you need to be keep shuffle uptime near 100%. 

 

Mastery is the best smoothing stat for monks, from what I have seen. Crit is the best avoidance stat as your autoattack crit generate Elusive brew for you to consume for 30% dodge for physical attacks 1 second per stack stacking up 15 times for 15 seconds and can continue to stack while one is active. Haste provides faster autoattacks for a chance for Elusive Brew stacks through crits and energy regen which you use jab and Keg Smash on for Chi dumping it into purifying brew to remove your stagger if it gets too high or black out kick to provide shuffle buff which increases your stagger amount by 20% and parry by 20%.

 

Another chi consumer is Guard which scales with attack power so what I like to do is let the boss or whatever hit you a bit tiger palm for 15% stronger Guard then use it for a big Guard absorb.

 

I quite like them they are a nice spec and quite relaxing to play if done properly. I like them.

 

They are highly viable as 2 top guilds use them being Blood Legion and Midwinter. (actually every tank spec is viable while some do more damage which is obvious)

Edited October 3, 2013 by trieu

[Wetty 6]

Regarding monks not as armour tanks, could you suggest a good opener for me? I was tanking some 80-85 dungeons yesterday and some mobs literally 2 hit me, the healer had no chance to heal me before I hit deck! I understand I need those buffs up constantly but how do I open?

[Szensa 3]

Hi,

 

this is me again.

 

I'd suggest Keg Smash as your 'opener' and hit Blackout Kick instantly after. Try to keep up Shuffle always. The first few seconds can be rough, but after you got your Shuffle rolling, you should be okay.
Otherwise, if you are really dying on the first few hits, you can try Guarding yourself after your first Keg Smash, but I'd suppose you do not. Its simply, because it scales with your AP (Vengeance), therefore you should save it for later.

 

Another idea.

Try pulling with your Statue. Just throw it in a middle of mobs, and they will instantly attack it instead of you, so your healer will have time to react. Easy-peasy.

 

Another idea.

Try pulling with Dizziyng Haze! Throw your lovely keg over a pack, and let them come fore you. Your healer will have time again to react.

 

Gratis extra: Do use Ring of Peace or Leg Sweep. They are really OP aoe CC-s.

 

Adam

 

Edit: Use your Roll to escape. A few seconds you spend outside a packs melee range may save your life. :)

Edited October 3, 2013 by Szensa

[trieu 4]

I always open with keg smashs to get those free chi and the expel harm if ive taken damage or pre pull to get 2 chi if I previous had 1.  With the 2 chi I will blackout kick immediately and see how much the boss or mobs hit me. If my health dips close to half Im probably going to use Guard after I tiger palm ( 15% stronger guard) as you just got alot of vengeance which is attack power for a big absorb and use chi wave and continue generating chi for blackout kick keeping my energy around 30 so I can jab to purify damage but in a dungeon I dont think your stagger will be in the red.

 

Have a good way to track your shuffle, tiger power buff, and elusive brew. ( i use tellmewhen)

[Wetty 6]

Thanks for the fast replies!

 

I tend to delay any mitigation because I worry about aggro and like to build up Guard with Tiger Palm (many times it's too late and I'm dead already!:O) I don't think I understand how good shuffle is, I see it and think "ah Guard is better" so my state of mind is to proc Guard first then worry about shuffle, but in fact you're telling me to do the opposite?? Should I definitely use blackout kick before guard then??

[trieu 4]

Guard is like a last resort to me, its a Layonhands/divine shield(maybe more like a shieldwall/guardian of ancient kings) in my eyes as it gives you an absorb so none of the damage gets to you. Blackout kick is your main chi dumper, shuffle is powerful with 20% more stagger and 20% more parry always keep it up if possible even in aoe I will throw all my chi into blackout kick when I can.

 

Shuffle uptime should be near 100% and the duration stacks, I have gone through a fight where I had 2 minutes of it leftover from blackout kicking too much ( dont really recommend mindlessly doing that like me though).

 

Guard itself is awful it absorbs nothing, with the 15% buff and vengeance then popping Guard you ll be safe for awhile as the absorb will be much more powerful. As we both said it scales with attack power (vengeance). So the more vengeance the stronger it is.

Edited October 3, 2013 by trieu

[Wetty 6]

So I should ALWAYS use blackout kick instead of using Guard? Unless I'm in a tight situation? I've watched some videos and they tell me to use guard whenever it's off cooldown! Also, if I use blackout kick at 2 secs left of shuffle, do I then get 8 secs of shuffle total?

 

edit: you just answered my question:P

Edited October 3, 2013 by Vekz

[Szensa 3]

Hi,

 

its situational, but I'd say always keep Shuffle up. Your 'pull Guard' will absorb like nothing, so it will be your healers job to keep you alive. And that 20% parry chance and 20% Stagger rate definetely worths it. For real.

 

As a less experienced Brewmaster, you can use your Guard on CD tho. The more experience you get, the more you will realise, that using Guard on CD is a huge waste/mistake, so you'll just automatically start trying to save it on purpose.

 

Adam

 

Edit: You will never have aggro problems while playing a Brewmaster. ;D

Edited October 3, 2013 by Szensa

[Wetty 6]

I think the main reason I steered away from using Blackout Kick as a Chi dumper was because I didn't know Shuffle was a stacking buff, I thought I would have to use it every 6 seconds which would get really tough to do! Thank you for those tips, they'll help a lot! How do I know when to use Purifying Brew by the way? I saw it proc yesterday for the first time, but I have no idea what that meant!

[trieu 4]

If Purifying Brew procced it probably wants you to purify your stagger as it got high. I purify stagger immediately if it turns red. I will let it sit on yellow as it means you are stagger 6-11% of your health I think, I dont remember the exact number correct me if thats off.

 

Alot of people dont know blackout kick provides shuffle and end up spending it on something like Breath of Fire and often find the tank "squishy" and dont play it due to spiky damage intake. I only Breath of Fire if I have shuffle up already and I will not need to Guard or purify stagger soon.

[Wetty 6]

When you say "turns red", what turns red? The actual tooltip?

 

I tend to overuse breath of fire I think, I forget i'm a tank and not a DPS. so I might take it away from my action bars to get used to using blackout kick more often:)

[trieu 4]

When you take damage the stagger icon in your debuffs will turn green the more damage you stagger it will start to change.

 

Green = low stagger, yellow = moderate,  red = high stagger

 

I believe there is a weakaura that helps track it better I dont remember the name of it. If your stagger is green or yellow the entire time during dungeons then you probably wont be needing to purify it.

[Wetty 6]

Oh right! Thank you:) Szensa mentioned a monktimers addon which I'm going to try out later on, so hopefully that'll help me track it better:D

[Krazyito 521]

Sunnier has some great monk tanking information: http://sunniersartofwar.com/

 

on top of a great set of weakauras for tanking: http://sunniersartofwar.com/brewmaster-weak-auras/

[Szensa 3]

Oh right! Thank you:) Szensa mentioned a monktimers addon which I'm going to try out later on, so hopefully that'll help me track it better:D

 Hi there,

 

I hope I won't disappoint you, but unfortunately Monk Timers have nothing to do with Shuffle uptime or Stagger. :\

If you are looking for addons that help you keep an eye on those (yes, you do ;D), you should definetely try using Sunnier's auras, as Krazyito and I advised before. :)

 

Currently Sunnier's Stagger aura doesn't show the exact amount of damage you are staggering, 'only' the percentage of health being staggered compared to your health pool (my english < all... do you understand what I want to say? :D). If you want to monitor both, throw me a PM, and I'll give you my modified aura. :P

 

Have fun tanking! ;D

 

Adam