Tragedy

[Fliits 112]

Medivh's winrate is at an all time low, standing 39.2%, according to Hotslogs. When is Blizzard going to do something about this? I understand that Medivh is supposed to be a tricky character, but come on, no other character is even close to him in winrate. Just rework him please, it should already be time for the games to begin.

[Valhalen 1,484]

On 14/09/2017 at 8:18 AM, Fliits said:

Medivh's winrate is at an all time low, standing 39.2%, according to Hotslogs. When is Blizzard going to do something about this? I understand that Medivh is supposed to be a tricky character, but come on, no other character is even close to him in winrate. Just rework him please, it should already be time for the games to begin.

Medivh definitely could use a tweak. I wouldn't say he actually needs a rework because many of his talents are pretty versatile already.

The problem is, like you said, that he is tricky to use. Another problem is that he doesn't really fit anywhere in the metagame when drafting. He can do a bit of everything, but is a master of none (although no other Hero in the game has a 5 second cooldown ability that gives Protected Status).

Should Blizzard rework Medivh, I think they should repurpose him as a Support, in my opinion, and allow him to do a bit of healing out of his skills; for example healing nearby allies when dealing damage with Arcane Rift, and/or allies being healed after using Portal when using it once. He already has a pretty neat talent that gives heals in the form of Reabsorption.

[Fliits 112]

14 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Medivh definitely could use a tweak. I wouldn't say he actually needs a rework because many of his talents are pretty versatile already.

The problem is, like you said, that he is tricky to use. Another problem is that he doesn't really fit anywhere in the metagame when drafting. He can do a bit of everything, but is a master of none (although no other Hero in the game has a 5 second cooldown ability that gives Protected Status).

Should Blizzard rework Medivh, I think they should repurpose him as a Support, in my opinion, and allow him to do a bit of healing out of his skills; for example healing nearby allies when dealing damage with Arcane Rift, and/or allies being healed after using Portal when using it once. He already has a pretty neat talent that gives heals in the form of Reabsorption.

I don't find anything wrong with Medivh's talents or abilities myself, but he's just too darn weak to do anything substantial. We'll probably get some kind of update on The Master's Touch in the near future (source here:

), but I still think he needs something else buffed. What that is, I'm no entirely sure. I personally don't think that Medivh needs healing capabilities, but instead maybe some refining on his talents. For example, make The Master's Touch a baseline trait, not a talent, just like Chromie's new Sand Blast quest, so Medivh players can actually pick a talent on tier 3. In addition, though he has a lot of variety, he lacks the oomph of an ability based quest, meaning most of his talents will just end up as situational tools, not buffs that eventually build up into a powerful set of talents. And there in lies the problem. Everyone says he has lot of variety, but in the end, everyone's going to go for the portal build, as the other's just don't compare in overall strength. And that's why I think he needs a talent rework. He just doesn't have enough variety or staying power in a match, since his talents don't buff him up enough to make a lasting impact on the battle. Medivh is a cleverly designed character that most likely will just gather dust (Dust of Appearance, that is) in the character select screen until Blizzard decides that it's time for the Last Guardian to enter the meta.

[Valhalen 1,484]

2 hours ago, Fliits said:

I don't find anything wrong with Medivh's talents or abilities myself, but he's just too darn weak to do anything substantial (...)

(...) For example, make The Master's Touch a baseline trait, not a talent, just like Chromie's new Sand Blast quest, so Medivh players can actually pick a talent on tier 3.

Indeed, you are right. Maybe they could rework him like they have been doing with recent Heroes, adding a power-spike quest talent on level 1, so players can pick a specialization to focus on. In my opinion they should make Portal Mastery baseline.

My thoughts for what his Tier 1 Talents should be:

- The Master's Touch: instead of losing stacks upon dying, make so hitting 15 Heroes with Arcane Rift add 75 bonus damage, and hitting 30 Heroes reduce the cooldown by 1 second.

- Reabsorption: after absorbing X damage through Force of Will, it heals 50% of the damage absorbed.

- Stable Portal: no changes.

- Raven's Intellect: no changes.

Quote

He just doesn't have enough variety or staying power in a match, since his talents don't buff him up enough to make a lasting impact on the battle. 

Well, he does have two very underrated powerspike talents at level 20: Arcane Brilliance and Invisibility. Even though more experienced players can detect stealth, it can still play a massive impact in teamfights, if used correctly.

Another problem is that Medivh requires a lot of communication, because he can either win or completely ruin a teamfight. I've played with some Medivhs that loved using Ley Line Seal at the exact same moment when our team was using stuff like Mosh Pit or Lamb to the Slaughter, thus negating the Heroics.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Valhalen

[Valks 2,375]

He's the perfect leaderboard padding Hero. Using the reduced CD on your Q, you can so easily sit at such high Hero Damage, but genuinely have no impact on the game while doing so.

[Fliits 112]

2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

In my opinion they should make Portal Mastery baseline.

No. Portal Mastery does give considerable amount of depth to using Portal, but in the end disrupt it's ability as a last minute escape method too much to be considered a viable pick. Making it baseline would slow its usage down so that you couldn't use it in a hurry, for example when escaping a team fight.

2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

- The Master's Touch: instead of losing stacks upon dying, make so hitting 15 Heroes with Arcane Rift add 75 bonus damage, and hitting 30 Heroes reduce the cooldown by 1 second.

- Reabsorption: after absorbing X damage through Force of Will, it heals 50% of the damage absorbed.

- Stable Portal: no changes.

- Raven's Intellect: no changes.

Maybe a quest for Portal that combines Stable Portal and Quickening? or just combining the two without a quest and also combining Raven's Intellect and Winds of Celerity. The quest for Force of Will isn't really a good idea in my opinion. The 5th tier talents all focusing on Force of Will is a good amount of balance on Medivh in my opinion. Also picking both Reabsorption and Enduring Will/Circle of Protection would be too powerful. They could be moved to the 4th tier, to make them a little more useful. i don't really think focusing on one ability is Medivh's style, so maybe the quests wouldn't be a good idea. As you said yourself, he's a jack of all trades.

2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Well, he does have two very underrated powerspike talents at level 20: Arcane Brilliance and Invisibility. Even though more experienced players can detect stealth, it can still play a massive impact in teamfights, if used correctly.

This is true, but they come way too late to be a game changer. With the exception of Guardian of Tirisfal, all the other talents don't really stir up anything bigger than Medivh himself.

2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Another problem is that Medivh requires a lot of communication, because he can either win or completely ruin a teamfight. I've played with some Medivhs that loved using Ley Line Seal at the exact same moment when our team was using stuff like Mosh Pit or Lamb to the Slaughter, thus negating the Heroics.

This is what makes Medivh difficult for first timers, but it doesn't make him very hard difficulty by default. Auriel relies a lot on her teammates, and she's still medium difficulty. Yes, Medivh's abilities require a lot of attention on his teams part, but that doesn't really mean anything in the long run.

[Valhalen 1,484]

5 minutes ago, Fliits said:

No. Portal Mastery does give considerable amount of depth to using Portal, but in the end disrupt it's ability as a last minute escape method too much to be considered a viable pick. Making it baseline would slow its usage down so that you couldn't use it in a hurry, for example when escaping a team fight.

Maybe a quest for Portal that combines Stable Portal and Quickening? or just combining the two without a quest and also combining Raven's Intellect and Winds of Celerity. The quest for Force of Will isn't really a good idea in my opinion. The 5th tier talents all focusing on Force of Will is a good amount of balance on Medivh in my opinion. Also picking both Reabsorption and Enduring Will/Circle of Protection would be too powerful. They could be moved to the 4th tier, to make them a little more useful. i don't really think focusing on one ability is Medivh's style, so maybe the quests wouldn't be a good idea. As you said yourself, he's a jack of all trades.

This is true, but they come way too late to be a game changer. With the exception of Guardian of Tirisfal, all the other talents don't really stir up anything bigger than Medivh himself.

This is what makes Medivh difficult for first timers, but it doesn't make him very hard difficulty by default. Auriel relies a lot on her teammates, and she's still medium difficulty. Yes, Medivh's abilities require a lot of attention on his teams part, but that doesn't really mean anything in the long run.

Very valid points. I think you're right, perhaps focusing too much on quests wouldn't work with him. His kit is one of those that is really hard to balance without making it overpowered, because even as he is now, a pro Medivh can turn the tide of the match under the right circumstances.

I'd say that the difference between Medivh and Auriel is she requires a lot less communication than Medivh. As long she has Bestow Hope on the right ally, she shines. It requires more perception of the player controlling Auriel, to judge the best Hero to be bestowed in specific situations, as opposed to Medivh, who has to ping people and announce that he is placing a Portal or will use Ley Line Seal.

[Dallium 2]

So I think the issue with Medivh is that he not only has a high individual skill cap, but a high team skill cap. His portals can offer unparalleled, virtually inescapable chase OR escape for his entire team, milk carton picks (when teamed with stitches) and lightning fast, safe rotations on smaller maps. A three man rotation can be in lane before the other team has a chance to even call it out. Ravenform lets him scout the enemy team with impunity, and LLS is a fearsome lockdown in the hands of a master. Those pro teams who are know for playing him routinely see him banned out first, because other pro teams either don't have a way to deal with him or don't want to, allowing those teams to get high priority meta picks that they would otherwise never see. His place in the meta at the highest level of play is to disrupt the meta. Watch the draft of Game 2 of Superstars vs Space station in Round 1 of the playoffs; Dread and Glaurung talk about Medivh at length, with Glaurung even saying Medivh is "still very strong."

This is not, however, a "lol git gud noob" post. His winrate at anything other than Master's Team is abysmal, and he could certainly use a rework if there's a way to make him more accessible without actually buffing him. I'm not saying the game should be balanced around pro play, but it should be taken into consideration. Any out and out buff will almost certainly be criticized by the pro community, and right or wrong those pros have a measure of not only influence, but access. I don't know how you'd make him more accessible when so many of his best abilities are fundamentally about facilitating his team. The problem isn't that Medivh is bad; he is demonstrably not bad. They problem is he's super hard to utilize.

 

Edit: I'd link the vod to the game I mentioned, but it's still happening.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Dallium