Prinz Keleseth

[Guest]

How are you supposed to win a game if the enemy plays Prince Keleseth in his first turn?

If he is played on turn 5 or something like that - yeah, you can beat it.

But on the first turn?

I am close to just quit the game if he is played then, seems kind of useless to continue the game. Never had a chance to win one of those anyway.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Guest

[Mursilis 34]

To be fair, perfect curve for any deck is pretty hard to beat.  You can always hope your opponent gets some bad RNG afterwards and you can take advantage, otherwise yes you'll probably lose.

[VaraTreledees 138]

Depends on the deck you are playing.  In general, unless you can out value the deck even after prince K, your only option is to out tempo it.  The faster the game is over, the less prince K matters, you are ultimately trading tempo for value.  Coining out a 2/2 that has no immediate impact is a huge tempo loss, especially if they don't draw a 2 drop next turn (that is to say, not that they don't play another two drop, but that they don't have one buffed with prince K).  Sometimes the games are just un-winnable.  The win rate of tempo decks with prince K and turn 1 or 2 is pretty ridiculously strong, especially if you do something like 1 drop > prince K > captain (that you drew that turn) + patches.  Really, its following up prince K with a pirate that tends to wins the tempo games.  You can get so much lost tempo back with a 2/2 or 3/3 patches that it is pretty silly.

Edited October 10, 2017 by VaraTreledees

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Mursilis said:

To be fair, perfect curve for any deck is pretty hard to beat.  You can always hope your opponent gets some bad RNG afterwards and you can take advantage, otherwise yes you'll probably lose.

That's the point - there is no curve he needs to have.  Sure, you will next to always loose if the opponent has a great curve. But what are the chances?

There is just one card. Which he has a 30% chance to have in his opening hand (if he is second, if he goes first chances are a little below 25%).

His whole curve exists in one single card.

And chances of these decks of not having any minions to follow up on the Prince are very very slim - because they run lots of small minions.

 

Doesn't matter if it is a Southsea Captain Swashburglar or whatever.

Or a rogue with Shadowstep

 

I have no problem loosing games if the opponent has excellent starting cards - that's just RNG and not that high a chance. But with the Prince I get the feeling that it is just one card you need in your starting hand to win the game. And that is ridiculous.

Did some digging and found this:

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/aggro-tempo-rogue-deck-list-guide-standard/

I have no idea how true the statements / opinions of this site are. But they use statistics and argue, that if you have the Prince in your opening hand your statistical chance of winning approaches 100%.

Sure, there is never a 100% chance. But even if is just 80%, that seems way to high for a single card.

 

Well, seems like I just have to hope not to run into him on turn 1/2 often. And if I do I'll just quit the game and start a new one. That should increase my statistical winrate if I play a given amount of time.

[Mursilis 34]

2 hours ago, WedgeAntilles said:

That's the point - there is no curve he needs to have.  Sure, you will next to always loose if the opponent has a great curve. But what are the chances?

There is just one card. Which he has a 30% chance to have in his opening hand (if he is second, if he goes first chances are a little below 25%).

His whole curve exists in one single card.

And chances of these decks of not having any minions to follow up on the Prince are very very slim - because they run lots of small minions.

I don't see this deck often at all, so don't have much experience with it.  But traditionally I've found that decks that rely on a single card just don't do all that well (at least when I try them).  RNG, being everything the deck is built around, is going to hurt the deck as much as help it I would imagine.  I'd have to play against it more to have a more informed opinion, but first impression has been it's a gimmick deck more than anything else.

[Keizoku 185]

4 hours ago, Mursilis said:

 it's a gimmick deck more than anything else.

According to Tempostorm, both Pirates-cum-Keleseth Rogue and Warrior do fine in the current meta. They're good decks, fast enough to (graphic description of sexual violence censored) Highlander Priest hard and fast so he can't get into the game at all.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Mursilis said:

I don't see this deck often at all, so don't have much experience with it.  But traditionally I've found that decks that rely on a single card just don't do all that well (at least when I try them).  RNG, being everything the deck is built around, is going to hurt the deck as much as help it I would imagine.  I'd have to play against it more to have a more informed opinion, but first impression has been it's a gimmick deck more than anything else.

According to metastats Temporogue and ZooWarlock (which runs the Prince too) are two of the best current decks.

Hearthstonetopdecks rates Temporogue as Tier 1 too (with 4 decks in Tier 1). And ZooWarlock as Tier 2.

My guess is the decks itself are quite good and on top of that you have the Prince to seal the deal if you are lucky enough to get him turn 1/2.