Struggling with Sub spec, could use some help

[Nyte 2]

Struggling with putting out the deeps.

 

Armory

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/lightbringer/nytelyfe

 

I did just get 935 helm from my weekly, although its not a huge gain. So the armory is still slightly behind. "unbound reality mask" for reference.

 

A link to logs...although when I look at these numbers they seem off. My DMG meters show usually in the 980k to 1.1 mil range. Although I still feel like this is super sub par (no pun intended)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/lightbringer/nytelyfe

I STILL cant get the shoulders to drop...6 legendaries in, and still no shoulders. I am aware that this is a huge dps loss...Im just trying to calculate how bad it really is.

 

I started using an opener macro to see if that would help...I seem to be able to push around 1.7 mil dps in the first 20 seconds of the fight, then it just slowly drops and drops.

 

Heres the macro...

/castsequence reset=30 Shadow Blades, Shadowstrike, Nightblade, symbols of death, Shadow Dance, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Shadowstrike, Shadowstrike, Vanish, Death from Above, Shadow Dance, Shadowstrike, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Shadowstrike

After the end of that, my combo points are sometimes in the area of 2-3, Nightblade is about or has just fallen off, and im into a regular rotation. I refresh nightblade, continuing backstabbing/evis until shadowblades finishes (roughly 12 seconds after the macro is done). Usually when its done and ive unloaded a full set of combo points is when I throw in goremaws (roughly). I always use 6 combo points Symbols/DFA, and land spamming shadowdance.

 

Ive read all the guides and am following it, but Im looking to see if there is a flaw somewhere that Im making thats holding me back.

 

I use weakauras to track my finality buff and use it properly with DFA. Sometimes...(sometimes) it doesnt line up...and usually (usually) ill wait for it before I use symbols/DFA. In all honesty Ive tried both waiting for it and using it every time to...using symbols/DFA on cooldown, and I still see no difference. 

 

I feel like this spec is amazing...but I cant seem to wield it. Any assistance is appreciated. Ill gladly send any other info thats needed. 

 

Help?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Nyte
Forgot a link

[Carrn 284]

On 11/10/2017 at 6:31 AM, Nyte said:

Struggling with putting out the deeps.

 

Armory

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/lightbringer/nytelyfe

 

I did just get 935 helm from my weekly, although its not a huge gain. So the armory is still slightly behind. "unbound reality mask" for reference.

 

A link to logs...although when I look at these numbers they seem off. My DMG meters show usually in the 980k to 1.1 mil range. Although I still feel like this is super sub par (no pun intended)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/lightbringer/nytelyfe

I STILL cant get the shoulders to drop...6 legendaries in, and still no shoulders. I am aware that this is a huge dps loss...Im just trying to calculate how bad it really is.

 

I started using an opener macro to see if that would help...I seem to be able to push around 1.7 mil dps in the first 20 seconds of the fight, then it just slowly drops and drops.

 

Heres the macro...

/castsequence reset=30 Shadow Blades, Shadowstrike, Nightblade, symbols of death, Shadow Dance, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Shadowstrike, Shadowstrike, Vanish, Death from Above, Shadow Dance, Shadowstrike, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Shadowstrike

After the end of that, my combo points are sometimes in the area of 2-3, Nightblade is about or has just fallen off, and im into a regular rotation. I refresh nightblade, continuing backstabbing/evis until shadowblades finishes (roughly 12 seconds after the macro is done). Usually when its done and ive unloaded a full set of combo points is when I throw in goremaws (roughly). I always use 6 combo points Symbols/DFA, and land spamming shadowdance.

 

Ive read all the guides and am following it, but Im looking to see if there is a flaw somewhere that Im making thats holding me back.

 

I use weakauras to track my finality buff and use it properly with DFA. Sometimes...(sometimes) it doesnt line up...and usually (usually) ill wait for it before I use symbols/DFA. In all honesty Ive tried both waiting for it and using it every time to...using symbols/DFA on cooldown, and I still see no difference. 

 

I feel like this spec is amazing...but I cant seem to wield it. Any assistance is appreciated. Ill gladly send any other info thats needed. 

 

Help?

It looks as though your biggest problem is how you're using your Dances. Sometimes when you try to do the DfA > Dance combo you aren't getting Dance off before your buffed Evis hits the target, and other times you just aren't getting all the casts in that you need to be.

You should always be hitting that x2 Shadowstrike > Evis > Shadowstrike combination in each Dance, make sure you're going into it with high enough Energy to pull it off. Don't use Evis too early, and don't be worried about wasting a CP here or there if you have 5 after your first Shadowstrike - wasting 1 and getting a hugely buffed 6CP Evis inside Dance (plus the Energy restore) is more valuable than not wasting any, cause you'll still only have Energy for 1 Shadowstrike afterwards. 

As an extra note, your relics could really use some upgrading. Higher ilevel is rarely the best choice, and you can check to see which relics will benefit you on this spreadsheet here

[Nyte 2]

Hey man I really appreciate the reply. Gunna see what i can come up with. The spreadsheet feels a little difficult to understand, but I think I get it.

 

Appreciate the response 

[Carrn 284]

10 hours ago, Nyte said:

Hey man I really appreciate the reply. Gunna see what i can come up with. The spreadsheet feels a little difficult to understand, but I think I get it.

 

Appreciate the response 

Sorry it took me a while, I get busy with school and stuff and it takes me a few days sometimes. I can have another look at it when you get some more logs if you like, just post here when you've got them

[Nyte 2]

Im assuming Ill just have to spam dance harder as I come down from DFA to combat that issue?

 

This spec is destroying me...I changed out my relics and it appears my dps has gone down. Im feeling defeated lol.

 

 

[Valks 2,375]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:01 AM, Nyte said:

Im assuming Ill just have to spam dance harder as I come down from DFA to combat that issue?

 

This spec is destroying me...I changed out my relics and it appears my dps has gone down. Im feeling defeated lol.

 

 

Try to grab a log from WarcraftLogs of you playing/raiding. It'll help Carrn a huge amount the next time he checks this.

[Carrn 284]

On 18/10/2017 at 3:01 AM, Nyte said:

Im assuming Ill just have to spam dance harder as I come down from DFA to combat that issue?

 

This spec is destroying me...I changed out my relics and it appears my dps has gone down. Im feeling defeated lol.

 

 

Have you got more recent logs? What did you change your relics to? 

Spamming Dance as you come down is pretty much the way to solve it yeah. Also make sure that you don't have some weird setting for custom lag tolerance, I use an addon called Advanced Interface Options. Pretty much what that setting does is give yourself a permanent buffer for your spells, so you don't end up with lag spikes. However, if it's set too high, your spells won't ever go off in time, which pretty much means it's impossible to do the DfA > Dance combination

[Nyte 2]

Ya know I thought this was a problem too...maybe you can help in the lag department. I dont have any "lag" per say. I have 250mb line, and zero ping issues, BUT...if for instance i spam shadowstrike, sometimes it will go off 3 times, when im just trying to get it to go off twice before I evisc. Is there a setting I can adjust to fix that? Its almost like it ques up my moves a little too much.

 

Id post new logs but I keep having the same results. 

[Nyte 2]

I also am in debate over a trinket situation...

I have a 905ilvl specter trink,(2106 agi) a 920ilvl Vial of Toxins (2485 agi) and a 935ilvl bloodstained hankerchief (2858 agi). Cant decide which is better. Bloodstained isnt even listed as a viable trinket so, im lost.

[Nyte 2]

910 Fel relic (fortunes bite, secure in the light, energetic stabbing)

935 shadow relic (energetic, torment 3rd not unlocked yet)

930 Fel relic (energetic, torment, 3rd not unlocked yet. 

 

Working on trying to farm out another (better) Fel relic for my first slot.

[AlausBaronas 0]

13 hours ago, Nyte said:

Ya know I thought this was a problem too...maybe you can help in the lag department. I dont have any "lag" per say. I have 250mb line, and zero ping issues, BUT...if for instance i spam shadowstrike, sometimes it will go off 3 times, when im just trying to get it to go off twice before I evisc. Is there a setting I can adjust to fix that? Its almost like it ques up my moves a little too much.

 

Id post new logs but I keep having the same results. 

I would love to hear some input for this too, as im having the same problem :/

[Nyte 2]

It appears Ive fixed the "lag" problem with Advanced Interface options. My ping is usually 40-50, i set my custom lag tolerance to 51 and it seems to be firing properly now. This week after I run my TOS Heroic ill post the logs and see if I get any different results. Still..questions on the relics and trinks exist.

[Valks 2,375]

On 10/25/2017 at 8:43 AM, AlausBaronas said:

I would love to hear some input for this too, as im having the same problem :/

See above post from OP, details how to fix.

[Valks 2,375]

14 hours ago, Nyte said:

It appears Ive fixed the "lag" problem with Advanced Interface options. My ping is usually 40-50, i set my custom lag tolerance to 51 and it seems to be firing properly now. This week after I run my TOS Heroic ill post the logs and see if I get any different results. Still..questions on the relics and trinks exist.

For the trinkets, you can run a sim on it here for ST/multi: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/gear

The rest, I'll have to leave for Carrn.

[Carrn 284]

On 24/10/2017 at 8:58 PM, Nyte said:

I also am in debate over a trinket situation...

I have a 905ilvl specter trink,(2106 agi) a 920ilvl Vial of Toxins (2485 agi) and a 935ilvl bloodstained hankerchief (2858 agi). Cant decide which is better. Bloodstained isnt even listed as a viable trinket so, im lost.

Ooh man, tough call. Napkin math says that the on-use for Hankerchief is about 7k DPS. Vial is 4.5k from the use every minute and 7.3 from the DoT for a combined 11.8k DPS without resets. Specter is 18.8k if you hit both reflections.

That doesn't factor in the missing Agi from not using a higher ilevel trinket, but especially if you can get resets on Vial I would go Specter and Vial.

They're probably close, and you should sim them to be sure

On 24/10/2017 at 9:00 PM, Nyte said:

910 Fel relic (fortunes bite, secure in the light, energetic stabbing)

935 shadow relic (energetic, torment 3rd not unlocked yet)

930 Fel relic (energetic, torment, 3rd not unlocked yet. 

 

Working on trying to farm out another (better) Fel relic for my first slot.

The relics should be simmed - you can use the spreadsheet I linked earlier to do your own math, or download an addon like CrucibleWeight and input the pawn strings from that same spreadsheet and have it do the math for you.

Remember that when you're looking at the effective ilevel for each trait that you're looking at the levels added to the weapon and not the ilevel of the relic itself

[Nyte 2]

Hey Carn, just wanted to say thanks to you...(and everyone else) for the help.

Small update...relics have been adjusted...leggo shoulders acquired...and the numbers now shine. Im roughly in the 3mil DPS range now on the opener, and then it slowly slides down to about 1.1 (depending on the fight) I was struggling to pull 1.1 period before. So all your help def has made a difference. Average DPS now is 1.5 ish, again, depending on the fight. Appreciate everything.

 

Regards, 

Noob Rogue.

[Carrn 284]

5 hours ago, Nyte said:

Hey Carn, just wanted to say thanks to you...(and everyone else) for the help.

Small update...relics have been adjusted...leggo shoulders acquired...and the numbers now shine. Im roughly in the 3mil DPS range now on the opener, and then it slowly slides down to about 1.1 (depending on the fight) I was struggling to pull 1.1 period before. So all your help def has made a difference. Average DPS now is 1.5 ish, again, depending on the fight. Appreciate everything.

 

Regards, 

Noob Rogue.

Super glad to hear it, and congrats on the shoulders! They were my second last one, so I'm pretty jealous lol

1.1M-1.5M sustained is pretty respectable, well done! 

I'm generally always trolling the forums here so PM me or post if you want any more input on min/maxing

[Valks 2,375]

On 11/15/2017 at 2:21 PM, Carrn said:

I'm generally always trolling the forums here

he really is

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Blainie said:

he really is

I'm honestly not sure if this is a positive comment or not :P

[Valks 2,375]

9 hours ago, Carrn said:

I'm honestly not sure if this is a positive comment or not :P

Nothing but positivity :D

[Nyte 2]

My only concern now is, per the guide, it says the gloves and shoulders are the best combo, but Ive yet to see a proper rotation really take advantage of the gloves bonus. Anyone have any input on this? Should I just rock the cuffs instead? I feel like the rotation doesnt play into the gloves bonus...considering during the rotation youre always trying to Symbols + DFA. Any input would be appreciated!

[Carrn 284]

5 hours ago, Nyte said:

My only concern now is, per the guide, it says the gloves and shoulders are the best combo, but Ive yet to see a proper rotation really take advantage of the gloves bonus. Anyone have any input on this? Should I just rock the cuffs instead? I feel like the rotation doesnt play into the gloves bonus...considering during the rotation youre always trying to Symbols + DFA. Any input would be appreciated!

Gloves and Bracers are incredibly close - you'll see both of them getting regular use on top level parses - and I personally recommend the Bracers because you don't have to relearn the rotation and can keep your muscle memory intact

That said, this is what the opener with the Gloves should look like, if you want to give them a shot

[Narik 1]

On 10/15/2017 at 4:43 AM, Carrn said:

As an extra note, your relics could really use some upgrading. Higher ilevel is rarely the best choice, and you can check to see which relics will benefit you on this spreadsheet here

Can you explain this spreadsheet briefly? Is the left column (ilvl Value) supposed to be added directly to the iLvl of the relic to find "total iLvl"? If so, is the math here correct? Looking at subtlety and Energetic stabbing, it says that ES is 1.42% dps gain and that you gain .16% dps per weapon iLVL. How does that math (1.42% / .16% =~ 8.9) come out to the listed value of 28.81 iLVL's for ES? Is it assuming you have "all 3" and thats how you get 3x the value (which is still only 26.6, not 28.8)?

thx

[Narik 1]

Ah I think I figured it out, the iLVL is relic iLVL, and the ~3.5 is the relic::weapon iLVL conversion factor.

[Carrn 284]

18 hours ago, Narik said:

Ah I think I figured it out, the iLVL is relic iLVL, and the ~3.5 is the relic::weapon iLVL conversion factor.

Pretty much. I don't look at the % increases, just at how many theoretical ilevels each trait gives to the weapon