Trinket Proc question

[Gruson 0]

Hi guys,

 

I have tried looking around google for this, not sure how to search for it exactly.

 

Basically I am wondering about how trinket procs work with casting spells.  Lets say I have 1s left on wush, and I start casting a chaos bolt, if the trinket proc falls off before it leaves my hands OR hits the target do I not get the proc to affect that casted chaos bolt?  Is the trinket proc affecting spells that hit the target at time of proc, or is it affecting spells that are cast AND leaving the hands of caster while the trinket is up?

 

Also in line with this, from an affliction standpoint I was wondering with channel spells and trinket procs as well.  Same scenario I have wush up with 1s and I start channeling MG.  if the trinket falls off I am assuming the mg will retain the strength when i started channeling it (during the trinket proc)?

 

 

Sorry if these are fairly common knowledge questions, I just started playing WoW and have been raiding now for about 2months ^^

 

thanks for any help you can give

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zagam 1,982]

Fundamental Rule about casts and DoTs:

 

Cast spells' damage are ALWAYS calculated at the EXECUTION OF THE CAST.  When Chaos Bolt's cast time reaches 0.0 and leaves your hand, it snap shots damage.  Travel time is irrelevant.

 

DoT spells' damage are ALWAYS calculated at the TIME OF APPLICATION.  No matter what, when your DoTs are applied, they are snapshotted. 

 

It doesn't matter how long trinkets have or what have you.  If you start casting a CB with 1 second left of a trinket, you ain't getting it buffed.  If your CB gets casted and your trinket falls off while it's on its way to your target's face, it'll hit like it had the trinket up. 

 

I'm not 100% on MG and DS, as they are channeled, but I BELIEVE they update dynamically.  Regardless, the damage of MG and DS are so small, the modification to them is largely irrelevant.

[Storm 426]

Trinket proc's are calculated when the spell finishes casting, not when you begin casting the spell.

 

In the case of channeled spells as well as dots. any buffs whether trinkets, potions, or fight specific buffs, that are active when you begin channeling a spell, or first apply a dot will last for the entire duration of the spell.

 

edit: Zagam isn't sure on the channeled spells, but I'm like 99% sure channeled spells are treated the same as dot's. at least that's the way it always was for a shadow priest with Mind Flay.

[Zagam 1,982]

I would say with about 95% confidence that trinket proc's are calculated when the spell hits the target, not when you begin casting the spell.

 

In the case of channeled spells as well as dots. any buffs whether trinkets, potions, fight specific buffs, that are active when you begin channeling a spell, or first apply a dot will last for the entire duration of the spell.

I am 100% confident in my statement.  Casts = spell execution for snapshot.  DoTs = spell application. 

 

Test it to prove it.  Get a big trinket proc and finish your CB cast while the trinket is ending so it hits its target after the trinket effect fades.  It will still hit super hard.  If you cast a CB and a trinket procs while it's on its way, it will NOT gain that trinkets benefit.

 

You can prove this also by starting to cast a spell and then getting Bloodlust.  The Haste of this spell will NOT be modified dynamically and you'll notice it upon your next cast.

[Peatzah 0]

The spell that is being casted takes your stats when it is finished casting. If you start casting a chaos bolt, and Immolate procs bindings while you are still casting chaos bolt, that cb will have the increased damage from the proc.

 

Edit: heh, didnt see that i had this tab open for about 40 minutes before responding to it. a lot of redundant information.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Peatzah

[Rakupenda 15]

I am 100% confident in my statement.  Casts = spell execution for snapshot.  DoTs = spell application. 

 

Test it to prove it.  Get a big trinket proc and finish your CB cast while the trinket is ending so it hits its target after the trinket effect fades.  It will still hit super hard.  If you cast a CB and a trinket procs while it's on its way, it will NOT gain that trinkets benefit.

 

You can prove this also by starting to cast a spell and then getting Bloodlust.  The Haste of this spell will NOT be modified dynamically and you'll notice it upon your next cast.

I did this test on UVLS during ToT for Chaos Bolt. It is calculatedwhen it leaves your hand, not when you begin casting. If it did, if you begin casting Chaos Bolt at the very end of a UVLS proc, it expires before the cast is finished, and your Chaos Bolt will be pitifully lacking the extra damage. Vice versa: if you're casting Chaos Bolt and your trinket procs (or 4p!!!) before you finish casting, you will benefit from the extra buffs.

[Zagam 1,982]

I did this test on UVLS during ToT for Chaos Bolt. It is calculatedwhen it leaves your hand, not when you begin casting. If it did, if you begin casting Chaos Bolt at the very end of a UVLS proc, it expires before the cast is finished, and your Chaos Bolt will be pitifully lacking the extra damage. Vice versa: if you're casting Chaos Bolt and your trinket procs (or 4p!!!) before you finish casting, you will benefit from the extra buffs.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or arguing.  I already said it is calculated upon EXECUTION of the cast.  I just made the point about Haste not updating dynamically within long spell casts. 

[Omaric 246]

Most likely thought that by "execute" you meant "begin" the cast.  Much like, "Let's execute Plan Alpha Strike Z Quadrant Zebra Zombies", would actually mean to start it rather than finish it.

[Rakupenda 15]

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or arguing.  I already said it is calculated upon EXECUTION of the cast.  I just made the point about Haste not updating dynamically within long spell casts. 

Sorry, I should have phrased it better. I was confirming what you said.

 

I'll do some tests for MG tonight.

[Zagam 1,982]

Most likely thought that by "execute" you meant "begin" the cast.  Much like, "Let's execute Plan Alpha Strike Z Quadrant Zebra Zombies", would actually mean to start it rather than finish it.

When you execute a cast, you finish it.  I guess people use that word a little more loosely.  Typically, in my world, I would replace the word "execute" with "initiate" to indicate the beginning of something to avoid confusion.  The execution of a plan is to completely pull it off.  When you say let's execute something, you would typically mean you completely 100% intend to COMPLETE it, but you'd still be using the word incorrectly. 

 

Back on point, END of cast = snapshotting.

[Zagam 1,982]

For the curious:

 

ex·e·cute

[ éksə kyt ]

 

1.put to death: to kill somebody as part of a legal or extralegal process

2.perform action: to complete an action or movement, especially one requiring skill

3.carry out intention: to put an instruction or plan into effect

 

I'd say casting a spell would fall much more in line with #2 than any of the others.

[Storm 426]

I am 100% confident in my statement.  Casts = spell execution for snapshot.  DoTs = spell application. 

 

 

 

That's what I meant in mine too. I originally put 95% sure but then you beat me to posting by like 2min and said basically the same thing. I also edited my post because I also originally put when it hits the target, because I overlooked that there is actually a difference between casting the spell and hitting the target because some spells have a travel time to reach the target.

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah.  It's fine as long as we answered the original question.  Likely went into a ton of unnecessary detail, but hell, that's the fun in it.  Travel time is ridiculous.  It needs to not happen.  Ever cast a Chaos Bolt at a Paladin on a mount running from you?  They almost travel at the same speed.

[Deathly 0]

Hi,

Im having problems with my destroy lock. I am now 548 ilvl and I stacked haste over mastery where I was using mastery as best stat. I simmed her today and it said haste, crit , mastery. I am also having problems being way over hit. I used to be at 15.03 and now am over 17 percent with this gear and even reforging out of hit I am still over 17 percent. I don't know what to do about trinkets either. I have the lfr bindings but when I simmed her it said she had more dps with my orig trinks.. woosh and breath of hydra.. so now sure to leave them or use new LFR bindings?

All I know is my damage is lower than it used to be.. by a lot and I don't know whether I should still be reforging with mastery as best stat or not going against the Sim and idk if the problem with the hit cap is effecting me and then there is the question of the trinks

thanks

Decayn

[Deathly 0]

Also I just looted KTT so use that with woosh for destroy? and get rid of hydra?

thx

D

[Rakupenda 15]

MG does not update dynamically for procs. It is like just like applying a dot. If your 2p procs, recast MG to get the 15% benefit. If 2p proc falls off, complete the MG cast (assuming nothing else needs to be reapplied) to get the full benefit. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Hi,

Im having problems with my destroy lock. I am now 548 ilvl and I stacked haste over mastery where I was using mastery as best stat. I simmed her today and it said haste, crit , mastery. I am also having problems being way over hit. I used to be at 15.03 and now am over 17 percent with this gear and even reforging out of hit I am still over 17 percent. I don't know what to do about trinkets either. I have the lfr bindings but when I simmed her it said she had more dps with my orig trinks.. woosh and breath of hydra.. so now sure to leave them or use new LFR bindings?

All I know is my damage is lower than it used to be.. by a lot and I don't know whether I should still be reforging with mastery as best stat or not going against the Sim and idk if the problem with the hit cap is effecting me and then there is the question of the trinks

thanks

Decayn

Have you actually read any of the other guides here?  All of your answers can be found.  Quit using Simcraft as your DPS Bible.  Quit using so much gear with Hit.  Simcraft always models trinkets with optimal use.  Using RPPM trinkets and using every proc for a Chaos Bolt will yield better theoretical damage in Simcraft.  It depends on how well you are playing Destruction.  Moving your stats around should not have created a massive drop in DPS...there must be some gameplay issue at hand. 

 

Regardless, stacking Haste is a no no for all 3 Warlock specs.

[Deathly 0]

yes, I read your guide on destro. I only have this gear that I have on and it has me at this hit cap so not much I can do about that until I get other gear. I have her reforged to Mastery>crit.haste and I switched to gosac. I am using KTT and Woosh

[Zagam 1,982]

yes, I read your guide on destro. I only have this gear that I have on and it has me at this hit cap so not much I can do about that until I get other gear. I have her reforged to Mastery>crit.haste and I switched to gosac. I am using KTT and Woosh

 

Hi,

Im having problems with my destroy lock. I am now 548 ilvl and I stacked haste over mastery where I was using mastery as best stat. I simmed her today and it said haste, crit , mastery. I am also having problems being way over hit.

Which is it?  Regardless, you need to provide logs and an armory to help you with your DPS.  It's IMPOSSIBLE to help you when you give conflicting statements about what you're doing.