Dire Frenzy build is still viable!

[Tru 0]

I really have no clue why this site is telling people that the Dire Frenzy build should not be used on any encounter in Antorus.  Because that is 100% BS.  Maybe once most have moved over to mythic tier completely, then maybe thats a possibility. But i doubt it, im sure it will still be amazing single target just like it has been the past 2 tiers. When im using a pure Dire Frenzy build and still hitting parses above 90 (99 in some cases) on every single target fight.  To say the build is just completely useless for this raid is misinforming people.

[Banard 61]

1 hour ago, Tru said:

I really have no clue why this site is telling people that the Dire Frenzy build should not be used on any encounter in Antorus.  Because that is 100% BS.  Maybe once most have moved over to mythic tier completely, then maybe thats a possibility. But i doubt it, im sure it will still be amazing single target just like it has been the past 2 tiers. When im using a pure Dire Frenzy build and still hitting parses above 90 (99 in some cases) on every single target fight.  To say the build is just completely useless for this raid is misinforming people.

Here we go again...

First and please get this clear. Every conversation about DF on this fourm was from ToS not Antorus.

I will repeat FOR TOS. The end of the conversation was it was a moot point now b/c Antorus is coming out soon.  So..stop trolling? 

but lets take a look at it...

All we know from Antorus at this point is there are multiple paths of gearing a BM hunter to get similar sims. The highest sims posted on this website is with 4 set T20 and  2 Set T1 with Roar and Soul, Stomp and Killer Cobra. 

But that is sims...so lets see what people are getting with top parses for heroic on some top servers: 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/123/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/150/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/99/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

 

Yes, there a few good parses with Dire Frenzy for the beginning bosses but they are rare and disappear later in the raid.  There also appears to be no clear winner with Killer cobra vs aspect of the beast (i see this changing going forward as more people get 2 set teir 21). 

I see a mess of trinket combos and a mess of leggo combos. At this point, although there are some very small samples of DF doing well, stomp is the clear winner. 

 

Looking at mythic ranking for the first boss : 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/17#boss=2076&class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery

 

We see only one person has DF in the top 100 is in the #2 spot.  So it can do well, but it is not the normal.  The point to ponder is if that person went stomp could he have done more? 

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2GuLxnGHmuQGmj9vLcrv1q

If that link dont work, the sims says he can increase his dps by 1.3% if he switched to stomp & one with the pack.  i.e maybe he could of been #1 not #2.  (assuming the crucible doesn't effect the outcome, to lazy to do a detail sim) 

I see another clear winner. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Banard

[Khallid 110]

It's a tier thing, and as Banard said that's based mostly on gear from ToS. If you're still wearing Tier 19 2-piece, Dire Frenzy will fall short by a significant margin (my own sims say 7% dps loss). Once you're able to drop it the gap between Stomp and Dire Frenzy should be small enough to make both viable. I would expect both talents to be within 2% of each other or something around that. Dire Frenzy should also synergize better with Tier 21 4-piece than Stomp does, but I don't know at the moment if it's overall a better build or not, since the T21 4-piece bonus is still looking lackluster. I don't have any T21 tier at the moment so I haven't done that many sims on it.

Tier 19 will start to fade out once you get very high ilvl T21 to replace it with (or if your T19 was low ilvl to begin with). A lot of top parsing Hunters are doing that. The guy with the Dire Frenzy top parse has 953 item level, he's wearing T20 4-piece and T21 2-piece, which is consistent with what I just said.

I think the reason the guide now has Stomp as the "standard build" and Dire Frenzy as the "optional build" is because most top players are using Stomp. Sims seem to favor Stomp, but the margin is small, so it's not a dealbreaker to use DIre Frenzy at all.

 

TL:DR: If you're not using Tier 19, Dire Frenzy is fine, and you should get the Tier 21 2-piece in order to stop using Tier 19.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Khallid

[Banard 61]

2 hours ago, Khallid said:

 since the T21 4-piece bonus is still looking lackluster. I don't have any T21 tier at the moment so I haven't done that many sims on it.

I got two pieces i wanted (shoulders and pants) and ^^*(^ coined 2 pieces i did not want. No matter what i do i cant get that 4 set bonus to be a increase. 

The two i got wanted are decent too, went from 905 T19 shoulders to 965 T21 and 905 T pants to 950 T21 with a socket!  

Edited December 7, 2017 by Banard

[Luthixx 138]

8 hours ago, Tru said:

I really have no clue why this site is telling people that the Dire Frenzy build should not be used on any encounter in Antorus. 

It doesn't say that? In fact it's almost recommended to do so after you replace T19 with T21 provided you have the appropriate gear for it. Zoo build is now only marginally ahead once you lose T19, and loses some of it's effectiveness on AoE, which DF build (depending on your RNG) can more than make up for with higher stacks of the DF speed buff.

Can you please stop complaining about issues that you're making up, if you at all bothered to look at the BM home page written by Azortharion, it shows the DF build as the highest sim. ToS was an entirely different kettle of fish, where the zoo build was essentially the only viable option if you wanted to be a top parsing and top performing BM hunter.

In all honesty, your best bet is quitting BM now and rerolling MM, as our 4pc T21 is utterly horrendous and MM got a significant boost, which is even better for AoE fights, for which there are quite a few in Antorus. All of ToS, the other MM hunters I would face would be equal to or below my dps, now I'm honestly just struggling to find any use in BM as it's never been a spec that scales well with ilvl. Sub 20% I get left behind by our guild's other hunter that's MM, and I go from even the whole fight to about 200k dps below him because we have no execute.

[Banard 61]

14 hours ago, Luthixx said:

 

Can you please stop complaining about issues that you're making up, if you at all bothered to look at the BM home page written by Azortharion, it shows the DF build as the highest sim.

You are blind or i am blind. I am seeing top sim on that page as 2 t21, 4 T20, roar, soul, stomp and killer cobra. 

[Prettylady 1]

I'm still surprised QaPla doesn't sim highest with t21 given that t21 is all about Kill Command. Was secretly hoping for a QaPla/CotW BiS.

I suspect there'll be a few outliers too. Like, High Command and Heroic Aggramar are great fights for Sephuz, since you can keep it proccing almost constantly.

[Luthixx 138]

On 12/8/2017 at 10:22 PM, Banard said:

You are blind or i am blind. I am seeing top sim on that page as 2 t21, 4 T20, roar, soul, stomp and killer cobra. 

You are right, I am indeed blind! That's the exact build I'm running currently now that I've got my 2pc T21! Was planning on running with shoulders/legs but I got 935 socketed T21 gloves that simmed quite a bit higher than the T21 shoulders, despite my crappy versa/mastery 915 ilvl T20 shoulders.

[Khallid 110]

11 hours ago, Prettylady said:

I'm still surprised QaPla doesn't sim highest with t21 given that t21 is all about Kill Command. Was secretly hoping for a QaPla/CotW BiS.

I suspect there'll be a few outliers too. Like, High Command and Heroic Aggramar are great fights for Sephuz, since you can keep it proccing almost constantly.

Qa'pla doesn't work very well with Killer Cobra though, which is the combo that would get the highest amount of Kill Commands. I'm at 49% crit using Qa'pla and Aspect of the Beast and I cast around the same amount of Kill Commands than another BM hunter in my group who uses Killer Cobra (without Qa'pla). So while it probably works okay the amount of crit needed to make Qa'pla cast significantly extra Kill Commands is not even possible. Qa'pla is still a strong legendary if your crit chance is high simply because it's a good effect. Call of the WIld is actually simming near the bottom of legendaries right now. The T21 4-piece effect is simply not strong enough, and most people aren't even using it.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Khallid

[Banard 61]

On 09/12/2017 at 8:13 PM, Luthixx said:

You are right, I am indeed blind! That's the exact build I'm running currently now that I've got my 2pc T21! Was planning on running with shoulders/legs but I got 935 socketed T21 gloves that simmed quite a bit higher than the T21 shoulders, despite my crappy versa/mastery 915 ilvl T20 shoulders.

I using prdya instead of soul with the same set up of tier/talent. 1-2% dps lost for that shield. Plus at the moment i have no other neck. 

I am using T21 pants and shoulders thou....my heroic shoulders titanforge too 965 (first tier to titanforge all xpac) and my T21 pants warforged to 950 with a socket. 

 

Now i need to find a mythic TOS pug. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Banard

[Luthixx 138]

18 hours ago, Banard said:

I using prdya instead of soul with the same set up of tier/talent. 1-2% dps lost for that shield. Plus at the moment i have no other neck. 

I am using T21 pants and shoulders thou....my heroic shoulders titanforge too 965 (first tier to titanforge all xpac) and my T21 pants warforged to 950 with a socket. 

 

Now i need to find a mythic TOS pug. 

Have since gone back to AotB because there are too many fights and opportunities to use Sephuz that it's just too nice, and if I'm not running that I run Qa'pla with Soul. AotB is far smoother and to be honest I feel a lot more enjoyable because it's the same playstyle the whole time rather than burst phase normal phase. 

Grats on the titanforges - I got 960 titanforge legs first heroic kill and I have 935 socketed gloves, but waiting on tier shoulders since I have 935 socketed T20 gloves. Feeling like a lot of the relics that drop are a surprising upgrade for me - got a 955 iron relic with % cobra shot damage and % KC damage as 3rd tier that was significantly higher than a 945 iron with jaws and cobra shot focus reduction as 3rd tier. Feeling very strange...

[Banard 61]

5 hours ago, Luthixx said:

Feeling like a lot of the relics that drop are a surprising upgrade for me -

This raid is full of good quality relics for BM hunters which is fantastic after bleh TOS and pure garbage greater invasions.