Ret DPS Questions (Stat priority, sims)

[Exploit 1]

Hi everyone,

I, like many others, are trying to maximize DPS for their respective classes, mine in particular being ret paladin.

In general, it seems like there are several sources of information for dps for each class.

1. Icy Veins
2. Mr Robot
3. Raidbots (Simulation Craft)
4. Warcraft Logs

Each with its own set of criteria as to what determines high dps. And I find inconsistency when bouncing between the different sources. I want to understand what am I missing when it comes to each. I will lay out what I currently understand, and would like some feedback as to what I may not be considering in each as well as some advice as to what other options I could be exploring (resources) to further the insight into whats applicable for my current state.

Icy Veins

For Icy Veins, in particular, the stat weights, are mostly vaguely determined. From the ret guide:
 

Quote

 

"The stat priority for Retribution Paladins is listed below.

1. Mastery ~= Haste;
2. Versatility ~= Critical Strike = Strength.

These statistics have been obtained by combining common sense, in-game testing, and simulations using Simulation Craft."

 

If I am reading this right, its Mastery >= Haste > Ver >= Crit = Str

Mr Robot

I use the addOn and I subscribe for the Best In Bags function. When I plug in my information in, the site recommends that I go with my 2pce t20 and balance around my legendaries with a focus on haste pieces (haste gems are emphasized).

https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/a42136294c7f40b2b7ee78023306d786

Stat weights as listed in MrRobot:

MrRobot Stat Weights

From what I am seeing, Crit is most emphasized, and the one crit gem + ring crit enchants were originally recommended by MrRobot here. Also another notable thing here is haste being way behind crit's potential.

RaidBots (Simc)

For RaidBots, I use the addOn, and play around with various items I hoard, and use the stat weights functions. Generally the feedback I get here are to stick with the current gem setup and with regards to stat weights, emphasize at my current setup with crit. It also says I should drop some of my high ilvl pieces (935 head, and 960 chest) for 4pce (915 head, lfr 890 chest)

Gear simc:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3Qbkf6nqpoP4bxQ9YB2m

Stat Weights:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NkVYwEaTW26FxD4wBwey4

Vers -> crit -> mastery -> haste -> str

(versitality first?)

Warcraft Logs

I mostly use Warcraft Logs to check what the top dps players (ret pallys) are hitting and what setups are they running. I don't want to specifically link player armories in here, but upon some investigation, you'll find most are just stacking haste

---

I understand stat weights are relative, however it seems like everyone has different priorities, one says mastery, another vers, another crit, another haste?

Help me understand.

Thanks,
Exploit

 

 

[Shishikyu 11]

Retribution is one of those class specs where stat weights change all the time, depending on your current gear.

Just keep this in mind: 

1. 12.5% Haste: This is where you gain an additional global cooldown during Judgment. You will now be able to push out multiple Holy Power spenders before the debuff expires. Playing below this level of haste is a miserable experience. Don’t do it.
    
2. 31.25% Haste: This is where you gain a second global cooldown during Judgment. It’s also the point at which you can maintain 100% effective uptime on the Judgment debuff (where the only ability you use when Judgment isn’t up is Judgment itself). Your rotation is now greatly simplified because you rarely need to worry about whether or not you should wait to use a holy power spender until Judgment is off cooldown.

Further, haste is always good to go for. If you have tier 21, mastery increases in value a lot. But generally all secondary stats are super close in value at all times. Just try to balance it a bit. If you have a lot of one stat, try to gain more in the others, etc. 

Also I suggest using this site for Retribution-only info: http://www.thesilverhand.net/

 

 

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:53 PM, Exploit said:

I understand stat weights are relative, however it seems like everyone has different priorities, one says mastery, another vers, another crit, another haste?

I can't speak for the other sites, since I don't know enough about what they do to actually work things out (AMR uses a custom sim that they created, no idea how it works), but:

We recommend Mastery = Haste > Vers = Crit = Str because it's a global stat priority. This is a general thing that anyone in the current tier of content can follow and see good results with. The "~" is there to signify approximately. There is no guarantee that Mastery and Haste are completely equal. For you, they might be, but in the majority of cases, they won't be. Haste or Mastery can pull ahead.

Personally, I always put the most faith (for a completely personal stat weight) in SimCraft/RaidBots, since I normally see the least issues with it. I'm not speaking ill of AMR, it might be a perfectly valid tool that is ahead of others, but in the past, I have seen it almost always disagree with SimC.

After running your character through RaidBots, your priority is:

Haste > Crit > Vers > Mastery > Str

29.27 > 27.96 > 26.98 > 25.51 > 21.64

The top parsing Ret Paladin on Garothi has this priority in RaidBots:

Vers > Crit > Mastery > Haste > Str

36.27 > 35.36 > 35.18 > 34.79 > 26.20

As you can see, you have very different stat priorities. This is mainly due to him having 9% more Haste than you, for example. He has 15% more Mastery than you, but due to him using some of the T21 set, the weight is similar for you both. It's not much of a priority for you yet, and he already has "enough" in comparison to other stats. However, for him, Mastery and Crit are nearly identical in value, with Haste being very close behind.

His priority would likely be Vers >= Crit = Mastery = Haste > Str, with Vers dropping rapidly once he has more of it.

Every single piece of gear you change will change the weights, possibly even completely swapping them. We simply post a general priority.

[Exploit 1]

@Shishikyu Thanks for that resource, I'll look into it in more detail.

@Blainie Thanks for the clarification. I think I am at the border from Crit = Haste at this point, one gem turns the Stat Weights around. I wanted to know with the Eye of Command being my trinket (crit stacks as I stick to a target) does that affect how I should weigh my other stats? I am not sure if Simc considers that overtime in its simulations. Maybe making haste more valuable as it ramps up? Want to know your thoughts here.

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Exploit said:

@Blainie Thanks for the clarification. I think I am at the border from Crit = Haste at this point, one gem turns the Stat Weights around. I wanted to know with the Eye of Command being my trinket (crit stacks as I stick to a target) does that affect how I should weigh my other stats? I am not sure if Simc considers that overtime in its simulations. Maybe making haste more valuable as it ramps up? Want to know your thoughts here.

SimC will factor it in, yeah, but you have to remember what SimC is actually testing. You have perfect uptime of it on a single boss, with it never swapping from that boss as your target. The weights it provides will be true assuming you stay on that target, but it will change if you are swapping targets. 

Realistically, there are barely any bosses that you will use EoC on that you need to swap targets on often enough that it will skew gearing. You'll never use EoC on Eonar, for example, which is where it would change the most.