Destruction Nerf Inevitable

[Ilion 8]

That's a little rude, just because warriors should be able to keep the titular ability. Otherwise though, it is interesting how widespread the mechanic has become. 

 

 

Remove execute as a spell, then bake it into "Glyph of execution" which lets you turn critters into a explosion of blood, gore and innards.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Remove execute as a spell, then bake it into "Glyph of execution" which lets you turn critters into a explosion of blood, gore and innards.

 

Problem solved.

[Brown 14]

shadowburn raised would be a huge buff for 25m, meh for ten man. Rather see them revert the imp nerf to Demo.

Wouldn't mind if they reverted some part of the nerf instead of beating imps with the nerf bat then throwing them into the nerf field where a firing squad shot more nerfs at them.

 

Still amazed that they didn't foresee this from making UVoLS and, I dunno, reading their own tooltips.

[Jiujitsu 0]

they arent nerfing destro, they just buffed it, they wont nerf it on the very next patch. I had to play destro when it was shitty in 5.3, and now destro has gotten the love it needed to many people are bitching. I still see Mages at the top of the list as well as rogues.

 

If you play any class well enough then you will do more damage than a destro warlock with the same ilvl that doesnt play it well. 

 

My destro lock is ilvl 558 and I still get smashed by Mages and Rogues but im not bitching about them.

[raz27 0]

they arent nerfing destro, they just buffed it, they wont nerf it on the very next patch. I had to play destro when it was shitty in 5.3, and now destro has gotten the love it needed to many people are bitching.

I put me on the side - bitching about destro - aswell . I telling you why also , is not same thing to play destro , push 2-3 buttons and a execute (can watch tv in same time ) and have a great dps comparing with playing aff where you have to track your dots , manage your cds , or also play demo manage your fury with a more complex rotation. In my oppinion is not fair.

[Silverman 0]

Demonology and affliction are not more complicated, than destruction. If you don't manage to use your procs and cds properly, then you also will not see too much of the destructiondps. F.e. I love demonology(yes even after the nerfs^^) and it's more easy for me to play demonology, than destruction. The amount of buttons you have to push is the same for every specc (destruction 7-8, demo 7-8, affliction 7-9[9 if you don't use SB:SS macro). The the basic gameplay is also very similar. Build your secondary resource, use the spells which need this resource if they cap or you have strong procs...enjoy.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Silverman

[Ilion 8]

I put me on the side - bitching about destro - aswell . I telling you why also , is not same thing to play destro , push 2-3 buttons and a execute (can watch tv in same time ) and have a great dps comparing with playing aff where you have to track your dots , manage your cds , or also play demo manage your fury with a more complex rotation. In my oppinion is not fair.

 

 

Lol, affliction is even easier than destro.

 

The only difficult spec for warlocks is demonology, you aren't tracking 4 dots in affli, you're tracking 1 set of 4 dots.

[Zagam 1,982]

Alright, it's pretty clear when I make an objective post that subjective comments come out.  I'll be sure to lock my opinion threads since they're easily derailed.  I don't condone attacking comments on here, so let it be known that kinda crap won't be tolerated, either by newbies or veterans of the board.

 

Also, there is no argument about any spec being more complicated than Destruction.  If you think Affliction or Demonology is easier than Destruction, you either aren't doing the latter two very well or you don't fully understand Destruction.  There is no opinion on this...if you know all three specs at an extremely proficient level, Destruction is the simplest.  You can break each spec down into chunks, a common memorization technique that allows people to understand things.  Typically if you go over 7 "chunks" then your brain starts to lose track of them.  Destruction is below 7 while Affliction and Demo are above 7. 

 

you aren't tracking 4 dots in affli, you're tracking 1 set of 4 dots.

This alone proves a lacking understanding of how to optimize DPS for Affliction.  You don't just refresh all of your DoTs blindly.  Overwriting UA or Agony because Corruption shows a higher value is a brutal gameplay mistake.

[Silverman 0]

I haven't said a word, that demonology is easier. I said, that for ME it's easier to play. BIG DIFFERENCE. Overall they are all on the same level. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Easier and simpler are two different terms.  Things can be difficult, yet simple.  Things can be easy and complicated.  Your point is what I've been trying to reach out and say...things SEEM simpler because of a higher understanding, but with equal platforms, there is no argument that Destruction is complicated.

[raz27 0]

I think a very important point is what spec is each person using for lvling . If I lvling a warlock as demo from 1 to 90 I will be always familiar with demo . Depends from pe

rson to person anyway :-P

[Ilion 8]

This alone proves a lacking understanding of how to optimize DPS for Affliction.  You don't just refresh all of your DoTs blindly.  Overwriting UA or Agony because Corruption shows a higher value is a brutal gameplay mistake.

 

Yeah, whatever.

 

Most times when you get procs, you'll have better values for all dots. If anyone is overwriting a Full Buffed Agony because of Corruption, he's an idiot.

 

I'm not saying you can use affliction being braindead, but still, it's easier than destruction. Some of you like it and think it's more complex because you have 3 bars in affdots instead of one, but it's not.

[Silverman 0]

My point is actually not to say, that demo is simpler than destruction or destruction is simpler than demo. But that they are overall on the same level, if you understand the basic mechanics. The rest is just a little bit practice. The amount of practice with certain skills (not game skills, but skills overall), makes it easier to deal with certain situations. So if you practice one skill more than the other, then the skill you practiced is easier for you to perform and thats not a point of understanding or knowing(and that is also a fact and not an opinion).

Back to WoW. If you can play destruction, demonology and affliction on the same level, then you can say, that destruction is a little bit simpler, but overall they are at an equal level. The point of my first post was to say, that it doesn't matter, if destruction is a little bit simpler. The skill-requiement of the speccs(to "master" them) isn't that different. But it's just my opinion.

 

But let's drop this point or we will write thousand of posts and won't come to a consensus.

[Zagam 1,982]

You should be applying UA twice as much as you are applying Agony.  UA is much more difficult to maintain higher uptime because of its shorter duration.  Since it is the most powerful DoT now, higher emphasis comes into using Pandemic to its highest effect by getting UA applied IMMEDIATELY when a proc happens and again when the proc is about to end.  Around those times, you must look at your other DoTs and make a judgment call on whether applying with or without Pandemic will be a DPS gain.  Unless you're over-utilizing Soulburn instead of Haunt, your DoT values should vary almost all the time.  Haunt also requires a judgment call if you only have 1 or 2 shards.  Haunt's application requires finesse trying to maximize damage from whatever procs you just got.  This is far more of a complicated thought process to optimize DPS than it is to recast Immolate and use Chaos Bolt as much as possible while procs are up.  You're arguing that Affliction is simple, so if you think Destruction is complex, what part of it is confusing you?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Affliction is not harder to play than destruction, nor is destruction a super complex spec. They're both really simple with nice caveats that can allow you to push higher dps.

 

As Affliction you refresh dots under procs and spend your haunts wisely in order to push dps.

 

As Destruction you manage your embers and treat chaos bolt in a similar fashion to haunt.

 

I dislike it when people try to make out affliction as being a super complex spec when it's really just about watching your weakauras/affdots/whatever.

 

Edit: I'm talking about actual decent level of play and not for beginner's learning the spec. Once you get used to it refreshing dots and using haunt intelligently becomes second nature.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Liquidsteel

[Ilion 8]

You're arguing that Affliction is simple, so if you think Destruction is complex, what part of it is confusing you?

 

I'm not saying that Destruction is complex.

 

To be honest, I think Destruction and Affliction are quite simple. Maybe it's just that I don't think that having to make quick judgements is what makes something complex.

 

On the other hand, I find demonology quite complex, having to manage 2 resources and 2 completely different dots is something I find complex.

 

 

EDIT: Completely agree with Shizwix.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Ilion

[Zagam 1,982]

Complex is a relative term.  I'm not sure I argued that it was complex whereas I did argue that it was MORE complex than Destruction.  I think I justified that with the poll that I made public a few months ago where people rated Destruction at a 2.1, Affliction at a 3.2, and Demonology at a 3.8 in terms of difficulty on a scale of 1-5.  That's my order of difficulty from knowing each spec inside and out as well as the public overall feel of the specs.  Individuals will always have their own opinion, but complexity is different that difficulty. 

 

Complexity is objective.  Difficulty is subjective. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Once you get used to it refreshing dots and using haunt intelligently becomes second nature.

This is every spec in the game.  With enough practice, it all becomes second nature.  The DIFFICULTY decreases, but the COMPLEXITY does not. 

 

I just feel like people are confusing complexity with difficulty.  One never changes and the other changes with experience.

[raz27 0]

You guys are going in complex explanations , I' ll do it more simple :

Go on the target dummy ,click on it and turn of your monitor Try to dps for 5 min with your monitor off . Myself , i can do a decent dps as destro in blind mode , can't say same thing about aff or demo, if you guys can , all the best

[Ilion 8]

You guys are going in complex explanations , I' ll do it more simple :

Go on the target dummy ,click on it and turn of your monitor Try to dps for 5 min with your monitor off . Myself , i can do a decent dps as destro in blind mode , can't say same thing about aff or demo, if you guys can , all the best

 

 

So you consider destruction dps without using procs decent? I'm sorry to say I find it nowhere near acceptable.

 

That said, I could do decent dps with both with the screen off, as I use lots of audio alerts on my weakauras :D

[Omaric 246]

Somehow this thread continues to find new ways to devolve.  I'm not even mad, I'm impressed.

[Rakupenda 15]

Complex is a relative term...

Complexity is objective. 

?

[Ilion 8]

Somehow this thread continues to find new ways to devolve.  I'm not even mad, I'm impressed.

 

 

Right now we're in a discussion about the subtle differences between Complexity and Difficulty.

 

Next step is to start discussing classical philosophy.

[Zagam 1,982]

http://www.myextralife.com/comic/very-specific/

 

 

?

Complexity is relative when comparing things if you agree that it is objective.  If you can agree that something can be easy and complex, then you can get behind complexity being objective.  If you can agree that something can be difficult, yet simple, then you can get behind complexity being objective.  Complexity can, again, be a relative term when you compare two different things with varying degrees of complexity.

 

The point I was making is that people are confusing complexity with difficulty which is making people feel attacked or feel they must defend their opinion.

 

Also, to argue this is on topic, my point is that Destruction is very powerful for how easy it is to perform.

[Kazistrasz 216]

The point of going blind is to completely cut off everything, which for you would also mean muting yourself.

 

The point is to develop such familiarity with your rotation and its timing that you you can essentially "sense" when things are off by timing. Back in Ulduar, I knew it well enough to text with my right hand while topping meters with my left (not exaggerating).

 

Now, you bring up a good point, Ilion. Procs. Procs is a higher-level thing. It's similar to martial arts. You train your body to do all of the basics on its own. You don't think about muscles to use to get the power behind it by the end. You don't even think about where that punch is going to go. You think about where in a series of techniques you'll use it to create or take advantage of an opening.

 

Your basic rotation is maintaining Immolate, keeping Conflag on one charge, using Backdraft with Incin, and using Chaos Bolt to avoid hitting 4 embers. Procs aside, that is your default state. It's what you're doing when RNG decides you don't get to have a proc for 55 seconds. It won't get you your full DPS or anywhere near it due to lack of big Chaos Bolt damage. But, becoming familiar with it will help take your mind off of a lot of things when you're in a fight and dealing with mechanics. Think about even normal mode Siegecrafter or Dark Shaman. There's a lot going on in those fights. You have to pay attention to a lot of things. If you have to think about your basic rotation while you're at it, you're not going to have enough bandwith in your brain. You're either going to not do a lot of DPS, or you're going to die and do no DPS. 

 

Now, once you have that basic rotation down and have a good feel for it, turn on only your audio alerts or proc alerts. Train yourself so that those alerts create a muscle memory response (i.e., if you hear BBoY go off you know you have four seconds or so before you need to cast CB, Immo, and CB again, or if you hear PBI go off you know it's time to hit DS and give them hell).

 

The less you think about what you're doing to do damage, the more you can think about handling the fight mechanics and where you're making mistakes in your DPS.