Mistweaving, the Advanced Guide

[Farore 0]

Hello! This guide will attempt to show you how to properly use a Monk healer, and astound everyone in your raids and dungeons! To make it easy, I'll label sections, and make a table of contents sort of thing.

 

 

 

(x) – Into Paragraph

 

1. – Ability Descriptions and Usage

(a) – Stance of the Wise Serpent

(b)  – Jab

© – Tiger's Palm

(d) – Blackout Kick

(e) – Spinning Crane Kick
(f) – Renewing Mists
(g) – Expel Harm
(h) – Jade Serpent Statue

 

2. – Single-target Rotations

(a) – What to do, and when to do it

 

3. – Multi-target Rotations

(a) – How to heal during an AoE fight

 

4. – Talents and Glyphs

(a) – Mana Tea
(b) – Renewing Mists
© – Surging Mists
(d) – Talents
 

     5. – Gear and Stats

(a) What stats do I need?

 

I'll try to stay on topic when in each of these sections, but I may wander a bit, so if you want the full guide, make sure to read through it all!

 

 

 

(x) – Intro Paragraph

 

Mistweavers are perhaps one of the most complex healers there are, when used as they were intended to be. Most people will tell you that Mistweaving revolves around Soothing Mist and Enveloping Mists, but they couldn't be more wrong! A good Mistweaver Monk will top both DPS and HPS charts, rather than be a middle-grade healer with no damage. In this post, I will attempt to show why the guide on this website is wrong, and I will show how to properly play and gear a Mistweaver Monk.

 

Throughout this guide, remember: Fistweaving is not a supplement to Soothing Mist and Enveloping Mists, Eminence is over 50% of your total healing!

 

(1) – Ability Descriptions and Usage

 

To start off, I'll begin with talking about abilities, and why they are important to healing as a Monk.

 

(a) – Stance of the Wise Serpent

 

Stance of the Wise Serpent is our healing stance, though many people don't bother to read all the text in that long tooltip it has! While in Stance of the Wise Serpent, your AP is equal to 200% of your SP, which means your melee abilities will do damage roughly equal to that of a melee DPS. You also gain 50% extra haste from items, which is neat since a lot of our healing spells are HoT effects. Now, here's the important part. This stance grants us a passive effects known as Eminence, which causes 25% of all non-auto damage to become healing on the nearest, most-injured ally within 20 yards – Eminence will amount to over 50% of your healing, so make sure you know about it!

 

(b) – Jab

 

Jab, one of the scariest moves in our spell book; Jab is the most costly move we have, even more so than Surging Mists, so why would we ever use it, right? Jab serves two purposes for a Mistweaver Monk. Firstly, it generates Chi (kind of obvious), but the most important thing it does is that it activates a short-term buff called Muscle Memory, which increases the damage of your next Tiger's Palm or Blackout Kick by 250%, and grants 2% mana upon a successful hit with either ability. This will be one of the most-used abilities in your spell book, even though it is pretty scary! So make your peace with it, because you'll have to work with it all the time, soon!

 

© – Tiger's Palm
 

Tiger's Palm is one of your bigger heal moves (huh?) through Eminence. After you successfully Jab a target, you gain Muscle Memory, causing Tiger's Palm to deal 250% increased damage, and also restore 2% mana (yay!). As you use Tiger's Palm, you also gain a buff called x that reduces the cast time and mana cost of Surging Mists by 20%, which stacks up to 5 times, effectively making Surging Mists free, and instant cast.

 

(d) – Blackout Kick

Blackout Kick is your biggest healing move through Eminence, and also one of the most important abilities to use. As a Mistweaver, Blackout Kick passively hits 5 targets (1 target for 100%, 4 others for 50%), so it obviously heals quite a bit! When you use Blackout Kick while under the effects of Muscle Memory, you'll hit so hard you'd think you were a DPS! The most important feature of this ability is Serpent's Zeal, which is a short-term buff (30 seconds) that causes Eminence to also interact with your auto-attack damage! So while you have Serpent's Zeal active, you will heal for 25% of all your damage, not just non-auto damage! Coupled with a passive effect like Tiger Strikes, that's pretty neat!

(e) – Spinning Crane Kick

Spinning Crane Kick is the only reliable AoE that Monks have, and it has use even for Mistweavers! Once you hit level 34 and gain Teachings of the Monastery, Spinning Crane Kick will passively heal members around you while channeling, which is neat, but not the important part! Spinning Crane Kick functions just like Jab, and gives you Muscle Memory, but only if you hit 3 or more enemies with it! For AoE fights, you can entirely replace Jab with Spinning Crane Kick (it costs a lot less mana too), and you'll do awesome healing!

(f) – Renewing Mists

Renewing Mists is a vital part of healing in raid environments, or when under a lot of stress. The HoT effect this spell has will help you keep people at full HP, even when they're taking heavy damage.

(g) – Expel Harm

Expel Harm is usually good for healing yourself if you take damage, since Eminence heals the closest nearby injured ally, you want to keep yourself at high health so that it doesn't heal you! Expel Harm is also used to generate Chi, and should be used nearly on CD.

(h) – Jade Serpent Statue

The statue literally doubles your healing if you place it in the same area you're at. If you place it beyond 20 yards of yourself, you can spread your healing to two different areas! I'll leave the choice of placement up to you.

(2) – Single-target Rotations

 

(a) – What do to, and when to do it
 

The first rotation I'm going to talk about is for single-target healing, mostly used in raids and PvP.

 

So, Mistweaver healing revolves around keeping Renewing Mists up, as well as dumping out as many empowered (via Muscle Memory) Tiger's Palms and Blackout Kicks as you can. Sounds easy, right? Many people can't actually do this without running out of mana! I'll show you a simple rotation (I expect you to tinker with it!) that will allow you to heal without running out of mana.

Remember, you only want to use Jab one time per Chi-consuming move! Any more than that, and you will run out of mana!

 

To start, place Renewing Mists on either yourself or the person taking damage (if you cast on yourself, it will travel to a tank or the most-injured person around you). Then, use Jab, followed by a Blackout Kick. Now, we have both Renewing Mists up, and we also have Serpent's Zeal on ourself, so now we can start fighting (healing)! After your first Blackout Kick, we have no Chi, so we have to generate Chi somehow, right? We'll start by using Jab, followed by a Tiger's Palm. Then, use Jab again, then use Expel Harm (who would have known it would be useful?), and wrap it up with a Blackout Kick. Since now both Renewing Mists and Expel Harm are on CD, and since we only want to use Jab once per finisher move, what do we do now? Well, now we spam the Jab > Tiger's Palm rotation, until one of those other moves come off CD. Then, we start over from the beginning.

 

That's really all there is to a single-target healing rotation. Follow this, and watch both your DPS and your HPS climb in the charts!

 

(3) Multi-target Rotations

(a) How to heal during an AoE fight

Healing in an AoE fight is a little bit different than a single-target fight, but not much! I'll show you how to do it!

To start off, we're totally ignoring Jab right now (yay!). Instead of using Jab to activate Muscle Memory, we're going to use Spinning Crane Kick (it's a lot prettier, anyway). So, we're going to start out just like our single-target rotation – Cast Renewing Mists on the target of your choice, and then run into the pack of monsters and use Spinning Crane Kick. Now, position yourself so that all the enemies are in front of you, and use Blackout Kick (watch those high numbers fly!). Now, use Spinning Crane Kick again, and then Tiger's Palm to get the armor-piercing buff. Now, Spinning Crane Kick followed by Expel Harm, followed by Blackout Kick. Now, since Spinning Crane Kick costs much less mana than Jab, you can really just spam it to generate Chi, but no more than twice!

That's all there is to it, in an AoE fight!

(4) Talents and Glyphs

(a) – Mana Tea

The Glyph of Mana Tea doesn't seem like it does much at first glance, but if you look at the rotations I showed you earlier in this post, do you see how active you are? There is almost no downtime for a Mistweaver Monk, so keeping the pace of combat flowing is essential to your healing! The glyph for Mana Tea causes it to be instant, and to consume 2 stacks, but gives it a short cool-down. This ability effectively replaces Spirit for us, and is very important to use! Making it instant will maintain both your damage and your healing with no more cost than a GCD.

(b) – Renewing Mists

By default, Renewing Mists travels to the most-injured, closest target within 20 yards. That's great and all, but Eminence goes 20 yards, right? The glyph for Renewing Mists causes the spell to travel to the farthest, most-injured ally within 40 yards, which extends the healing range beyond that of Eminence, enabling you to heal a much larger area.

© – Surging Mists

Surging Mists is one of our most potent healing spells, but you have to target someone to use it, which will interrupt our damage rotation! The glyph makes Surging Mists function much like Renewing Mists, causing it to heal the most-injured ally within 40 yards, with no need to target them! So this becomes essential for a Mistweaver, because it enables us to keep our DPS up, which keeps the healing from Eminence active (plus, it's free Chi!).

(d) – Talents

As for talents, there are a few that I would call mandatory. The first is Celerity, which gives us 3 charges of Roll (I'll explain later.). The second is Chi Wave, which is the absolute best burst DPS and healing talent for a Mistweaver. The third, and most important, is Chi Torpedo. Monk healing is limited to one target at a time, or three with Renewing Mists. Chi Torpedo has no target limit, and actually does quite a bit of healing! So, combined with Celerity, that's some great AoE healing! Chi Torpedo is best used on a stack of enemies or allies, to maximize the use of it's AoE effect.

(5) – Gear and Stats

 

(a) – What stats do I need?

As a Fistweaver (the term for a true Monk healer), there are a couple stats you need, and a few you don't need. I'll make a list of the stats in order of importance.

 

1 – Intellect

2 – Crit

3 – Haste

4 – Spirit

5 – Mastery

 

Intellect and Crit are the most important stats in the Mistweaver's arsenal for a couple reasons. First, Intellect gives a flat increase to SP, which increases your AP, which increases all of your healing! Second, Intellect gives Crit, and Mana Tea has a chance equal to your crit chance to generate double stacks, rather than just one. Since we have to use Mana Tea nearly on CD, it's nice to have at least two stacks to use! Haste both lowers our GCD, and increases the rate of healing by Renewing Mists, allowing that much more healing to get through! Mana Tea effectively replaces Spirit in terms of mana regeneration, but Spirit grants us Hit and Expertise, which are important to our healing style. Do not gem for Spirit, but do not reforge it away, and you'll be fine. Mastery is the least useful stat we have, because people tend to think the healing spheres will bite them. Of course, they do explode after a while and heal by AoE, but it's nothing you want to stack.

 

 

 

That's it for my guide! If there's any questions, please let me know, and I'll make sure to clarify for you. I hope to see more fellow Monks healing effectively! Using the methods of healing I've outlined in this post, you can top both DPS and HPS charts easily, even if you're not very geared!

Edited October 29, 2013 by Farore

[Krazyito 521]

Let me first start off by saying, I have yet to read your entire guide.  I fully intend on doing so, but these are my thoughts right now after reading a specific statement.  If I'm totally wrong because of something I missed, please let me know.

 

(x) – Intro Paragraph

 

Mistweavers are perhaps one of the most complex healers there are, when used as they were intended to be. Most people will tell you that Mistweaving revolves around Soothing Mist and Enveloping Mists, but they couldn't be more wrong! A good Mistweaver Monk will top both DPS and HPS charts, rather than be a middle-grade healer with no damage. In this post, I will attempt to show why the guide on this website is wrong, and I will show how to properly play and gear a Mistweaver Monk.

 

This is what caught my attention.  What I want to say is that while I agree with you, that mistweavers SHOULD be doing a combination of Fistweaving and Mistweaving and SHOULD be doing more damage than the other healers, there is a time and place for each.

 

You are saying that this website is "wrong" when that is not entirely true.  The premise of this website is to teach and to be a resource.  More often than not that only applies to beginners because the more advanced people have already learned what to do or have tested their own ideas.  

 

What you should understand is that Icy-Veins is a starting point and a quick reference check. Its a place where you go to read and ask questions and then grow. Its not a place that is suppose to tell you every single niche and technique about a class or raid encounter.  Those tiny adjustments are for people to make on their own as they learn about the class and grow.  Things that this guide seems to want to accomplish.

 

I appreciate that you call this guide an "Advanced" guide because what I understand what you're trying to do from that intro paragraph is as such.  These forums are meant for exactly these types of topics.  For the beginners that don't know what Expel Harm is, to the experts who are wondering what they can do to maximize their DPS while fistweaving.

 

Hopefully after reading this you understand more of why you shouldn't consider Icy-Veins wrong in their approach to their guide.

 

I am also kindly asking you to re-word your starting paragraph if you agree with what I have said.  If you don't then by all means leave it the way it is.

[Farore 0]

Well, I feel that it is wrong, actually. The guide on this website teaches you how to ignore 70% of the class, and to focus instead on your emergency healing rotations, and rely on solely those. I wouldn't be so adamant about it if I didn't see over 95% of Mistweavers healing like that, and outright refusing to believe me that Fistweaving maximizes their healing potential. :P

 

To be a teacher, you have to give a good foundation, not give a foundation that is cracked and won't stand. :3

[Krazyito 521]

I understand that, but fistweaving is sometimes complicated for the people who have healed for a long time on other toons. Or the opposite where a DPS will only fistweave, which is also wrong.

 

The way the guide goes about what you can do with your damaging spells and how they all work together, but ultimately its up to the players to go read guides made by other fans (such as this one you have) to get a deeper understanding of how the class should be played.

 

Most people only Mistweave because they don't care to "optimize" or thoroughly don't enjoy fistweaving at all.  I agree, there are some people that don't even know its an option, but that's the players fault for not reading guides in general.  Icy-Veins does in fact mention how the damaging abilities work with each other and how they heal.  The foundation is there, but as with most things in life, its up to the player to figure out what to do with it.  

 

I thoroughly appreciate this guide, but as i mentioned before in my opinion, Icy-Veins does a great job detailing what the class can do with its abilities and outright calling it wrong is an overstatement.

 

If you're upset with specific parts of the guide, you are always more than welcome to comment on the threads made for each specific guide and say what you think is wrong and both Admins look into it and consider it for changes.

 

I myself have recently asked Vlad if he will consider changing the High gear levels gemming to a more crit heavy approach. (Yet to get a response yet, but I'm sure I will).

 

If you still don't agree, lets start being more specific with what we are unhappy with in the main guide.  Maybe we can make some changes.

[Brewmonksta 157]

Hi Farore,

 

I like that you have taken some time into providing some information on how some of the more advanced spell mechanics interact while fistweaving. I do however have to disagree with some of your information.

 

 

(a) – Mana Tea

The Glyph of Mana Tea doesn't seem like it does much at first glance, but if you look at the rotations I showed you earlier in this post, do you see how active you are? There is almost no downtime for a Mistweaver Monk, so keeping the pace of combat flowing is essential to your healing! The glyph for Mana Tea causes it to be instant, and to consume 2 stacks, but gives it a short cool-down. This ability effectively replaces Spirit for us, and is very important to use! Making it instant will maintain both your damage and your healing with no more cost than a GCD.

 

The CD makes mana tea easily cappable and therefore will be a loss of mana available and therefore an overall healing loss. The glyph gives 2 stacks for 1 gcd. unglyphed u can drink at 2 stacks per second with no cd...

 

Fistweaving definitely has a time and place. But there are also times when it has no time or place and the fistweaving just wont cut the mustard.

 

 

Do not gem for Spirit, but do not reforge it away

 

not gemming is good advice, not sure about the latter.

 

 

A good Mistweaver Monk will top both DPS and HPS charts, rather than be a middle-grade healer with no damage.

 

Very gross generalisation and highly situational. I myself can top meters by purely mistweaving or out dps the tanks fistweaving. but topping heals and dps is not going to happen wihout some kind of cheese mechanic(jinrok,horridon) or a raid make up that supports it greatly.

 

Im also a little worried about your "AOE rotation" for a short period yes alot of healing but to sustain this with a glyph of mana tea sound very impractical seeing as you would more than likely have RJW talent as to allo mana tea drinking while RJW is active.

 

Are you assuming all of this information with no LMG?

 

Whilst there is some great info here i think people should read with caution and test out their healing/dps requirements as needed on a fight by fight basis.

 

 

 

Most people will tell you that Mistweaving revolves around Soothing Mist and Enveloping Mists

 

Not sure on your sources but enveloping mist is/has only really ever been a tool to dump chi. Most people know that ReM and Uplift is where its at.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Brewmonksta

[Farore 0]

Without the glyph, you lose auto-attacks, and you can't move while drinking. That's a big dent in your damage output, which lowers your healing that much more. I know you cap out with Mana Tea when you have the glyph, but that's fine, really. I never drop below 80-90% mana unless I'm spamming heals left and right (I do use Soothing Mist for emergencies), but other than that, I maintain mana fairly well. I use Mana Tea nearly on CD, but I never run out of it, or mana.

 

As for Fistweaving having its place, I do agree, to an extent. Fistweaving is how the class is made to heal, Soothing Mist is your backup heal, for when you can't get in for a melee attack, or when you need a quick burst of healing on a single person. Other than that, I never use Soothing Mist.

 

You don't believe me that a good Fistweaver can top both healing and DPS charts, with little effort? Last patch (ToT), I was hardly geared, 502, and I was always in the top 3 for DPS, and easily doubled or tripled the other healers' outputs. Best part of it all, was that I very rarely went below 80% mana. This applies to all fights, dungeons, scenarios, everything. You don't need the "cheese" mechanics, just gotta know what you're doing.

 

My AoE rotation is the rotation I use at its simplest form. I have Chi Torpedo, and I make heavy use of that during AoE pulls, and it does a lot, actually. I really just replace Jab with Spinning Crane Kick, only using SCK more than once if everything else is on CD. I find that I actually use much, much less mana during AoE pulls than I do on single-target pulls, somehow.

 

Well, forgive me for the err. I don't ever Mistweave, so I don't really know what abilities you use. I just know that I do easily three or four times the healing of those kinds of healers, and use less mana.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Farore

[Brewmonksta 157]

To me this sounds like you primarily do old content where yes against other undergeared players in an lfr or dungeon in ToT sure, top dps and heals. I topped heals in an LFR the other day as tank spec but that doesnt make me a healer.

 

Last patch (ToT)

 

 

This applies to all fights, dungeons, scenarios, everything.

The monk guides here try to focus on current raid content and progression.

 

 

I don't ever Mistweave

 

Fistweaving is how the class is made to heal

 

No. Mistweaving is the way you are meant to heal while fistweving when it is optimal.

 

I think i can safely say that a Mistweaver will always out heal a fistweaver without a mechanic to cheese.

 

What is your current raid progression if you dont mind me asking?

[Ceraius 34]

 

I think i can safely say that a Mistweaver will always out heal a fistweaver without a mechanic to cheese.

 

I do agree with this even though I only play MW as my alt, and highest difficulty he's seen is flex. But even there there's absolutely no way fistweaving would be sufficient unless the group greatly outgears or performs the fights extremely well. (We usually have alts and non raiding friends in these flexes, so that would not be the case)

 

I do like the calmness and non-hostility in the thread, and I hope my comment doesn't tip that balance. Heated debates are always fun when they manage to keep it from being offensive. :)

[Brewmonksta 157]

 

I do like the calmness and non-hostility in the thread

 

Likewise.

In the end we are all here to help each other. Abuse doesnt help anyone.

[Ceraius 34]

While on a theoretical basis I do disagree with Farore's creed on monk healing I'd like to see some logs and numbers on it on how it works out in practise. Fistweaving is by no means wrong, and while you can keep up decent flow of green numbers I too think there's a time and place for it.

 

 

[Ceraius 34]

Did I just kill a thread? :D

[Krazyito 521]

I've stated before that no one should ever "only mistweave" or "only fistweave".  They are both integral to the spec and should be used accordingly.

 

Fistweaving is there for you when there is low damage going out on the raid. You can keep up some of the raid while adding damage to the boss, but While doing so you need to keep up ReM so that you can easily switch back to mistweaving when you need to do it.   

 

I think a key concept people are missing with differing between mistweaving and fistweaving is that the chi you gain from fistweaving usually shouldn't be used on healing spell. (Thanks Muscle Memory)  So really, every time you Jab/SCK you should be consuming the procs for the damage output and mana.

 

When you switch to mistweaving it means you're primarily spamming Soothing Mists to gain chi for more uplifts. Thats it. The only reason you should be using Soothing mists that is not going into uplifts, is to get 3 chi start fistweaving with blackout kick openers.

 

Personally, I never use Enveloping Mists unless its an absolute emergency or I know a tank is about to take heavy damage.  If I want to dump chi, my go to spell is uplift.  It has more chance of healing people + keeping the raid topped off, and its easier to use than having to find a somewhat viable target for enveloping.

 

As for topping DPS/Healing, in reality you never will top because of fistweaving.  If you are, then the group is bad or needs to be better, or the fight is a gimmick. 

 

 

Edit: You also changed your intro paragraph stating that Eminence is 50% of your total healing When that is wrong as well.  ReM/Uplift/(maybe SCK) will make up about 50% of your Total healing.  Eminence will not even come close to that unless you are ONLY FISTWEAVING. Which, as i have said, is wrong.

 

Fistweaving IS a supplement to soothing mists when there is low damage output for spot healing and soothing mists is only a filler for more uplifts.

[Krazyito 521]

I also want to post logs of a very competent mistweaver I know of who does a LOT of theory crafting on mistweavers and has posted in his blog how to maximize mistweaver DPS.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yuudg60k393lrkau/details/4/?s=979&e=1496

 

 

Reglitch is a mistweaver monk.  He did 150k DPS on 25H Fallen protectors.

 

Obviously he did not top the meters in DPS.  Lets look at HPS.

 

Hmm... doesn't look like he topped there either.  But obviously, he was mainly focusing on fistweaving and damage since his output was so high

 

Lets look at his healing spells

 

I looked through a couple logs to see where he had high eminence healing, which was this fight.  Looks like eminence only did about 23% total.  Even while fistweaving full time.  

 

The point is, unless you're fistweaving for the entirety of a fight, Eminence should not be your top healing spell.  Reglitch wouldn't have even come close to the other healers in HPS if he didn't use uplift or his T30 talent. 

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that even though you're right in saying fistweaving is an important part of a mistweavers spell usage, its not the only part and it needs to be balanced.

[Krazyito 521]

Your stat weights for fistweaving are also wrong.  Haste (to high breakpoints) is better than crit in most fistweaving situations (i.e. cleave)

[Tarazet 144]

Mistweaver is one of the most versatile healers in the game, perhaps only matched by Discipline Priests. And just as with a good Disc, never will they commit fully to one method of healing for all situations. If you want to just go through the same rotation for the entire fight, but still provide some useful raid healing, play a Shadow Priest, Elemental Shaman, Balance Druid. You'll still contribute positively to the raid's survival but will potentially do much higher damage.

 

Purely fistweaving isn't optimal for raid healing, nor is purely mistweaving 100% of the time.

 

Fistweaving is very, very strong in these situations:

 

1) Light smart raid healing when there is low damage

2) Heavy raid damage when the raid is stacked and/or many targets can be hit by SCK

3) Occasions where the target takes increased damage, which benefits Eminence

 

However, mistweaving is essential in several other situations:

 

1) Heavy single-target (tank or otherwise) damage

2) Heavy raid damage in a situation with only one hostile target

3) Heavy raid damage in any situation where the raid is spread out (here, mistweaving is incredibly strong)

4) Any time that you would waste Muscle Memory procs due to having to use Uplift instead of BoK/TP

[Farore 0]

Well, I don't know how to make you believe me. I just got my new Monk to 90 (I rerolled from Alliance), and she's about 487 - I'm already pulling 2nd or 3rd while healing LFR (40-50k) against much more geared people - 500+, and though I'm not top DPS, I'm always in the top 10.

 

I say crit over haste because I gem for as much Intellect as I can, so I have very hard hits, and when I crit all the time, my 400k Blackout Kicks are 200k healing (with statue), or 100k on their own. That's a pretty big heal to be going out every few seconds, if you ask me! I just got out of a LFR (wing 1), and I was second in healing, with ~50k HPS, first had 80k (super-geared), third had ~35k (more gear than me). I didn't have the foresight to take a screenshot of my Recount, but my Eminence was ~28%, statue was ~30%, and Chi Torpedo was ~25%. ReM was ~15%. (I use ReM nearly on CD, don't mistake what I said in my post for totally ignoring ReM)

 

I know it's hard to break away from the style of healing that has been in WoW for eight years before MoP, but I'm telling you, Monks are not casters. I had about 20 Soothing Mist ticks, and no Uplift ticks. 90% of my healing was from Eminence (mine and statue), Chi Torpedo, and ReM.

 

Maybe one of you guys who are so vehemently opposed will just have to do a raid with me, and watch what I do, and see how well it works. Then maybe you'll believe me! I'm just trying to help other Monks utilize their class to its fullest potential. People don't trust Mistweavers very much.

 

----

 

Responding to the post right above me, I don't think so!

 

Fistweaving:

 

-Good for keeping the whole raid near 60-80%, not generally for topping people off (you're only one healer). With Chi Torpedo, you have much more AoE healing.

 

-More mana efficient, and quicker healing output, as compared to HoT effects.

 

-Good for any situation, even for tank healing.

 

Mistweaving:

 

-Backup / emergency healing only, good for healing a single target to full HP.

 

-Costly and inefficient.

 

-Lack of AoE healing.

 

I just feel that Fistweaving is the way to heal as a Monk, and Mistweaving is your backup / emergency heal when all else fails. I lead the healing all through ToT, and once I get myself geared up, I'm sure I'll be leading healing in SoO - just give it time. :)

Edited October 31, 2013 by Farore

[Krazyito 521]

You really can't come with LFR stories because everyone in LFR is notoriously bad..  I would gladly come and do LFR with you though, though I would have MUCH more gear than you so we're just going to have to compare percentages.  Though, LFR is so dumb with the random damage that it really shouldn't be a good metric.  Add me on battle tag and make sure you put in the note who you are. krazyito#1696

 

A mistweaver doing tank healing with Eminence sounds much more viable in a 10 man situation then an 25 man, since there much less targets for it to potentially go to.

 

And I'm also telling you that doing PURE fistweaving for the entierty of the fight will not net you max healing output.  Fistweaving cannot keep up with Uplift spams when there is major raid damage going out.

[Brewmonksta 157]

 

I just got out of a LFR (wing 1)

 

I was second in healing, with ~50k HPS

 

Monks are not casters. I had about 20 Soothing Mist ticks, and no Uplift ticks

 

once I get myself geared up, I'm sure I'll be leading healing in SoO - just give it time

 

No, just no.

 

Like i said previously at low lvl content especially lfr you cannot compare this to high level monk healing.

 

Eminence is only your highest heal becuase you are doing no other healing...

 

50k hps is very very low and being top 10 dps in lfr means that u had a group with 10 people not afk.

 

I managed 100k hps on my tank the other day in an lfr, this does not make me a healer even though i topped the heals for the fight.

 

 

I lead the healing all through ToT

 

Lfr perhaps. Do you have an armory link or logs that we can view?

 

 

Maybe one of you guys who are so vehemently opposed

 

You should replace this sentence with "all healer monks everywhere"

 

Without repeating too much post after post, sorry but you are wrong.

 

Based off a few low lvl LFR is no way to base your class or healing.

 

Whilst i dont hit world firsts i do raid heroic content while it is current and can tell you 100% that you have it wrong. What works at low gear levels is not necesarily optimal at higher levels. Please take some time to view the icy veins guides and forum discussions to prepare yourself for current content or you will be in for a rude shock.

[Krazyito 521]

Hell, fistweaving technically should be much worse at lower gear levels.

[kika 1]

Hi farore, as lots of people kindly said before, you are not entirely correct (But not that off either). You should check reglitch's forum (http://bestmonk.eu) specially the mistweaver DPs guide and 2.0 . He does a lot of testing and has lots of logs for you to squeeze your monk to the max potential.

I agree with pretty much everything brewmonksta a krazyito said (listen to them, they know a LOT about monks)

Just take a look at reglitch forum, he has very interesting posts.

[Farore 0]

50k HPS is a lot, for someone in 487 gear. :) I'm not some fully-geared person walking around with 50k HPS. I was pulling over 80-90k with 502 gear, so just imagine what I'll do with current stuff. :P

 

Now, you a couple of you guys are becoming a bit mean with your remarks, so I'm not going to argue anymore. I found a way of healing as a Monk that works for me, and far out-performs your method of healing, at least for myself. This is a game, remember that! If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right. If I can pull twice or even thrice the healing of any other healer in my group with my own method of healing that people call "bad", well, oh well. I enjoy it, and I make it work. :)

 

Just reinforced some of those thoughts I have about people being sheep. :P Did you even try anything I talked about before you bashed it in the face, or did you just bash it because other people did too? I can't help but wonder.

[Brewmonksta 157]

 

Did you even try anything I talked about before you bashed it in the face

Yes. The entire MW community has been healing with monks since they were invented. Theory crafting, analysing logs, simcrafting etc.

 

 

and far out-performs your method of healing

I apologise if im coming across as mean but unfortunately you are just plain wrong.

 

You will not ever out heal a mistweaver monk by purely fistweaving. (cheese mechanics aside. Jinrok,horridon,garalon etc)

 

 

If I can pull twice or even thrice the healing of any other healer in my group with my own method of healing that people call "bad", well, oh well. I enjoy it, and I make it work.

If you are going to primarily play in LFR and 5man content then you can do whatever floats your boat at the time. I often tank 5 mans as a healer because simply i just can.

If however you want to prepare for current raid content and playing your class to its full potential then im afraid you are misinformed.

 

At the expense of sounding mean i find your signature a little ironic....

 

"To help others meet success is to see success for yourself." - The Healer's Credo

 

You are currently arguing with heroic raiding monks and telling us we are wrong without experiencing the content yourself first.

In my opinion and in the context of an "advanced healing guide" LFR is not success Heroic raiding is.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Brewmonksta

[Ceraius 34]

If I can pull twice or even thrice the healing of any other healer in my group with my own method of healing that people call "bad", well, oh well. I enjoy it, and I make it work.

 

This depends highly on who you're paired with for the healing.

[Krazyito 521]

We are probably sounding mean because you are adamant about something we know is wrong when many people in the community have said and theory crafted how you should play. If only fist weaving is how you perform optimally then fine, but IMHO it's not how the class needs to be played.

Again, as the risk of sounding mean, you want to critique the guide on IV about how it's wrong, and yet you are saying we are mean for telling you what is wrong. You can't give critique with out being able to take some as well, especially when you try to write your own guide. On top of that you say that people only mistweaving is wrong while I'm telling you that only fistweaving is wrong as well.

I have stated multiple times as across multiple threads to play this class optimally you need to learn when both styles are more optimal in what situation.

For over half of a fight you should be fistweaving. Because the majority of fights include long down times with bursts of damage. It's during those bursts when you need to heal and not do damage.

And, I'm pretty confident in saying this: a pure mistweaver of equal skill and gear will out heal a pure fistweaver.

The fistweaver will do more damage, which is HUGE for a progression raid. But healing is your job. Not damage.

As for tank healing with fistweaving I can totally agree to that in a 10 man situation with adds to Cleave. You can single handedly heal a tank effectively because most of the smart heals will go to him. But in a 25 man, you can't talk heal like that nor should you.

Lastly ad it has been mentioned, LFR is not a good metric. But I will run it with you and I will adhere to your style and my own (we will do the same boss as well) to see the differences.

[Tarazet 144]

In addition to what else has been said, you could have an ilvl under 500 but an upgraded 536 staff which will heavily favor fistweaving. We haven't even seen your armory. As far as LFR goes, I was sometimes healing for 30-40k in MSV LFR with an ilvl of less than 460 and a green staff (relying on the item level of my tank pieces to qualify for the raid). That was 100% mistweaving - blanketing the raid with ReM on cooldown, Expel Harm and Chi Wave on cooldown, casting Soothing Mist and spending chi on Uplift. Bog standard MW stuff. If you know the fights and know your class you can perform well with any healer class with terrible gear. In a real 10-man raid, however, not having gear becomes incredibly obvious and the low throughput will cause you to be a hamper on the raid.

 

There's also the issue of weapon type. My Mistweaver currently is wearing a one-hander. MW gets a passive that buffs auto-attack damage with a one-hand weapon, but it doesn't apply to special attacks based on weapon damage like Jab, Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick. So even when fistweaving might be the right thing to do, my weapon puts fistweaving at a heavy disadvantage. You need a nice big staff to make fistweaving an equally good option.