Situations where Demo is viable

[Ebola 0]

Hi guys.

 

 

This is my first character on WoW and I have a few questions about demonology. Reading recent threads on this forum and others, I know it doesn't do so hot in top tier raids and such activities, but how is it for LFR difficulty? Also, how good would it be for exploring Timeless Isle and running old content for xmog sets?

 

I'm okay with destro and terrible with afflic, but I find demo a much more rewarding play experience. I apologize if this topic has been run into the ground already, 5.4 has really left me in a rut and I'm just looking for answers. :(

 

 

Also...

 

Hi! I'm Ebola and I study biology (and play mmos in my free time ;) )

[Ilion 8]

For LFR anything is cool, you can be top1 dps in LFR just by having a brain.

[PhilColins 9]

Demo works well in SoO in almost every situation. Some just play the other specs because they are generally "easier" to play while achieving very similar results to demo. This being said, demo is a very rewarding spec to play, especially if you use your brain 50% of the time in LFR.

As for running old content, I prefer destro with Voidwalker because he lives better than the Felguard/Wrathguard that demo provides. Because Soul Leech is almost always on him and he has a nice shield or himself. Also, the burst Destro gives makes it so you can sweep old content fairly quickly without thinking much where demo relies too much on CD's to do quick damage.

Timeless isle is very easy to maneuver around and mess things up as Destro with the Voidwalker as your pet. Definitely a bigger fan of destro than demo for the island.

To be honest, you'd only have to wait like 15 seconds for the double stack of HoG for bursting things down if you rolled Demo.

TL;DR

I'm a fan of destro over demo most of the time. Unless I'm in the mood to challenge myself.

[Nyanchan 2]

Demo works well in SoO in almost every situation. Some just play the other specs because they are generally "easier" to play while achieving very similar results to demo. This being said, demo is a very rewarding spec to play, especially if you use your brain 50% of the time in LFR.

As for running old content, I prefer destro with Voidwalker because he lives better than the Felguard/Wrathguard that demo provides. Because Soul Leech is almost always on him and he has a nice shield or himself. Also, the burst Destro gives makes it so you can sweep old content fairly quickly without thinking much where demo relies too much on CD's to do quick damage.

Timeless isle is very easy to maneuver around and mess things up as Destro with the Voidwalker as your pet. Definitely a bigger fan of destro than demo for the island.

To be honest, you'd only have to wait like 15 seconds for the double stack of HoG for bursting things down if you rolled Demo.

TL;DR

I'm a fan of destro over demo most of the time. Unless I'm in the mood to challenge myself.

 

No, demo can ONLY stand out in 1-2 heroic SOO fights, (Thok and MAYBE paragons), other than this either affli or destro will be much better.

[Omaric 246]

There's a difference between viable and standing out Nyan. Demo is viable throughout SoO.

I would probably wouldn't rock it out on Spoils though.

[Uzern 1]

I like to use it everywhere except Imm, Spoils and Norushen. 

 

One current goal is to see how massive an imp army I can recuit prior to Malkorok. 
 

Had about 20 imps by my side last week.

[JvChequer 43]

Demo it's in a pretty bad situation right now.

[Zagam 1,982]

I like to use it everywhere except Imm, Spoils and Norushen. 

 

One current goal is to see how massive an imp army I can recuit prior to Malkorok. 

 

Had about 20 imps by my side last week.

Enjoy this while it lasts.  I know too many heroic guilds who used UVLS and Demonology Warlocks to cheese this fight on Heroic.  I refuse to employ such garbage tactics and shake my head at anyone who abuses this 'method.'  Those target dummies should and will be removed soon.

 

Demo it's in a pretty bad situation right now.

No it's not.  It's just under represented on the overall raiding data because most of the upper tier Warlocks progressing on Heroics are going with the highest potential with the lowest RNG and using the best spec that suits to certain mechanics while progressing.  That just happens to be Destruction.  Almost every Warlock I talk to is going back Demonology once content is on farm because it's more enjoyable and still VERY potent.  It just has a clunky opening which dissuades people from playing it.  Demonology is perfectly fine where it's at, and that will be reflected when a majority of the impressive Warlocks make the switch back to the spec.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I think one of the main issues with people staying away from demo is that it can be a bit harder to 'pad' the meters and look good.

 

Take Malkorok, you get an extra add (or 3) which you can swap dots to and drain soul for shards or havoc chaos bolt and shadowburn for more embers.

 

As demo you can maybe get a few ticks of shadowflame up but it's harder to line up and does less damage, and you won't get a killing blow off for the fury return.

 

Boss damage may similar across specs, but yeah, the other specs have advantages which makes them look better.

[JvChequer 43]

No it's not.  It's just under represented on the overall raiding data because most of the upper tier Warlocks progressing on Heroics are going with the highest potential with the lowest RNG and using the best spec that suits to certain mechanics while progressing.  That just happens to be Destruction.  Almost every Warlock I talk to is going back Demonology once content is on farm because it's more enjoyable and still VERY potent.  It just has a clunky opening which dissuades people from playing it.  Demonology is perfectly fine where it's at, and that will be reflected when a majority of the impressive Warlocks make the switch back to the spec.

Right, Demonoly it's a "For fun" Spec where it's viable for farming fights where u don't want to do the most dps possible.

IT's just like Hunters playing MM because they like, the spec it's horrible for progression, but "for the lulz" it's ok.

U can play naked if u want to.

Edited October 30, 2013 by JvChequer

[Zagam 1,982]

Demonology is actually viable.  There lies the difference.  Most people assume it's garbage because the elite players aren't playing it.  I'm not elite but pushed 377k on Thok as Demonology with a 571 item level.  I'll post my Flex logs this week when I do every fight as Demonology just because.  MM is also a very solid spec for Hunters when they get a Heroic SoO weapon and their 4pc. 

[JvChequer 43]

What I can't understand Zagam Bro. it's why ppl say it's a Good spec but they don't play with it in progression.

I don't know, maybe I'm too much "Sink or swim".

Maybe I just need to play more naked.

Edited October 30, 2013 by JvChequer

[Omaric 246]

What I can't understand Zagam Bro. it's why ppl say it's a Good spec but they don't play with it in progression.

I don't know, maybe I'm too much "Sink or swim".

Maybe I just need to play more naked.

 

Because it's more complicated to play.  Many people prefer a spec that is easier to manipulate during raids, like Destruction, because it allows you to focus more on the fight and your surroundings.

[Zagam 1,982]

All three specs are close, viable, and perfectly fine in SoO.  As Omaric leads to, my justification in playing Destruction is it's just easier.  It's the same DPS for much less effort.  There is literally NO complexity to Destruction.  The decision tree is this:

 

Grimoire of Sacrifice?  Check.

Trinket proc? - Use Chaos Bolt or Shadowburn

Trinket proc? - refresh Immolate

Conflagrate charge? - use Conflagrate

Immolate off? - apply Immolate

Incinerate

Wanna AoE?  Flip one button, assume normal rotation.

 

Only middle step is using Chaos Bolt if you have more than 3.5 Embers.  Toss in Havoc and Rain of Fire for multi-target and you're done.  There is NO complexity to it at all leaving you to care about everything else in the fight. 

 

Compare Destruction to Demonology.  You have two DoTs to maintain, one that MUST be maintained at its maximum power and another that needs to be maintained via Touch of Chaos just because reapplying it for damage is silly.  You have a resource bar that must be generated and depleted with maximum efficiency.  You have a pet to control.  You have to Life Tap.  You have to stance dance with trinket procs.  AoE requires proximity.  Wild Imps are RNG based on Crit% on Doom.  The 2pc and 4pc are both RNG.  Main nuke (Soul Fire) can't be cast while moving with KJC. 

 

Affliction has three separate DoTs that have to be maintained, a secondary resource with Soul Shards that have to be manipulated in order to maximize use, still have to Life Tap to maintain mana, and you have to worry about channel clipping Malefic Grasp and Drain Soul.  You have to make decisions on whether Soulburn Soul Swap is better or individually applying DoTs.  AoE is a disaster to maintain.

 

Want to know why people will go back Demo and Affliction when content is on farm?  Because it's more fun than spamming a simple, boring rotation when the fights become simple and boring because of repetition and a lack of complexity.  Heroics are usually difficult and require min/maxing both DPS and raid awareness.  Why would anyone NOT play Destruction as good as it is with as simple as it is to play?

[Omaric 246]

I would argue that the 2 and 4pc working in tandem add a bit of complexity to the Destruction play style, if you *really* want to push the ceiling.

 

And coming from doing H Protectors last night, I definitely wasn't bored.  Keeping Immolate up on 3+ targets, ensuring RoF is constantly down on 2 targets when possible, making the most out of Havoc.  It can get pretty crazy.

[Zagam 1,982]

Sure, that instance can get crazy, but always compare it to Demo or Affliction.

 

Demo would involve keeping Doom AND Corruption (2 DoTs) on three targets, tracking your damn Wrath/Felguard making sure he's on the right target or somewhere he can cleave.  Now you have to worry about timing Meta to push parts of the phase faster.  Should you pop into Meta for Calamity?  Do you delay Hand of Gul'dan at the end of a phase so that you can maximize the charges when the boss reappears and is able to be cleaved?  What about all those Soul Fire charges?  Now you can't move, or you may have to interrupt a cast to move from poison on the ground or the Corrupted Brew. 

 

Affliction has THREE DoTs to maintain, Haunt decisions to be made, a pet to worry about moving around, and limited movement with Drain Soul.  You tend to spend a majority of a fight like this cycling through Soul Swaps. 

 

You listed the only things Destruction has to worry about.  Havoc, RoF, and Immolate up.  2pc Destro is more for AoE than single target.  It doesn't change your playstyle.  If it happens, you won't prioritize Incinerate over Chaos Bolt.  4pc is the same...it's just a flat bonus to the crit percentage of all your spells.  The rest is smooth sailing.  They even removed the need to Life Tap as Destruction.  YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR MANA! 

[Rakupenda 15]

I would argue that the 2 and 4pc working in tandem add a bit of complexity to the Destruction play style, if you *really* want to push the ceiling.

 

And coming from doing H Protectors last night, I definitely wasn't bored.  Keeping Immolate up on 3+ targets, ensuring RoF is constantly down on 2 targets when possible, making the most out of Havoc.  It can get pretty crazy.

99% of your potential output can be maintained using your normal rotation. No sense worrying over a "Should I cast Incinerate, reapply Immolate (even though it isn't in pandemic range and is already buffed with crit) or Conflagrate with that five second crit buff I just got?" No matter which of those you cast you have equal chance to generate an emberbit (crits for Conflagrate/Immolate, or an extra emberbit from an Incinerate crit that you would not have gotten without the buff).

 

Wait for Paragons, Omaric. You'll get used to it pretty quick in addition to avoiding mechanics, ;)

(Which reminds me...)

[Rakupenda 15]

YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR MANA! 

I often have to tell myself that when re-glyphing. I think "Hm...should I take Life Tap glyph for this fight (Malkorok)? Wait...you don't life tap, durrr."

[Omaric 246]

Pfft, Affliction is waaaaaaaay easier than Destruction.  You say 3 dots, but it's really just 1 set of a DoT's that you swap around and fill with either Haunt or MG.  If I were Affliction on this, I'd probably be rolling with a Fel Imp to help supply raid dispels, so no need to worry about pet maintenance.

 

And let's be honest about Doom, it's fire and forget.  You don't really have to worry about it.  Oh, there's 10 seconds left on all my Dooms, guess I better get ready to refresh.  That said, yes Demo is a pain in the ass on this fight, lol.

[JvChequer 43]

Demonology it's not hard at all.

Every caster spec right now it's pretty average in difficulty level when you remember how Demo are at 4.3

Edited October 30, 2013 by JvChequer

[Omaric 246]

Demonology it's not hard at all.

Every caster spec right now it's pretty average in difficulty level when you remember how Demo are at 4.3

 

You must be a Demonology savant then.  I'd be interested to see some logs.  :P

[JvChequer 43]

You must be a Demonology savant then.  I'd be interested to see some logs. 

 

I'm not seeing you in top10 of destro's and affli's 25Heroic Logs and you claim they are easy specs, why I cannot do the same? :P

[Rakupenda 15]

I'm not seeing you in top10 of destro's and affli's 25Heroic Logs and you claim they are easy specs, why I cannot do the same?

Private logs until we kill Garrosh :(

[Omaric 246]

I'm not seeing you in top10 of destro's and affli's 25Heroic Logs and you claim they are easy specs, why I cannot do the same?

 

I've linked my logs numerous times.  I didn't say I expect you to be the top performer, I just wanted to see how well you do.  I'm not disillusioned to think that your numbers directly correlate to the caliber player you are.  Sometimes you have raid responsibilities that don't allow you to break top 10's.  I also don't have any cheese going on like tricks of the trade.  Our guild also has quite a few carries, so longer kills = less overall DPS.  Also I hate you. (In the most loving way possible)

[Uzern 1]

Enjoy this while it lasts.  I know too many heroic guilds who used UVLS and Demonology Warlocks to cheese this fight on Heroic.  I refuse to employ such garbage tactics and shake my head at anyone who abuses this 'method.'  Those target dummies should and will be removed soon.

 

 

Firstly, my post was essentially made in jest.  I find a 20 imp army to be quite amusing.

 

Secondly, this isn't a garbage tactic, and it most certainly isn't abuse.  It's a room nearly chock full of target dummies surrounded by trash mobs that immediately precedes a boss fight. 

 

The designers knew this would be happening when they put them there.  And even though it's possible to utilize these dummies for imps, Aff and Destro still post much higher numbers.