[Frost] Akraen's Comprehensive Guide to 5.4 Frost PvE (Advanced)

[Akraen 230]

Update: For more up to date info, please visit http://altered-time.com/forum/index.php - I will no longer be maintaining this thread. Send me a PM on Altered Time for any individual assistance.

 

Akraen's 5.4 Frost Guide - Advanced

 

Moderator note: If you would like to get combat log analysis or anything that is not strictly related to improving this guide, please start a new topic and post it there instead. - Oltier

 

Disclaimer: Much of this guide covers technique and highlights key playstyle differences to promote success in raid boss encounters. At some points there may be conflict with simcraft or the experience of others. Please be aware that 5.4 frost is complex with no clear answers only best practices. If you disagree with something in this guide please respectfully post a reply but do not attempt to argue A is better than B.

 

 

Conclusion

This more or less concludes my 5.4 Frost guide. It's a constant work in progress. So please do not hold it against me for any fuzzy wording or confusing gist. I've attempted to be very clear here with the goal being providing some data and interpretative analysis for mages who consider themselves a little more advanced. This guide will probably not help anyone who can't already maintain bomb uptimes, track their buffs, or those who don't understand that icicles shoot automatically.

 

For those looking to have a set way, one answer that is the best: sorry, not this patch! Do what you can, and always remember skill is more important than anything. Work on your UIs, timing, focus, and knowing the fights. That's where the real DPS comes from.

 

Please provide suggestions and more information in a "scientific" manner and I will gladly add more to this and make it an even better guide! Thanks for reading my insane thoughts

Edited May 30, 2014 by Akraen

[Storm 426]

Awesome guide Akraen! I'm definitely looking forward to raiding with you guys next week after I get back from Blizzcon. Maybe I can get some more of the Natural Order guys to come here and be active on the forums and theory craft with us. 

[Macca 0]

Absolutely amazing guide, i'm in awe.

[Akraen 230]

Thank you for the compliments :)

 

And yes, proud to have you in the guild now Storm. Bring back gifts from Blizzcon!

[Demyndra 6]

This is just remarkable work, truly.

 

My only thought/comment is that the dark blue font you used for some subtitles is REALLY hard to read.

[Akraen 230]

This is just remarkable work, truly.

 

My only thought/comment is that the dark blue font you used for some subtitles is REALLY hard to read.

Updated - MMO-C has a light backdrop so it stood out more there.

 

I am totally digging this forum engine. Most advanced I've ever seen.

[Oltier 471]

One thing that I would like to see added. In both haste and mastery style, you mentioned if the 4set bonus is a good thing.

But what about the mixture build? This has been a frequent question around the forum nowadays. :)

[Akraen 230]

One thing that I would like to see added. In both haste and mastery style, you mentioned if the 4set bonus is a good thing.

But what about the mixture build? This has been a frequent question around the forum nowadays.

No problem - I updated/clarified this in the guide.

 

Drop 4pc (heroic) only when all heroic warforged gear obtained, keep 2pc (ideally shoulders/gloves). 4pc is helped a bit by haste but still can't overcome the stats gained from heroic warforged gear. Can drop normal 4pc sooner with warforged, heroic, and heroic warforged mixes.

 

This is a realistic example of gear path:

-You start off with normal gloves, legs, chest, and shoulders

-You win a normal warforged chest from one of the first bosses

>>>Keep 4pc in haste/mixture, but drop it for mastery build

-You then win heroic gloves

-You win heroic warforged pants off Iron Juggernaut

>>>Drop 4pc in all builds, keep heroic gloves/shoulders, equip new pants, use that normal warforged chest now

*You now have an ideal config, just need to get better versions of the gear

 

Helm can be tier, of course, but remember how items are budgetted. Shoulders and gloves are the weakest itemized pieces, which means you lose less by them capping out at 574, instead of 580.

 

So you want Heroic WF'd Helm, Legs, Chest, and Tier Shoulders, Gloves

 

However, Shoulders come from Blackfuse, so it is an interim (and for many heroic guilds a final upgrade):

2nd best config: Heroic WF'd Legs, Chest, Shoulders; Heroic Tier Helm, Gloves

or

3rd best config: Heroic WF'd Helm, Legs, Shoulders; Heroic Tier Chest, Gloves

Edited November 6, 2013 by Akraen

[Akraen 230]

updated, little more visual now :)

[Tarazet 144]

I like the tribute to John F'ing Madden.

[Akraen 230]

This was my 5.1 Frost Mage Guide (it's outdated now but still funny):

 

[Veox 0]

Quick question what fights should I use LB, which fights do NT pull forward on? I'm bad at FFBing ( Not terrible, i just lose to many to make NT be worth more than LB on single target)

[Akraen 230]

Quick question what fights should I use LB, which fights do NT pull forward on? I'm bad at FFBing ( Not terrible, i just lose to many to make NT be worth more than LB on single target)

 

Hi since this is a frost playstyle question, not a gear question, I moved your post to this thread. Also it is pinned/stickied so others can see.

 

NT pulls forward based off the strategy you use on some fights. For example: On Protectors if your tank keeps Rook far away then Nether Tempest is ideal (it is all effective damage).

 

On Galakras, Nether Tempest can beat Frost Bomb if mobs aren't clustered together or if you need to also help on the tower grunts or the towers themselves.

 

You're good to use Living Bomb on every encounter in SoO without seeing a noticeable DPS loss. I recommend you start there, then try to use NT just on Protectors, Nazgrim, Siegecrafter, and Garrosh.

[Jatuu 1]

Hmm. So. At the moment, I have 54% haste and 51% mastery in raid. Our raid group has the haste, but not the mastery buff, and I primarily use LB. However, if I scale my haste back to 50% in raid and then stack mastery in place of haste, keeping crit, hit the same, simcraft has me at a DPS loss doing so. On average, it has me doing like about 7-10k less dps than simply staying as I am and changing nothing.

 

I am confused. I thought for the mixture build I was supposed to stop at 50%. So, if that's true, why do I sim lower than if I ignore the hatse breakpoint and keep going at 54% haste?

Edited December 10, 2013 by Jatuu

[Akraen 230]

Hmm. So. At the moment, I have 54% haste and 51% mastery in raid. Our raid group has the haste, but not the mastery buff, and I primarily use LB. However, if I scale my haste back to 50% in raid and then stack mastery in place of haste, keeping crit, hit the same, simcraft has me at a DPS loss doing so. On average, it has me doing like about 7-10k less dps than simply staying as I am and changing nothing.

 

I am confused. I thought for the mixture build I was supposed to stop at 50%. So, if that's true, why do I sim lower than if I ignore the hatse breakpoint and keep going at 54% haste?

Hi - Simcraft is wrong for frost mages. Like, way off. I know who develops it and he hasn't fixed a lot of errors since 5.4. The only way to "sim" now is to get damage breakdowns and activity breakdowns from your own logs, then use Lhivera's Theorycraft Lite to calculate damage totals.

 

You will see the best results if you go to 14242 haste and dump the rest into mastery.

[Akraen 230]

Putting this here, because it's very relevant to anyone who gets to around ilvl 578+

 

If you're below 578, don't look at this.

[emagunner 0]

Hi Akraen! My question is, do you adapt the bomb to the number of targets always? OR are there certain points where you prefer NT; or LB. (well in that chart frost bomb shows as the "potential" best bomb single target, and its definitely the best in 4+ targets).

 

Also, is there a big difference on single target between the haste build and the mix build? im kinda in the mixture now, but i only have flex gear and that stuff, considering making the full haste. 

[Akraen 230]

There's a range of -1.5% to +1% when you go from mastery to haste, depending on how well you snapshot. So basically no difference. Do what's comfortable.

 

Bombs... well, Living for single target, NT for add fights, FB for fun.

 

You can use any of the bombs on any of the fights. I really wouldn't worry about feeling like you're hurting your DPS. With a little luck and timing, NT can yield the most FFB procs. FB is nearly impossible to get right. LB is easiest and requires less reflexes.

 

You're just going to have to experiment on your own to see which theoretical potential you can reach.

[Omaric 246]

I'm not seeing much glyph explanation here.  What are thoughts on the Water Elemental glyph?

 

Let's say you're doing a single-target fight like IJ.  What would be your glyph choices?

[Oltier 471]

I'm not seeing much glyph explanation here.  What are thoughts on the Water Elemental glyph?

 

Let's say you're doing a single-target fight like IJ.  What would be your glyph choices?

on IJ, I'd run Icy Veins (as always), Rapid Displacement and Blink. The others don't really have too much use there. Maybe evocation on HC to help the healing on Siege phase. You won't DPS anyways. (except your elemental :P)

 

I'd advise Water elemental glyph on fights, where the boss itself will be moving and your elemental would always interrupt it's cast because it was out of range. The other scenario is, when you know there will be adds which you can use your water elemental's freeze spell and you want the elemental to always be in range of those adds (by moving near you). An example would be Dark Shamans for the green globules. You cannot guarantee that your elemental will be always in range of those without the glyph, but you can with the glyph.-->Free FoF charges.

[Omaric 246]

Interesting, thanks.

 

What other optional glyphs do you like to use?

[Oltier 471]

Icy Veins, Water Elemental, Splitting ice, Cone of cold, Rapid Displacement, these 5 are what I usually switch around.

 

+Glyph of momentum for minor glyph.

[Ceraius 34]

Question.

 

Would the mastery heavy gearing work as a go-to gearset for both frost and arcane? My mage will be smth around 5th alt, so gearing a total of 10 gearsets across my characters doesnt sound very appealing :D

[Akraen 230]

Absolutely. Arcane and frost can play very well together. High-haste arcane is a fun playstyle too.

 

However, I recommend hovering around 12684 haste if you wish to swap between the two specs frequently.

[Xkamor 0]

Hello, 

just a question about the coefficients you posted in the guide to use for the builds in AMR. You put crit at 1.0.

The standard pattern has 2 coeff for crit, below soft cap and over it (25%). Should i put 1 in both. I',ve seen that if i play a bit for example letting the old value for the soft crit cap or changing to 1 I end up with best in slot configuration to 24.9 or to 20.5 crit. Which is the best solution? I used the mixture coeff, and always get slightly over 50% haste and around 80% mastery