[Frost] Akraen's Comprehensive Guide to 5.4 Frost PvE (Advanced)

[Hazemat 0]

A question here also. After reading through, do you think as a lower ilvl mage right now (540) that I would benefit from a mastery build significantly more than from a haste build?

 

Also, is there any specific crit percentage I should be reaching? Or is it just a stat that just pales compared to the other two in importance that much?

[Oltier 471]

Hello, 

just a question about the coefficients you posted in the guide to use for the builds in AMR. You put crit at 1.0.

The standard pattern has 2 coeff for crit, below soft cap and over it (25%). Should i put 1 in both. I',ve seen that if i play a bit for example letting the old value for the soft crit cap or changing to 1 I end up with best in slot configuration to 24.9 or to 20.5 crit. Which is the best solution? I used the mixture coeff, and always get slightly over 50% haste and around 80% mastery 

As crit should be the least important secondary stat, crit under 25% and crit above 25% are mathematically equivalent. If you put the same number for both, it will be the same if you put a different numbers, as long as they are the lowest of all secondary stats.

 

The reason why we don't prefer crit nowadays, is Intellect trinket procs (or any other int gain) increases our crit chance and often, even if we reforge everything out of crit we will still reach the crit cap many times expecially with SoO gear.

[jeren 0]

i ve done quite a lot of tries on the dummy swaping the kardis totem with black blood trinket and black blood seems to be ahead every single try some with some difference other not so much...is there anything else about using the totem or could some1 help me understand how it gets to be better cauz i cant seem to work it right

[noso 1]

hello again, how are you doing today ? 

 

trying to optimize a bit my gear, i just checked askmrbot for the haste breakpoint, just to be sure... however the robot mentions haste breakpoint as 14384  (Meta + lust) or 14501 (only 1 +30% hast buff) for NT !

 

Are those break point correct such that  i should try to hit 14501 or is the guide correct when saying 14284 (which I don't find anywhere ^^)

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: hum... i found the 14283 break point with troll berserk.. anyway i should try 14501 then I guess (draenei inside)

Edited January 20, 2014 by noso

[Narsha 12]

A hastepoint that has worked great for many of us is 14424 haste which puts you at 50% haste raidbuffed, this puts your GCD to 1 sec and as Akraen says it in his guide "the point where instant casts stop scaling with haste". 

Since you are around there anyways you should at least try it out, I experienced fluid gameplay with still a decent amount of mastery.

[noso 1]

that was the point of my question... To know the exact value of the breakpoint :-)

For what I get from askmrrobot, the breakpoints in the 14.000 ish haste value are:

 

None without temporary buff (12684 on NT)

14501 with hero or meta

14384 with hero and meta

14283 with hero, meta and troll berskerk

 

I did not find a breakpoint at 14424, that's my point.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/haste/magefrost

 

Anyway, i'll try to get to 14.550ish haste for tonight raid, but if someone can assert the values of the breakpoint, would be appreciated

 

EDIT: btw, i'm not sure it's the right post to ask for that but, is it worth it, to reach the breakpoint of 14501, to gain + 2082 haste at the cost of -1540 int and -1533 mastery (gain also 800 crit and the process, but who cares ^^) My guess, the answer is no so I should wait for a bit more gear to reach that breakpoint 

Edited January 20, 2014 by noso

[Kver 65]

that was the point of my question... To know the exact value of the breakpoint :-)

For what I get from askmrrobot, the breakpoints in the 14.000 ish haste value are:

 

None without temporary buff (12684 on NT)

14501 with hero or meta

14384 with hero and meta

14283 with hero, meta and troll berskerk

 

I did not find a breakpoint at 14424, that's my point.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/haste/magefrost

 

Anyway, i'll try to get to 14.550ish haste for tonight raid, but if someone can assert the values of the breakpoint, would be appreciated

 

EDIT: btw, i'm not sure it's the right post to ask for that but, is it worth it, to reach the breakpoint of 14501, to gain + 2082 haste at the cost of -1540 int and -1533 mastery (gain also 800 crit and the process, but who cares ^^) My guess, the answer is no so I should wait for a bit more gear to reach that breakpoint 

Well you see, there is a bit of a misunderstanding on that part. It is not exactly a breakpoint. A breakpoint is a point at which a DoT gets an extra tick, such as 9522, 12684 etc. The 14242 soft cap is the point at which you reach 50% haste with frost armour and the spell haste buff, which is the GCD cap; the GCD does not get any lower past this point. As Akraen explained this is the point beyond which instant casts(Ice Lance, FFB) no longer benefit from haste directly.

 

The general advice for those trying to play the mixture build is to get to 14242 if possible and put the rest into mastery. I personally do not believe that sacrificing so much int and mastery for only 2.1k haste is worth it(Int is quite valuable!). 

 

Would you mind linking your armory so I can have a more in-depth look?

[noso 1]

Great reply, thanks ...

 

pretty stupid on my side to forget about gcd capping! much more clear now!

 

Here is my armory though, if you want to take a look, every comments are always welcome

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/character/illidan/Noso/simple

 

By the way, Akraen! I did not have the opportunity to thank you for the analysis spreadsheet. I'll try to increase even more my bomb uptime, 95 is def. not enough. And obviously, always throwing less 'eclair' to the boss and be able to eat them myself  (even if i'm not french but belgian, anyway).

So here it is, Thank you ;-)

 

Cheers

[Kver 65]

[...]

Ah yes, I see your issues now, you have a lot of hit/mastery gear and those 2 hit/crit rings are not really helping. I'm not sure how much of an effect it'll have on your DPS, but you could do something like this: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/26dc550a-94f8-47d3-83f2-d2becc64235a

 

It puts you on the 9522 breakpoint with Living Bomb and invests the rest into mastery. At 78% mastery you'll be doing really solid single target damage and strong 2 target cleave. That should be fine until you get more gear with haste. I would also advice getting a haste/mastery timeless isles 535 ring instead of that 522 hit/crit one. If you go for something high such as 14242 you'll simply end up breaking all your socket bonuses.

[noso 1]

Ah yes, I see your issues now, you have a lot of hit/mastery gear and those 2 hit/crit rings are not really helping. I'm not sure how much of an effect it'll have on your DPS, but you could do something like this: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/26dc550a-94f8-47d3-83f2-d2becc64235a

 

It puts you on the 9522 breakpoint with Living Bomb and invests the rest into mastery. At 78% mastery you'll be doing really solid single target damage and strong 2 target cleave. That should be fine until you get more gear with haste. I would also advice getting a haste/mastery timeless isles 535 ring instead of that 522 hit/crit one. If you go for something high such as 14242 you'll simply end up breaking all your socket bonuses.

 

Yep, that was my conclusion to reach the 14k breakpoint, loosing massive amount of intel with socket bonus.

 

I'm aiming for a mixture build, so, i'll try the 12k7 breakpoint first.

 

Thanks for the input for the ring, forgot I could switch for the timeless isle ring and got pretty bad luck on ring drops in raid :p

[dudface 0]

So, i'm a mage that recently decided to go frost, and i'm just wondering. I've been following your guides Akraen and they SEEM very good, yet this is the first time i try to get in depth in it all. so i have no idea what i am doing

But, currently, i'm 564, fully stacked haste as far as it goes, by clicking the optimise button on askmrrobot. which leaves me at 16,259 haste, with frost armor and no other buffs. What would be the optimal way of gearing, is it removing my haste so i reach 14.244 or whatever it is? All the discussion in both these threads and the MMO-C ones have left me with a headache, so i might as well ask.

//dud

 

Ps. armory link:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/Dudface/simple   Also, what bombs to use? what is your rule of thumb? Ds.

[Oltier 471]

The whole purpose of this thread is to show you that all three ways of gearing is optimal. You can follow whichever you want and do very good numbers in various situations (that are explained in this guide).

 

The answer regarding your bomb usage question is fully covered in the frost mage guide's talents and glyphs question.

 

https://www.icy-veins.com/frost-mage-wow-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents-glyphs

[dudface 0]

Right, but the thing that confuses me is, that one says only to use frost bomb where it can always hit 5+ targets, while akraen says its the best for solo targets

[Oltier 471]

Right, but the thing that confuses me is, that one says only to use frost bomb where it can always hit 5+ targets, while akraen says its the best for solo targets

Akraen has definitely never said that. Could you give a link to that post? <.<

[dudface 0]

err, its that one photo, but i guess i must have missinterpreted it:


http://i.imgur.com/drgIDSq.png

 

In the middle to the right: "DPS of bombs - Single target" with the frost bomb being the highest unless i'm reading it wrong

So lemme just ask, since i'm spamming haste like the craziest mage you can find, is it worth it to pass 50% haste? Because i use a lot of ice lances, being the majority of my damage source. I hit 55% haste, is the extra 5% wasted?

[Akraen 230]

No, haste is never wasted. I run with 24k haste :P

[dudface 0]

Ah, akraen, mind me asking, but while i have your attention: what bombs do you find the best on which boss? having issues deciding bosses like paragons or the protectors

[Kver 65]

Ah, akraen, mind me asking, but while i have your attention: what bombs do you find the best on which boss? having issues deciding bosses like paragons or the protectors

The general rule of thumb is that Living Bomb is the strongest single target bomb, and Nether Tempest is AoE or cleave. However keep in mind that many, many different analyses can and have been done. We have seen people use Nether Tempest on single target, Living Bomb on multi target, Living Bomb on cleave. There is even a theoretical(Albeit very, very theoretical) use for Frost Bomb on single target. 

 

I personally only use Nether Tempest for Spoils and The Fallen Protectors, though if you are ground group you might opt for Nether Tempest on Galakras as well. If your haste and item levels are really low, you might consider using Frost Bomb on Galakras and Spoils.

[Ghanjo 37]

Do you have any BiS lists for frost? Preferebly for the full haste build, since I currently have lots of mastery gear for my main arcane spec? I'm going to try getting gear for my frost offspec, and I haven't been able to find a BiS list anywhere. And when I put in your stat weights in AMR and looked at their suggested BiS, it recommended that I should get the crit-hit sword as my weapon, so I don't really trust the settings I seem to have there for offspec suggestions.

[Akraen 230]

Why yes I do!

 

Maximum Haste
Maximum Mastery
BiS @ 14242

My personal BiS list
What I'll likely end up with is here

[Spawner 0]

First of all Thank you for a great guide! It's been really helpful!

I have the ''Mixture build'' keeping haste close to 14242 (50%) raid-buffed and loving it! The problem is that i recently got the legendary meta gem.

 

Should i change my haste to around 48% (or less) or just stay at 50% ?

 

Edited February 5, 2014 by Spawner

[Oltier 471]

First of all Thank you for a great guide! It's been really helpful!

I have the ''Mixture build'' keeping haste close to 14242 (50%) raid-buffed and loving it! The problem is that i recently got the legendary meta gem.

 

Should i change my haste to around 48% (or less) or just stay at 50% ?

 

Stay on 14242. The guide assumes that you have the legendary.

[Veltrix 3]

Just wanted to say much thanks to this post!!! much apretiated... if you get a sec if you could take a look at my armory/askmrrobot page and tell me what you guys think! thanks!

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/illidan/v%C3%A9ltr%C3%ACx

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/V%C3%A9ltr%C3%ACx/advanced

 

any feed back would be muchly apretiated!!! just send me mail here or just a repli i spose haha

[Oltier 471]

Just wanted to say much thanks to this post!!! much apretiated... if you get a sec if you could take a look at my armory/askmrrobot page and tell me what you guys think! thanks!

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/illidan/v%C3%A9ltr%C3%ACx

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/V%C3%A9ltr%C3%ACx/advanced

 

any feed back would be muchly apretiated!!! just send me mail here or just a repli i spose haha

Ice Barrier: mehh.... Temporal Shield: yeeeyyy!

Other than that nothing bad.

[Whatwasthat 0]

Hey Ive a few  questions for ya.

 

Er do you know why Icyveins recommends 48% haste cap? This is what ive been going by which is 13485 points.

Also why not use the Arcweaver Spellsword and Ebon Ritual Hood vs the Immaculately Preserved Wand and Hood of Swirling Senses?(sry for some reason I cant link the items when I put the id from wowhead in by clicking the wowhead thing here).

 

Er mind telling me what u think of my toon its the best gear Ive been able to get as my server has really went down hill and so Im having trouble getting into a new raid group and not the cash to transfer http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/3b5cdbdc-9bb1-49cd-8b63-05d1 sry if link doesn't work had to type it out as the paste wouldn't work.

 

Also what is your suggestion for people like me that cant really multidot due to tab and click refusing to go to the next target, poor cp, and to many macros to make for each target in a raid?

 

Also do you ever have an issue like I do where even if my spells say 1.32sec to cast when you time them in soo they take the full 2 sec as if you have no haste? 

 

I think I have more ?s but atm cant remember them to get them all out sorry. Just thought of another ? and that is why does everybody think that the shammy trinket is so great?

 

Ive got it and it does only 2.5% - 3% of my damage most of the time and that's with it taking 300+ hits do it. Why not use the trinket off Garrosh and let that haste be reforged or regem your gear to where your getting a constant stat?

 

Like for a frost mage that's like me and loves mastery that's a lot less haste I have to try to get while giving more mastery which increases both the water elemental bolts dmg and the icicle dmg each hit not just a proct thing.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Oltier
Added some Enters to make it more readable.