heroes Heroes of the Storm Balance Update: May 9

[PrivateJoker 27]

1 hour ago, ShadowerDerek said:

RIP Tracer. You will not be missed.

That you think that nerf to Tracer is anywhere near enough to change her viability, is adorable. It will not effect her even a little bit.

[SleepySheepy 41]

2 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

...

Nerfing Malf and Stukov is definitely the right way. 

They are OP because their healing outputs are arguably one(s) of the best in the game, WHILE having access to very, VERY impactful CC and heroics. They just completely outshine every other support...

You missed the point. Let me ask you a question.
If they significantly buffed other Supports (healing or whatever), would you still think they are OP?
And if we are afraid of double Support comps, you can clearly see that Supports lack good waveclear, especially Malf and somewhat Stukov.
What we need is mroe supports who actually have decent healing AND good CC, so Stukov nerf missed the point. Hooray, Morales has grenade. What does it do good? Nothing. Hooray, we have Ana with Sleep Dart. 99% of the time it ends up being used to just get stack to finally get better range and 2 Heroes per dart. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by SleepySheepy
Shorter post

[PrivateJoker 27]

11 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

You missed the point. Let me ask you a question.
If they significantly buffed other Supports (healing or whatever), would you still think they are OP?
And if we are afraid of double Support comps, you can clearly see that Supports lack good waveclear, especially Malf and somewhat Stukov.
What we need is mroe supports who actually have decent healing AND good CC, so Stukov nerf missed the point. Hooray, Morales has grenade. What does it do good? Nothing. Hooray, we have Ana with Sleep Dart. 99% of the time it ends up being used to just get stack to finally get better range and 2 Heroes per dart. 

I mean, maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but aside from Rehgar, Stukov is like the best support at waveclearing in the game. Especially if you take lurking arm talents.

[ShadowerDerek 69]

51 minutes ago, PrivateJoker said:

That you think that nerf to Tracer is anywhere near enough to change her viability, is adorable. It will not effect her even a little bit.

Oh it definitely does.

Any players with decent awareness will throw their abilities into Tracer's Recall place if they know the place. Ever heard of portal control? It's a concept where you use CCs like Malf root or Stukov silence on the portal to discourage the enemy team from using it. The same thing can be done to Tracer's Recall now, and Tracer can't even do anything to it.

27 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

You missed the point. Let me ask you a question.
If they significantly buffed other Supports (healing or whatever), would you still think they are OP?
And if we are afraid of double Support comps, you can clearly see that Supports lack good waveclear, especially Malf and somewhat Stukov.
What we need is mroe supports who actually have decent healing AND good CC, so Stukov nerf missed the point. Hooray, Morales has grenade. What does it do good? Nothing. Hooray, we have Ana with Sleep Dart. 99% of the time it ends up being used to just get stack to finally get better range and 2 Heroes per dart. 

They are OP because they are, not because the other supports are weak. They're just too well-rounded to justify picking someone else over them in almost any situations. 

Let me ask you: Is Rehgar weak? Is Lucio weak? Is Alexstraza weak? Is Uther weak? No, right? They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But Malf and Stukov? They have so many strengths (great healing output, reliable hard CC, game-winning heroics, good self-protection, etc), but do they have weaknesses? Not really. 

[PrivateJoker 27]

35 minutes ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Oh it definitely does.

Any players with decent awareness will throw their abilities into Tracer's Recall place if they know the place. Ever heard of portal control? It's a concept where you use CCs like Malf root or Stukov silence on the portal to discourage the enemy team from using it. The same thing can be done to Tracer's Recall now, and Tracer can't even do anything to it.

That is not going to have nearly as large an impact as you're imagining. Countering that would require you to react to her recall, and also have the recall point be within range of your crowd control (the examples you give with malf and stukov are way, way too slow to react to a recall). She'll get caught slightly more often, sure, but I really think that's more of an edge case thing. She'll still be able to do everything she was able to do before, it's not gonna result in her being hard countered.

[Valhalen 1,484]

5 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Nerfing Malf and Stukov is definitely the right way. 

They are OP because their healing outputs are arguably one(s) of the best in the game, WHILE having access to very, VERY impactful CC and heroics. They just completely outshine every other support.

And I don't even think these nerfs are enough, especially for Stukov. They should outright remove either Growing Infestation or Virulent Reaction. Even a certain EU ~10k Master Alarak main agree with me. 

It's not that the other supports are weak (apart from those actually weak supports like Ana and Auriel): it's that Malf and Stukov are way too strong and well-rounded. 

I'd rather them buffing all the other Supports; we already got that 5% flat nerf in the past that destroyed the Double Support Meta. I know buffing the other Supports is harder than nerfing Stukov and Malfurion, but still.

[Aasgier 36]

1 hour ago, PrivateJoker said:

That is not going to have nearly as large an impact as you're imagining. Countering that would require you to react to her recall, and also have the recall point be within range of your crowd control (the examples you give with malf and stukov are way, way too slow to react to a recall). She'll get caught slightly more often, sure, but I really think that's more of an edge case thing. She'll still be able to do everything she was able to do before, it's not gonna result in her being hard countered.

It  isn't as much hard CC she needs to be worried about, it are Chromie or Jaina combos that have both the recall point and Tracer herself in range.

I don't play at high MMR though, so most Tracer users I encounter are pure garbage and I just laugh at them with Li Li or Johanna.

[ShadowerDerek 69]

Breaking news: Diablo is indeed getting a rework. There's a spotlight video on Hots offical Youtube channel.

[Valhalen 1,484]

22 hours ago, Aasgier said:

If that does not need a nerf (possibly paired with a full talent rework, considering how little deviation there is in his talent tree) I don't know anymore.

Looks like your wish was granted. I was skeptical that a rework could end up ruining him, but looks like it is not the case:

 

[Brauchief 6]

and you are CORRECT!

[Aasgier 36]

13 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Looks like your wish was granted. I was skeptical that a rework could end up ruining him, but looks like it is not the case:

 

It is Blizzard though. You never know for sure if their balance department is going to screw up :P

[ExorionAether 11]

23 hours ago, SleepySheepy said:

She should be something like get Energy whenever any Hero gets damaged (let's say about 20%) and she can get Energy with her actions. That way she can actually bring hope to dire situation, rather than let's crush our best, be crushed by our worst.

"Whenever any Hero get's damage" As in how the current design is or do you propose Auriel should get energy every time her Bestow target (and/or herself) get damaged? Because if that was your idea for a rework then I would strongly disagree with going that direction.

Sure, it would fit her theme with "Where's hope yada yada" but from a design perspective this would be a thing that no enemy on earth would like. Think about it: You, the enemy of Auriel, face off against her and the bestowed target. Now for every attack, skillshot etc. you land your enemy gets rewarded with a source for healing. Rewarding a player for doing worse than his opponent is not something that feels good (looking at you, rage mechanic from Smash 4). Sure, such things can be intended as a comeback mechanic for worse players but do you seriously wanna have Auriels main gimmick her being a plaster?

I think she needs a rework that reduces her energy being tied that hard to the performance of her bestowed target. Auriel should be rewarded with more energy for doing things good and bestowing someone should introduce an interesting back-n-forth mechanic that gives pros as well as risks (like, let energy be consumed for either healing or giving a bestowed target buffs for the duration, something like that).

But that's just how I think about Auriels design, so...

[Valhalen 1,484]

7 hours ago, Aasgier said:

It is Blizzard though. You never know for sure if their balance department is going to screw up :P

I'm severely worried about that too. Diablo is in a pretty good spot right now (although he is a mono-build Hero), but I like him that way.

[ArusVicious 156]

1 hour ago, Valhalen said:

I'm severely worried about that too. Diablo is in a pretty good spot right now (although he is a mono-build Hero), but I like him that way.

I second this. Blizzard can be quite unpredictable. However, I’m not against Diablo receiving nerfs, but only if they are decent sized and keep him extremely viable. He’s in a good spot indeed, albeit slightly too much.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Maxkitty

[ShadowerDerek 69]

Lunarahahahahaha is also getting a rework!!!!! 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Edited May 11, 2018 by ShadowerDerek

[SteveFrost 97]

On 9/5/2018 at 10:43 PM, Aasgier said:

Diablo has literally the least flexible talent tree in the game.

So, TLDR: Diablo is the strongest Warrior by far and has only one talent build. Needs rework.

"This is Jimmy! Also, his wife Sarah."

[Aasgier 36]

8 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

"This is Jimmy! Also, his wife Sarah."

1. Raynor has a more flexible talent tree than Diablo.

2. Diablo needing a rework does not mean that Raynor does not need a rework. They both do - for different reasons.

[SleepySheepy 41]

On 11/05/2018 at 10:02 AM, ExorionAether said:

"...
I think she needs a rework that reduces her energy being tied that hard to the performance of her bestowed target. Auriel should be rewarded with more energy for doing things good and bestowing someone should introduce an interesting back-n-forth mechanic that gives pros as well as risks (like, let energy be consumed for either healing or giving a bestowed target buffs for the duration, something like that).

But that's just how I think about Auriels design, so...

I meant something like her level 7 Empathy (20% of the damage taken). I know issues that Sonya has.
I think it would be balanced, burst can overflow your energy + you have 4s CD barrier.

Or rework could do something like Sonya's Q, for an example. Whenever you stun enemy with E, get 20% of max Energy.

PS: Or maybe even both!

Edited May 12, 2018 by SleepySheepy

[SteveFrost 97]

10 hours ago, Aasgier said:

1. Raynor has a more flexible talent tree than Diablo.

Not really, lol