Is my dps appropriate?

[Deafmetalman 0]

Hello everyone.

 

Long time reader here, first time poster. I come from a relatively dead server; where I raid in a 25-man raiding guild who are.... Let's say.... Average...

 

I currently have a 562 Ilevel and though my dps is good in comparison to my guildies, I feel like I should be doing more.

 

Oh, I'm a destro Lock :D... Mostly....

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Dath%27Remar/Deaflock/simple

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you want to look.....

 

I had a slightly lower Ilevel when I posted these results on world of logs.

 

A multi-target fight...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pihynr4alevj501p/sum/damageDone/?s=1827&e=2296

 

A single-target fight...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gx8f2fbhxwzdz9rv/sum/damageDone/?s=2676&e=3070

 

So, am I getting about as much as should be expected for my Ilevel? I really feel like there should be more... I realise it isn't low, of course. It just feels like I'm missing something....

[Kazistrasz 216]

Your average Chaos Bolt damage is really low. Make sure you're not wasting them outside of procs if you don't have to.

[Silverman 0]

I think you should drop RoF(IJ) and make better use of you CBs.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Silverman

[Drafty53 17]

I think your rotation looks pretty tight. As kazi said, your Chaos Bolt averages could be slightly higher. With your trinkets and gear I would recommend using the Grimoire of Sacrifice talent instead of the Supremacy talent. With the multistrike proc effect this usually will result in a dps gain. It will not give you A LOT more but your rotation and up time seem to be pretty solid so far and it should provide a dps gain.

[Strife 6]

Looking at my last Destro Iron Jug log where I was 560 ilvl really the only difference between our logs is my avg. C. Bolt is a little over a mil vs yours in the 875K range, and then my immo uptime was at 98.6%. That could just be procs and you needing to use more non-buffed C. Bolts to not cap embers, but that and a little bit more immo uptime are really the only things to watch out for.

 

For comparison my dps was 279K.

 

Obviously my play isn't perfect either and I could improve as well, but those were the two things I noticed. As other people mentioned, some of that is not using GrimSac as well which is better with KTT.

[Deafmetalman 0]

Thanks for the posts guys :D...

 

So, GoSac is better in all situations with a KTT? i was under the impression that Supremacy was better for single target fights, and Sacrifice was better for fights with cleave. Having KTT not proc from pet damage really changes it that much?

 

Also, on the Chaos bolts. I never throw any bolts without some sort of big proc, unless I'm about to cap burning embers of course. Perhaps it's my lack of crit? I was thinking about dumping a lot of my haste, my Incinerate often goes below 1 sec (To about 0.6 sec), so it's really just wasted.

[Brown 14]

Sup and Sac are pretty close regardless, Sac GoSac is better and you don't have to worry about pet dying. Somehow someone missed the proper coding on making pets survive on some fights so GoSac ends up being better instead of wasting time/resources on resummoning.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Sup and Sac aren't really that close together when you have KTT. KTT doesn't proc off of your pet, so taking GoSac becomes the clear winner. The only times to use something else are when you're playing another spec or a fight simply demands the utility of actually having the pet out.

[Zanzal 6]

.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Zanzal

[Deafmetalman 0]

Thanks for the posts, suggestions and the occasional comments everyone :D....

 

I'm changing a few things around at the moment, see if I can get those Chaos bolt damage up. I'm running 10k Haste at the moment, which lately I've felt is just wasted. Throwing about 4k of that back into crit, hopefully. The unforunate thing is... A lot of gear, especially the early stuff, has haste on it...

 

Hopefully I'll be able to improve :D.

[Zanzal 6]

.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Zanzal

[Kazistrasz 216]

Haste build and crit build both work. I like the crit build because it means never GCD capping with Incin on the pull as well as bigger Chaos Bolts. Nothing makes me as happy as seeing enormous numbers exploding on my screen (I had a lot of fun once I got my 4pc and weapon last night).

[Deafmetalman 0]

Unfortunately, with the gear I have, I could only get my haste down to 6679.... And my crit only up to 7552.. Though, I suppose it will be a good balance between the two. I'll have to track down some gear with a little less haste... The good news is, I was able to squeeze an extra 3% mastery out of my gear, with a few different gems and a little reforge magic.

 

Thanks again for all the comments guys .

Edited November 13, 2013 by Deafmetalman

[Deafmetalman 0]

Another problem i run into is the 200ms I have to play with being from oceanic... Which just makes the GCD cap that much worse..

[Silverman 0]

I for my part, like a hasteheavy destructionbuild. Espcecially after i got 4 pc and 2 SoO trinktets. The main reason is, that i have much more freedom in using the procs. While with a critheavy build i have to time f.e. the 4pc proc to fire 2 CBs, Its especially meh, if i have to move at the time.  While with more haste i can run out of the fire and fire 2 CBs or wait a little bit for my BBoY stacks to ramp up and then fire 2 CBs a.s.o.For a few encounter(for farmbosses, for hc-progressencounter i stay with haste) I swap my gear for more crit and less haste, but overall i like haste more, because there is more room for errors.

[zenfoldor 0]

Created an account just for this thread.

 

Last night I got KTT normal, before I had KTT flex, so my gear score last night was around 558.

 

Here are our logs for Iron J

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-txddv58pnd3ohjg5/sum/damageDone/?s=4689&e=4977

 

My armory:

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kelthuzad/Zenfoldor/advanced

 

Should get cloak this week or next.

 

My fallen protectors:

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-txddv58pnd3ohjg5/sum/damageDone/?s=1231&e=1535

 

What I'm seeing.

 

1. You blow me away on protectors. Just awesome. For having 200ms you are rocking the charts there friend. I need to learn 2 play apparently.

 

2. We basically tied in the a single target fight. This could be related to a number of issues, but it seems that with your higher gearscore, you ST could be improved. You may be wasting dps casting RoF with 200ms, there is a natural spacing that is added by the player for RoF since its reticle in nature and can't be cast during another cast. This is directly relational to your latency as well as your skillcap. Next time, I'd try to ensure optimization of CB and empower it more, and maybe drop RoF from the rotation and see if that helps.

 

As for your guildies, this is a common misconception I'm running into lately from game smarts. The perception is, because of world of logs, that Destro should be doing monumentally more dps, and is OP, and anyone who isn't blowing out 1million dps, isn't doing it right. Truth is, desto is an awesome and OP spec, but you have to look at that relatively. There's always that one guy with a warlock alt that says "he should be doing more than 350k single target at that gear level," who has know idea what he's talking about.

 

You can certainly improve, as can we all, but I suspect, that you're doing as well or better than most locks around that gear score already, even with an astounding 200ms latency, so frankly, imo, your guild is wrong. You're around where you're supposed to be pretty much.

[zenfoldor 0]

^^ I misread the OP

 

Looks like its yourself and not your guild criticizing you, haha. Sorry about that, I had it in my head your guild was complaining. No worries, carry on, you're doing good. Try Iron J without RoF and see if that changes anything.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Zen: you guys have essentially the same gear: same weapon, same trinkets, no 4pc, and only 4ilvls off. You are WELL within the range of RNG to affect everything.

 

Also, your multi-target: Immolate everything. Most of the time you have Immolate up on one target (if up at all -- there are several points where you let it fall off). 

 

The important part is we don't identify DPS issues by comparing to our DPS; we identify them by looking at the logs. Half of the warlocks here have better gear than me, because they're into heroics and my guild has stalled out. Yet, I can still identify their issues. Clearly I'm not comparing their logs to mine when I know I'll likely loose (I only just got a weapon and my 4pc Monday, after all). I'm looking at things like their CB usage in relation to procs, DoT uptimes, etc.

[zenfoldor 0]

Hmm, thank you Kaz, I'll take that advice and see how it affects my logs next week. My immolate uptime is pretty bad, when I first started playing a lock, it was abysmal. I totally see what you're saying and I appreciate you expressing that. I agree with you and will keep it in mind in my future postings.

 

I am not at all trying to be derogatory towards the OP, just saw that I was around his gear level and wanted to give some potentially helpful advice. The theme of my earlier post was simply, that if you're doing as well as he seems to be doing, there isn't a magical way to double dps. There is a preconception amongst the WoW community that Warlocks are vastly OP, and that probably does hold a good bit of truth, but making a jump and assuming that a warlock is "bad" if he isn't the top DPS in a raid, and not giving proper credit to great Warlocks who do pull astounding numbers, are two downsides to being conceptualized as OP.

 

Example, I was in an oQueue group the other day doing normal ToT for runestones(just need 2 or 3 more to get my cape). The guys in the group were poorly geared relatively and running ToT for actual gear. They began to note my dps(only the leader even knew how I was found, and what oQueue was) and began inspecting me and commenting in vent that I had "really good gear." We were on Drumu. A ST fight with a little cleave and of course. Be burned him down before we got out of his first maze and I believe I was at about 260k dps ST, at least double every other dps.

 

One of the members of that group who proclaimed a Warlock main, began to criticize saying that "You should be pulling WAY more DPS than that with your ilvl." I quietly finished the group and went about my business. The way he said it, made it seem like he thought I should be pulling 400k single target, and the 400k number was mentioned.

 

I believe its not as rare of a misconception as people would realize, that people believe EVERY warlock should be able to churn out godly numbers, not because they improve, are skilled, and examine their logs, ask for advice, and try to improve, but just because "their class is OP." I can't shine because any skill I do have is blamed on my class, and any lack of skill is blamed on me directly(which it should be but I should also get credit sometimes, no). I also felt like I had un-realistic expectations put on my in the Drumu group. That's really why I posted in this thread. The best warlocks in the world aren't all warlocks. When we do good, sometimes it seems like people think we should have done better, and when we do great, people think we've just gotten carried by our class, at least in my aforementioned experience.

 

Zen: you guys have essentially the same gear: same weapon, same trinkets, no 4pc, and only 4ilvls off. You are WELL within the range of RNG to affect everything.

 

Also, your multi-target: Immolate everything. Most of the time you have Immolate up on one target (if up at all -- there are several points where you let it fall off). 

 

The important part is we don't identify DPS issues by comparing to our DPS; we identify them by looking at the logs. Half of the warlocks here have better gear than me, because they're into heroics and my guild has stalled out. Yet, I can still identify their issues. Clearly I'm not comparing their logs to mine when I know I'll likely loose (I only just got a weapon and my 4pc Monday, after all). I'm looking at things like their CB usage in relation to procs, DoT uptimes, etc.

[Calol 5]

Zen you're doing fine man. You're generally just under me in dps and overall damage. You may even beat me once you get your cloak if I can't get my weapon to drop. I would have been there last night to compare numbers but I got pissed off and bailed after the guild pulled immers while I was rebooting.

[zenfoldor 0]

It happens Cal. I'm stoked about that cloak. I'm 95% sure somebody face-pulled(via a insta-cast) him, is why it went down like that. I appreciate the encouragement. Sorry if I've gotten off topic a bit, lol.

[Silverman 0]

Hmm, thank you Kaz, I'll take that advice and see how it affects my logs next week. My immolate uptime is pretty bad, when I first started playing a lock, it was abysmal. I totally see what you're saying and I appreciate you expressing that. I agree with you and will keep it in mind in my future postings.

 

I am not at all trying to be derogatory towards the OP, just saw that I was around his gear level and wanted to give some potentially helpful advice. The theme of my earlier post was simply, that if you're doing as well as he seems to be doing, there isn't a magical way to double dps. There is a preconception amongst the WoW community that Warlocks are vastly OP, and that probably does hold a good bit of truth, but making a jump and assuming that a warlock is "bad" if he isn't the top DPS in a raid, and not giving proper credit to great Warlocks who do pull astounding numbers, are two downsides to being conceptualized as OP.

 

Example, I was in an oQueue group the other day doing normal ToT for runestones(just need 2 or 3 more to get my cape). The guys in the group were poorly geared relatively and running ToT for actual gear. They began to note my dps(only the leader even knew how I was found, and what oQueue was) and began inspecting me and commenting in vent that I had "really good gear." We were on Drumu. A ST fight with a little cleave and of course. Be burned him down before we got out of his first maze and I believe I was at about 260k dps ST, at least double every other dps.

 

One of the members of that group who proclaimed a Warlock main, began to criticize saying that "You should be pulling WAY more DPS than that with your ilvl." I quietly finished the group and went about my business. The way he said it, made it seem like he thought I should be pulling 400k single target, and the 400k number was mentioned.

 

I believe its not as rare of a misconception as people would realize, that people believe EVERY warlock should be able to churn out godly numbers, not because they improve, are skilled, and examine their logs, ask for advice, and try to improve, but just because "their class is OP." I can't shine because any skill I do have is blamed on my class, and any lack of skill is blamed on me directly(which it should be but I should also get credit sometimes, no). I also felt like I had un-realistic expectations put on my in the Drumu group. That's really why I posted in this thread. The best warlocks in the world aren't all warlocks. When we do good, sometimes it seems like people think we should have done better, and when we do great, people think we've just gotten carried by our class, at least in my aforementioned experience.

This is one of the point i don't get. True warlocks are strong, but i for my part don't see the "OP"-Part. This is one thing i hear from my guild colleagues all the time, that warlocks are just op. I think, that warlocks are as strong as the most other classes. I asked them why they think that the Wls are OP and they said that warlocks dominate WoL-rankings  on every fight. So i looked into it and looked at the individual classrankings and rankings overall.  And i still don't see the OP-being of the Wls. Except for very few fights, the rankings are pretty well mixed. Also overall the dps of the most classes is VERY close by each other, within +2-3%. Which is a very very good balance in my books (if you consider the amount of different classes and specs its very impressive). 

...well who am i kidding, we are op and make so much damage...more than every other class in the game and that by a gazillion dps...well except for rogues...and warriors...and mages...and shamans...and monks..and palas...and druids...and dks...and hunter. 

[Deafmetalman 0]

Howdy everyone, this thread got more attention than I thought it would =/ lol... Anyway...

 

Unfortunately, we had super awful storms here in my part of Australia (It'll probably flood again soon, Blarg!). So I lagged throughout the first night and completely Dc'ed the second night raiding. Hopefully I'll be able to post some decent numbers in my 10 man this week, the lack of comparison is killing me -.-...

 

And on the whole 'You're Op Mr Warlock!'.... I don't think that's true either, certainly not single target fights. On fights with cleave, or heavy trash.............. Hellz yeah!......... Lol... Are warlocks to be frowned upon, snickered at and called 'op' behind out backs; just because blizzard threw in heaps of these sorts of fights into SoO?

[Deafmetalman 0]

And goodluck on your Cloak Zen :D. It'll be a mighty fine upgrade.

[YunSukKang 0]

This is one of the point i don't get. True warlocks are strong, but i for my part don't see the "OP"-Part. This is one thing i hear from my guild colleagues all the time, that warlocks are just op. I think, that warlocks are as strong as the most other classes. I asked them why they think that the Wls are OP and they said that warlocks dominate WoL-rankings  on every fight. So i looked into it and looked at the individual classrankings and rankings overall.  And i still don't see the OP-being of the Wls. Except for very few fights, the rankings are pretty well mixed. Also overall the dps of the most classes is VERY close by each other, within +2-3%. Which is a very very good balance in my books (if you consider the amount of different classes and specs its very impressive). 

...well who am i kidding, we are op and make so much damage...more than every other class in the game and that by a gazillion dps...well except for rogues...and warriors...and mages...and shamans...and monks..and palas...and druids...and dks...and hunter. 

 My opinion is more because of the general simplicity in playing a destro lock in particular. We get a lot of return for very little effort in comparison to some classes. Now WoW isn't a hard game by any stretch of the imagination but I do feel that Destro is one of the easier specs i've played in my time. Not BC Sac Destro easy but not by any means hard.