heroes Chromie Rework Discussion

[Stan 5,240]

Lead Hero Designer Matt Villers discussed Chromie in the latest round of blue posts dealing with Hero reworks.

The developers hinted at possible changes to Chromie in the latest Balance & Design AMA. They don't like her binary gameplay experience and are experimenting with making her Dragon's Breath [W] visible to enemies.

Blizzard (Source)

You can look forward to more Chromie changes in the future. I can't give a date, but we've started to experiment with various ideas, like pulling in her range further but reducing her cast time, and making her W visible to enemies. All of this is still early in development, but the idea is to make her feel more interactive with enemies, and not create such a binary experience for Chromie herself (if enemies reach her, she dies and can't do damage, otherwise she's untouched).

In the latest discussion on the official forums, Villers revealed that Chromie is well-balanced and decreasing her damage output would not be the right approach from a design standpoint. The biggest challenge for the devs when dealing with Chromie is not to change her so much that she loses her identity. What do you think defines Chromie? Is it her long range, burst damage, slow or something else? Are you a Chromie player or find her frustrating to play against? Let us know in the comments!

Blizzard (Source)

Chromie is a tricky one because there's no single element of her kit that pushes her over the line in terms of feeling frustrating to play against. She's also pretty balanced overall, so simply making her weaker isn't a great option.

Put simply, the challenge for us here is-

• Change her enough that she feels noticeably more interactive for opponents.
• Don't change her so much that she loses her identity - she should still feel like Chromie.
• Figure out how to compensate loss of power from the removal of frustrating elements, without pushing her right back over the line in a different way.

There are many ways we could address the first and third items on that list, but the second one is where things get a bit more difficult. So with that I'd pose the question to you Chromie players out there:

Which parts of Chromie do you feel are core to her identity and which would you feel comfortable seeing changed (assuming she got something else in return)? Is it her long range that defines her? Her burst damage? Her ability to scale hard if she does well on her Quest? Her disruption via Time Traps and Slowing Sands? Some combination of these or something else entirely?

Follow-up Post

Glad to see really good discussion coming out of this. Thanks everyone!

A few quick thoughts on main points-

• The goal here isn't to make Chromie weaker. A Hero can feel distinct and powerful to play as, and still be fun to play against.
• We've already seen feedback on playing against Chromie and it's the reason we're having these discussions. The question I posed earlier is focused on the perspective of playing as Chromie, and what makes her feel fun/unique to you personally.
• Looking through the replies so far, I already see some consistent themes bubbling up, which is great.

While I can't speak to what changes may or may not happen at this point, I love that we're getting so much player feedback on this and we'll be keeping it in mind as we talk about potential future plans for Chromie.

[Myke 42]

Reduce her range. That's really all that's needed. She should be viewable when she's using her abilities, not 50 yds away.

[Peaches9 15]

Making Dragon's Breath visible is all I ask for. No hero feels as luck-based to fight as Chromie for this reason. Abilities should have counterplay options, and "move in a randomly chosen direction and hope you guessed right" shouldn't be the optimal play.

I'd be ok with a corresponding buff to it, even. Maybe make Dragon's Eye baseline? This would be a fine change if it were visible, since it would change the talent's effect from "#$&% someone over real hard if they're super unlucky" to "reward Chromie for good aim/ team coordination".

[adondriel 1]

1 minute ago, Peaches9 said:

Making Dragon's Breath visible is all I ask for. No hero feels as luck-based to fight as Chromie for this reason. Abilities should have counterplay options, and "move in a randomly chosen direction and hope you guessed right" shouldn't be the optimal play.

I'd be ok with a corresponding buff to it, even. Maybe make Dragon's Eye baseline? This would be a fine change if it were visible, since it would change the talent's effect from "#$&% someone over real hard if they're super unlucky" to "reward Chromie for good aim/ team coordination".

I think a small range decrease would also be in order, also, maybe make it so that if she casts a spell she gets revealed, might make her feel less broken. Either or, a range decrease or reveal her location when she is casting. Probably not both, as that seems like it might be a bit too big of a nerf.

[SteveFrost 97]

"Chromie is balanced" Good one, Blizz, good one.

"Don't worry, this is gonna get nerfed." Inb4, Chromie buffs every 2nd patch

[ZeroFPS 6]

Just reduce the damage, cooldown and cost of Dragon's Breath, i.e. reduce her burst. The most frustrating thing ever is to step on some invisible hourglass and get 90% health melted away instantly. A hero who's so good at poking shouldn't be equally good at bursting down enemies. And maybe a little range decrease on Q and W would be nice.

Laning against Chromie minus the hourglass is actually quite fun for both players because you're playing mindgames with your opponent. Prediction abilities aren't really random; you may get a bit lucky here and there, but what matters most is reading your opponent's mind, both playing and playing against her. Any player can dodge a Dragon's Breath if it's visible, and reduces its use to only combo'd with stuns and the goddamn hourglass, which is the most frustrating thing in the first place.

[Ponery 1]

16 minutes ago, ZeroFPS said:

Just reduce the damage, cooldown and cost of Dragon's Breath, i.e. reduce her burst. The most frustrating thing ever is to step on some invisible hourglass and get 90% health melted away instantly. A hero who's so good at poking shouldn't be equally good at bursting down enemies. And maybe a little range decrease on Q and W would be nice.

Laning against Chromie minus the hourglass is actually quite fun for both players because you're playing mindgames with your opponent. Prediction abilities aren't really random; you may get a bit lucky here and there, but what matters most is reading your opponent's mind, both playing and playing against her. Any player can dodge a Dragon's Breath if it's visible, and reduces its use to only combo'd with stuns and the goddamn hourglass, which is the most frustrating thing in the first place.

It's actually not that common to get hit by the chromie hourglasses. I don't know how to nerf chromie, maybe a little range decrease with a buff to cast time, and/or making W visible, but I cast hourglass about maybe 50 times a game, and only like 5 times a game does it get triggered. Also, only like once or twice a game do i actually hit someone time trapped with my full burst.

[Fliits 112]

Making Dragon's Breath visible is really pointless, since most of the time it's easy to predict where Chromie thought you would be when she activates the ability. Due to how you are supposed to counter it, it's range really should be shortened, not by a lot, but just enough so that Chromie is visible to the enemy when she casts it, so that enemy knows that they have to dodge an incoming attack. Also maybe make it do less damage. As a balance you could buff Dragon's Eye and Deep Breathing. Shortening the range of Sand Blast on the other hand is unadvised, since it's already pretty difficult to hit. 

[SenatorBinks27 16]

Sniping someone who can't see it coming is the most fun while playing as Chromie. Seeing them misjudge where I'm aiming. That's my Chromie identity. And if a Chromie correctly anticipates where I'm going to dodge to, to aim dragon's breath to where I'm going to move to avoid where I guess it's going, I feel like "well done". I don't see a reason to change her at all. I don't find her any more frustrating to play against than anyone else.

[Apologised 20]

5 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

"Chromie is balanced" Good one, Blizz, good one.

"Don't worry, this is gonna get nerfed." Inb4, Chromie buffs every 2nd patch

When have you EVER known a Blizzard Rework to actually improve a character? It ALMOST happened with Sonya but then they backpedalled.

[Valhalen 1,484]

 

12 hours ago, Peaches9 said:

Making Dragon's Breath visible is all I ask for. No hero feels as luck-based to fight as Chromie for this reason. Abilities should have counterplay options, and "move in a randomly chosen direction and hope you guessed right" shouldn't be the optimal play.

I'd be ok with a corresponding buff to it, even. Maybe make Dragon's Eye baseline? This would be a fine change if it were visible, since it would change the talent's effect from "#$&% someone over real hard if they're super unlucky" to "reward Chromie for good aim/ team coordination".

I think that would help a lot. I think that also reducing its cast range would be fair since it is a pretty telegraphed move (like most of her kit). That would make the move more rewarding to land with the Dragon's Eye as baseline.

2 hours ago, SenatorBinks27 said:

Sniping someone who can't see it coming is the most fun while playing as Chromie. Seeing them misjudge where I'm aiming. That's my Chromie identity. And if a Chromie correctly anticipates where I'm going to dodge to, to aim dragon's breath to where I'm going to move to avoid where I guess it's going, I feel like "well done". I don't see a reason to change her at all. I don't find her any more frustrating to play against than anyone else.

Yeah, there is that too. Currently Chromie and Hanzo are the only Heroes that can snipe others out of sight. I feel that Chromie is less frustrating than Hanzo, to be honest, because that motherfucker can really spam Storm Bow in a way that tilts me very fast.

Chromie, on ther hand, is a setup-oriented character, she needs to use her surroundings in her advantage to land the perfect traps.

The problem is that fighting against Chromie, specially in Quick Match, can be absurdly frustrating when there is no one to dive at her, which results in a damn annoying snowball. Hammer faces a similar problem in this regard too; if there is no one to take her down she will obliterate all the forts.

________________

Since we're talking about reworking some Heroes, how about Probius and Anu'arak? They are two Heroes I feel are left behind in the meta because there are other Heroes that can what they do much better.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Valhalen

[Brutalis 165]

The fact she has this binary playstyle, where you either stay back and do loads of damage or you get bursted and die if you get too close, is the core aspect of the hero. Rework the level 11 tier completely so she has no survivability at all when the enemy assassins get to her. Give her no counterplay to being dove to punish bad positioning. The ability to stay out of sight and, if you're smart and practiced enough, nuke people is Chromie. Without that there's not too much separating her from any other mage. She'll just be a squishy burst-focused hero.

What I do think, though, is Time Trap could be replaced. Giving players the capability to guarantee they land their Q and W from level 1 is dull. I don't mind Temporal Loop doing that because that's a 70 sec CD heroic that has some counterplay involved but Time Trap is probably what needs to go. Again it can be used to stop you getting dived, camping near one as you stand on the backline and kiting assassins over it as they chase you down.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Brutalis

[MrOger 20]

4 hours ago, SenatorBinks27 said:

Sniping someone who can't see it coming is the most fun while playing as Chromie. Seeing them misjudge where I'm aiming. That's my Chromie identity. And if a Chromie correctly anticipates where I'm going to dodge to, to aim dragon's breath to where I'm going to move to avoid where I guess it's going, I feel like "well done". I don't see a reason to change her at all. I don't find her any more frustrating to play against than anyone else.

Well, they changed stealth and killed most of my favorite characters.  They easily can do same to Chromie.
Even tho they killed Nova before stealth rework haha.

Edited May 30, 2018 by MrOger

[XeaKon 23]

Reduce her range and time trap radius(so you can distroy it with melee ). She has very long range, time trap nullifies divers, and her defensive talents make her even more difficult to kill(timeout, bye bye). At the moment I think only Zeratul can kill her reliable.

[Valhalen 1,484]

7 minutes ago, MrOger said:

Well, they changed stealth and killed most of my favorite characters.  They easily can do same to Chromie.
Even tho they killed Nova before stealth rework haha.

Valeera and Zeratul are still very viable. Zeratul can deal some nasty eye-watering damage with some builds.

Stealth just requires a lot more of thought and strategy now, instead of ROFLstomping everything.

1 minute ago, XeaKon said:

Reduce her range and time trap radius(so you can distroy it with melee ). She has very long range, time trap nullifies divers, and her defensive talents make her even more difficult to kill(timeout, bye bye). At the moment I think only Zeratul can kill her reliable.

If she picks Bye Bye! Zeratul can't kill her. And if there is a dive in the enemy team, a good Chromie will always pick this talent. I think Valeera is best suited to kill Chromie due Garrote, as well the fact that Valeera has the smallest frame of all the stealth Heroes, so even though it is really easy to spot stealth now, in the heat of the battle Chromie will be concentrated on targets miles away, which gives Valeera a way to sneak in.

Despite losing From the Shadows, Diablo still is a solid counter for her, due his gigantic healthpool and lots of stuns and displacements to prevent her from using Bye Bye!.

[MrOger 20]

3 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

Valeera and Zeratul are still very viable. Zeratul can deal some nasty eye-watering damage with some builds.

Stealth just requires a lot more of thought and strategy now, instead of ROFLstomping everything.

Well i'm not complaining that they made Nova balanced, but about losing her identity as snowball ranged assassin. While stealth rework made her q stacks as baseline (which i find a pretty good idea) nerf of stealth hit too hard on her defensive capabilities. Zeratul never was reliant on stealth anyway, so he don't miss stealth at all. Most of my grumpyness with stealth rework is about Valeera - rework hit her too hard. Like, ye, garrote build is still strong, but it's kind of the only build remained. She could use more true invisibility time on her passive for better mindgames, or even introduce new talent ability to give her short true invisibility while already in stealth for her openings.

[Valhalen 1,484]

4 minutes ago, MrOger said:

Well i'm not complaining that they made Nova balanced, but about losing her identity as snowball ranged assassin. While stealth rework made her q stacks as baseline (which i find a pretty good idea) nerf of stealth hit too hard on her defensive capabilities. Zeratul never was reliant on stealth anyway, so he don't miss stealth at all. Most of my grumpyness with stealth rework is about Valeera - rework hit her too hard. Like, ye, garrote build is still strong, but it's kind of the only build remained. She could use more true invisibility time on her passive for better mindgames, or even introduce new talent ability to give her short true invisibility while already in stealth for her openings.

I think that for the sake of balance in all game modes (Quick Match and Ranked), they nerfed Valeera in a way she doesn't make the game too frustrating for new players, which is actually the reason they reworked stealth mechanics.

So instead of being burst monster as she was on launch, Valeera now is more focused on disables and securing kills for the rest of her team, rather than killing everything herself.

Sure, it made her lose some of her identity as a "WoW Rogue", but Rogues were never a balanced class to begin with, specially in Vanilla. So for the sake of the health of the game, this was the best decision. She still has a very strong burst-oriented build that can do around 2k damage, if I'm not wrong.

[MrOger 20]

1 minute ago, Valhalen said:

I think that for the sake of balance in all game modes (Quick Match and Ranked), they nerfed Valeera in a way she doesn't make the game too frustrating for new players, which is actually the reason they reworked stealth mechanics.

So instead of being burst monster as she was on launch, Valeera now is more focused on disables and securing kills for the rest of her team, rather than killing everything herself.

Sure, it made her lose some of her identity as a "WoW Rogue", but Rogues were never a balanced class to begin with, specially in Vanilla. So for the sake of the health of the game, this was the best decision. She still has a very strong burst-oriented build that can do around 2k damage, if I'm not wrong.

Ye, i remember about her Q oriented build, but i dislike it for reducing her already poor mobility. Relying on others for kill is most stupid idea for character design that literally screams "ASSASSIN", no offense. And moving toward "friendliness for new players" is a good way to bring the richness of the game down, fun games are not where everyone is balanced around each other, but where everyone is op in their own way.

[MrOger 20]

I think they actually could play with poison based abilities, like introduce talent on same tier of her other poisons that, for example, brings damage of all abilities down by 30%, but makes them deal 80% additional damage over 5 seconds.

[Godeyes 25]

I'm reading all this comments about Chromie and I actually can't believe people are SO BAD at this game. Because you must be if you are "so frustrated" when Chromie hits you (at the same time Im NOT saying Im a master here). Acording to Blizz Im platinum level player and I have NEVER felt any oppression from this hero. I enjoy playing her and I really enjoy playing vs her (because  even when she is my opponent I can test how good I am. How good can I dodge her Q's. How good am I at remembering where is her trap. How good can I predict where she shot her W. Etc. )
Also you can almost instantly recognize a good Chromie player that spent HUNDREDS of hours to master her in comparison to a bad player that is easy to avoid and very predictable. Yes - she can scale nicely in late game IF YOU LET HER. Yes - she can burst you down in the late game IF YOU LET HER. Or if your team is COMPLETELY clueless.
Also - she has no escape other then 'Bye-bye' which can be easily interrupted with any stun.
Also - she has almost no mobility tools (other then 'Here and there')
Also - she is very squishy.

People complain about hero itself but in reality most of my games when I lose to Chromie look like this:
- 2-3 morons players stay mid most of the game and take SHOT AFTER SHOT from Chromie's Q stacking her like crazy
- players don't look at Chromie's animation and then they whine that they can't see her W
- if players are backing away from tf they go in a straight line and then wonder how could Chromie predict them with her W
- if Chromie uses her Temporal Loop, healer can't time his cleanse properly to negate it
- if targeted hero has some escape option or invulnerability he can't time it properly to negate it
- if my team has an option to just jump Chromie and insta-kill her to negate her TL, they don't do it - even if its a free kill. They just run away and get hit with W+Q anyways...
- etc. etc. etc.

IMO Chromie is great and unique hero that rewards you for mastering her. And punishes bad players for... being bad.
Im not saying she is perfect - maybe she needs some tuning, but imo more in stats and timers then changing her core playstyle.

BTW (from Hotslogs):
Bronze - Gold = 40% win rate
Platinum = 48% wr
Diamond - Master = 51,5% wr

P.S. Just to be clear - I got my ass whooped by good Chromies MANY TIMES. But that doesn't mean the hero is broken or OP.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Godeyes

[Valhalen 1,484]

3 minutes ago, Godeyes said:

I'm reading all this comments about Chromie and I actually can't believe people are SO BAD at this game.

Hey man, your opinion is very appreciated, but different players have different levels of skill. Your comment, while it had a lot of weight and solid arguments, was very rude in some points, with that "GIT GUD" attitude. If people don't know how to deal with Chromie, they can learn with positive feedback. I would have appreciated your comment a lot more if it didn't include insults.

Also:

5 minutes ago, Godeyes said:

when I loose to Chromie looks like this

*lose

[Godeyes 25]

2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Hey man, your opinion is very appreciated, but different players have different levels of skill. Your comment, while it had a lot of weight and solid arguments, was very rude in some points, with that "GIT GUD" attitude. If people don't know how to deal with Chromie, they can learn with positive feedback. I would have appreciated your comment a lot more if it didn't include insults.

But GIT GUD is exactly what you have to do in this game. Im playing 2,5 years now and Im sick of people whining ALL THE TIME without any proper reason. The reason is "Im a bad player and can't deal with good Chromie players. Nerf Chromie". This is insane.

Also it is sad that you are one of "those guys" that hear "toxicity/insults/trashtalk" instead of just criticism.
Sb is making a point that you are not good enough if you state that 40% wr hero is OP - just accuse them of insults and DO NOT change anything. Keep calm and stay bad. Then go to official forums and make a crypost that Chromie just whooped your ass and they should nerf it. Sure that attitude is way better then "git gud attitude".

I srsly don't want to attack you personally or anything like that (so pls don't get offended) but to prove my point... here are your words from december last year where they "nerfed" (removed pull from his grounbreaker) Garrosh:

On 12/21/2017 at 12:13 PM, Valhalen said:

RIP Garrosh. I know his gameplay was considered "toxic", but changing that pretty much kills the entire concept of the character. Now he's just another tank with stun. But let's see how this play out.

Now he is just another TOP tank.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Godeyes

[SteveFrost 97]

9 hours ago, Apologised said:

When have you EVER known a Blizzard Rework to actually improve a character? It ALMOST happened with Sonya but then they backpedalled.

Short answer: Yes, though infrequently.

Long answer: Most of the Heroes that have received reworks are ones I don't like/play. For those that I do, I'll share my thoughts:

Zul'jin: The latest changes landed very well, he now has many interesting choices and paths he can take.

Zeratul: Same with Zul'jin; tho he has had a lot more changes in the past by comparison, his tree feels adequately branched and diverse.

Nova: From disappointment to disappointment. Though her original state was pretty feast or famine, her first rework was the definition of epic fail. They practically took away her burst damage which was the only thing she had going for her and left her at that. Then they did some "buffs" from time to time (most of which were negligible). The 2nd time, the new talents were nice (but not too many of them), the baseline quest spot on, however they still failed to deliver on their goal to make her "healthier" and "fit for a competitive environment" (which was the goal since the first rework, their exact words) she still feels extremely one-dimensional and even Samuro makes for a better stealthy assassin imho.

Alarak: Him I don't play as much as the others but I enjoy how challenging he is to play well and how rewarding it feels when you manage so. Feels ok to me, at least for the most part.

Valla: Pretty well done, all I have to say.

Varian: I don't think "rework" cuts it here but nevertheless, the changes were helpful to him.

Tyrandu: She has had many changes, others good, others terribad. Now her tree is mostly ok imho, offers a good variety. She could use some light touches, hope the changes they have planned don't ruin her as a versatile character.

Malfurion: Another troubled one, lately they've done pretty well with him, adding the burst heal option cause burst heal is best heal and he was pretty much the only one without it. He may be pretty strong currently but a name like his deserves that imho.

Illidan: His was the first major rework iirc. While it worked on its goal, make him feel stronger, scale and increase his talent options, subsequent nerfs along with other changes (more counter options/"better" assassins, etc) pushed him out of the picture.

Medivh: Making The Master's Touch a baseline quest was single-handedly one of the best changes they've done in years. Overall, he feels better and funnier to play than before imho.

Cho'gall: I think the changes really hurt him (big nerf) especially Gall, but the core essence of the Hero hasn't changed; with good coordination, he becomes pretty much a raid boss.

Johanna: I particularly enjoyed the change to Blessed Hammer, always went for that talent even if it was considered subpar, now it is a solid one and overall I'm happy with how they treated her.

Muradin: He didn't need much work and they thought the same way, which was good. A bit sad you can't have both Skullcracker and Give 'em the Axe! (with how they used to be) and they could really make wonders with Dwarf Toss and its associated talents imho but I still enjoy him greatly, pros outweigh the cons.

Tyrael: If anyone's been reading my posts carefully, he would have noticed a pattern; that I talked about 2 specific Heroes most of the time. Two Heroes I had level 10 complete with Master skin on 2 accounts (Europe and NA) with the old, painfully grindy system. He waited far too long to get a rework (others getting two or even three before him & being in a much better spot) being nerfed to oblivion in the meantime. When the rework finally came, I was left with a bittersweet taste. His tree became much better (it was tragic tbh), branching with many and interesting choices, new talents were nice (tho again fewer than I'd like) but the bad thing imho was that, it seemed like the devs still didn't really know what they wanted him to do and that reflected on the changes; jack-of-all-trades master of none. For the Archangel of Justice, I sure felt there was quite a bit of potential wasted tho at least he's much better than where he was left at. Hopefully they won't ruin him with constant nerfs again.

Jaina: The other of the aforementioned 2 and my waifu. Now, I've talked about her A LOT of times, I'll try to keep it laconic here. Pretty much same with Tyrael; her rework was EXTREMELY LONG OVERDUE, imho she was left to rot for an unfair amount of time after suffering a large amount of consecutive, unwarranted nerfs (while Chromie and others kept getting buffed). When the rework came, again, same with Tyrael. Difference being new talents were scarce (I believe they were just 2-3) and they didn't do much to alleviate most of her issues (giving her the range and/or radius increases baseline instead making Snow Crash baseline and reducing Blizzard 's damage, so in most cases, it did much less damage than before) which made her subpar compared to most other mages who were considered dominant and for good reason (advantage in range, radius, cooldowns, mana cost etc). At least she's not in the same boat as she was and I'm grateful for that. Hopefully, she can get a bit more love.

Now, the issue with Chromie imho is not just how much damage she can do and from what range but also how frequently (cooldowns? mana costs? what are those?) and as some others pointed out, from out of vision range. Also, she breaks one of HotS' most core elements; by getting her talents not one, but 2 LEVELS EARLIER  (of the biggest reasons why I consider her broken) she openly defies the "there's no I in team" philosophy since there's no individual but team level. Even if her team isn't doing very well, she isn't much affected or taken back by it. Now, I really wanna know how the devs consider this "fair" and "balanced". In the patch where they made this change, the "reasoning" was 'we're confident we can add power that resonates with the Hero and fits with his fantasy" or something along those lines. Ok then, Kerrigan should shoot thunderbolts from her hands and telekinetically push/destroy other people and things.

Edited May 30, 2018 by SteveFrost

[Valhalen 1,484]

28 minutes ago, SteveFrost said:

(Nova) still feels extremely one-dimensional and even Samuro makes for a better stealthy assassin imho.

The problem is that Nova's gameplay style is one-dimensional. That's a problem with her entire kit. She offers little beyond being annoying and poking you with snipes. Blizzard should take the Zul'jin route and rework her in a way that she is offered more talents that at least give her two routes: Basic Attack Damage or Ability Damage.

30 minutes ago, SteveFrost said:

(Tyrande) could use some light touches, hope the changes they have planned don't ruin her as a versatile character.

Tyrande is the polar opposite of Nova. Where Nova is one-dimensional, Tyrande does a lot of shit, but doesn't excel at any. Which is not bad, but I feel that they need to rework her in a way that offers her four paths: versatility, utility, damage, healing. That way you can either be a jack-of-all-trades and master of none, or focus on strenghting specific attributes and spells. Kinda like making her akin to Kharazim.

33 minutes ago, SteveFrost said:

Cho'gall: I think the changes really hurt him (big nerf) especially Gall

The nerfs hit Gall, really. Cho is a thousand times better than her was before. His Basic Attack Build becomes insanely strong in the mid-late game, making him a nasty and sturdy Bruiser. I wish they'd give Gall some buffs, because he is really shitty now, although has some neat talent combinations (Twilight Nova + Leaden Orb). But I think that if they reverted the nerf to Dread Orb's radius he'd be more interesting to play.

39 minutes ago, SteveFrost said:

it seemed like the devs still didn't really know what they wanted (Tyrael) to do and that reflected on the changes; jack-of-all-trades master of none.

Yes, I believe he suffers a similar problem that of Tyrande. He has a diverse kit, which makes hard to balance without making him too OP. Maybe refining some talents to add him three separate routes similarly to what I suggested to Tyrande would work: utility, tanking and bruising.

____

Also, I'd like to talk about the Rexxar rework. While it made him a way more viable character than the piece of trash he was before, I still believe Blizzard could do so much more with him. Because, at least to me, he doesn't really fit with the "fantasy" of a Hunter. I made a whole post about what a cool rework for him could be in my "Heroes of the Brainstorm" thread, and even posted in the Official Forums, but I highly doubt it'll reach Blizzard.

[ArtVandelay 24]

I don't see Chromie as OP.  The only skill I have an issue with is temporal loop.  I would not mind a range nerf to that.