zombiecurse 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) So, I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here, but . . . Can someone explain to me why # 2 on the dual-wielding rotation says: "Cast Howling Blast when both Death or both Frost runes are available." Why does it matter when I'm using obliterate as long as I'm using up my unholy runes? I'm guessing this has something to do with being rune capped and wanting to ensure that your always regenerating frost and death runes? Could someone explain? Basically, this is what I'm asking: Given a situation where my diseases are up and I'm flush with death and frost runes (2 of each), I'd like to know what the difference is between getting whatever unholy runes I have out of the way using obliterate first (the assumption being that I don't need to D&D or refresh blood plague with plague strike in the near future), and using frost and death runes on howling blast before you use obliterate. Also: Say I have two death runes, two frost runes, a single unholy rune, and I don't need to refresh blood plague or D&D soon. Is the guide saying to burn my runes until I have only enough to cast obliterate (1frost/death + 1 unholy), or is it saying to just burn one rune (still have three death/frost runes), then burn the single unholy rune on an obliterate, then return to using frost/death runes on howling blast? Any help would be appreciated. Edited November 20, 2013 by zombiecurse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Storm 426 Report post Posted November 20, 2013 I think it's just written in a confusing way. - You should obliterate first any time both unholy runes are up and you don't need to use DnD or plague strike. - If you are using blood tap then you would also Obliterate away both of your unholy runes just before using blood tap to turn one of them into a death rune. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zombiecurse 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2013 Thanks for the quick reply. In relation to this, should you be pausing a bit to make sure you're not wasting a killing machine proc? I know that KM should always be used on Frost Strike, but honestly, I get so many of them I'm not sure that it matters if I blow a few on obliterate as long as I'm spending the majority of them on FS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Storm 426 Report post Posted November 20, 2013 The correct Min/Max answer is that you should wait out most of your GCD before hitting obliterate so you don't waste killing machine procs. But it doesn't make as big of a difference for DW because you won't obliterate nearly as much as 2H frost strikes. So you won't have as many chances to waste it anyways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Failhard 2 Report post Posted November 20, 2013 That section of the guide is wordy and hard to understand. It does matter if you waste KM procs on oblit. compare the crit damage a FS does the crit dmg an oblit does. Its at least a 30% loss to use KM procs on oblit. There is a similar topic found here: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/3663-dual-wield-frost-dk-to-obliterate-or-not/ To sum up what I said in that thread again though: "Don't even bother using oblit at all" its not a dps loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omnae 8 Report post Posted November 20, 2013 There is no reason to use obliterate as dw, with the blood tap talent you want to make sure your unholy runes stay turned into death runes as much as possible. I use PS then BT to make sure BT turns an unholy rune and not a frost rune which is a waste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zombiecurse 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2013 There is no reason to use obliterate as dw, with the blood tap talent you want to make sure your unholy runes stay turned into death runes as much as possible. I use PS then BT to make sure BT turns an unholy rune and not a frost rune which is a waste. This doesn't really make sense to me. The math is telling me that using obliterate when you don't need to refresh plague or D&D puts out more dmg than just using plague strike. I note that the plague strike rotation here on icy veins says that using plague strike on your unholy runes puts out less dps than using obliterate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omnae 8 Report post Posted November 21, 2013 This doesn't really make sense to me. The math is telling me that using obliterate when you don't need to refresh plague or D&D puts out more dmg than just using plague strike. I note that the plague strike rotation here on icy veins says that using plague strike on your unholy runes puts out less dps than using obliterate. Are you comparing obliterate to just plague strike? or obliterate to plague strike + howling blast? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zombiecurse 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2013 Are you comparing obliterate to just plague strike? or obliterate to plague strike + howling blast? Plague strike + howling blast. I don't have specific numbers in front of me right now, but I'll check when I get home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
