Unholy Death Knight 8.3

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Unholy Death Knight guide.

[Guest Külldrash]

Hi there. So I must assume that from the start of BFA, UH > Frost?¿

 

Thx a lot.

[Valks 2,375]

14 hours ago, Guest Külldrash said:

Hi there. So I must assume that from the start of BFA, UH > Frost?¿

 

Thx a lot.

Going to have to wait and see for that - things are changing a lot with aura hotfixes, damage hotfixes etc.

[Guest Flapjacks]

Umm, cold heart isn't a talent for unholy DKs so I don't see any reason why it's mentioned or so high up the list.

[Valks 2,375]

5 hours ago, Guest Flapjacks said:

Umm, cold heart isn't a talent for unholy DKs so I don't see any reason why it's mentioned or so high up the list.

You should be using the Cold Heart legendary to give you that effect, as recommended on the gear page.

[Guest Thisguy]

A quick note, the talent on the top row All Shall Serve no longer removes Raise Dead's cooldown, it now only summons the skeleton. Is the talent still good for the skeleton or does that change it being worth getting?

[Guest unholy moly]

-56 i dont know clawing shadows rly ? or all will serve that makes no sense its better to have the claws even for the bossfights its good to have source that pops your wounds so you dont overstack your festering woundsand you can use youre festering strike more oftenand when you take ungoly frenzy as you suggest its even better.

-57bursting sorce i dont know if that is better i mean its 25% and not 50% anymore i would still go for ebon fever because it boosts your aoe dmg too and i would never take bursting sorce for a raid even if there are 3 adds your ebon fever does more dmg in this situation becuase of the duration they will live.

-58i think grip of the dead is good for m+ and bosses with adds asphyxiate is good when the target is stunnable that means +1 kick

-60 garbringer useless soulreaper should be changed and give us the haste buff back on bursting festering wounds since they dont its more likely to use in pvp since the "real generation of runes" is 1 maybe when its 2 it would be good to compromise the haste nerf that we are rn suffer from the scaling

-75anti magic shield is a must have it generates runic power so you want to stand in magic dmg void zones until your magic shield absobs the full amond of dmg but to gear up the legendary? :insert God pls No GIF: its useless you want it to absorb dmg asap and generate the runic power of it and not increase the duration and lose i dont klnow cold heart or the 40% dmg buff for your armie/gargole

-75 pestilence best option here  since everthing is aoe and we know that DaD spreads our scourge strike to hit everything near the target so when it applies a festering wound its a fiesta for our dps my rota is pretty easy for aoe like this DaD-DT-spam SS(and hope for the festering wounds) well that is how the ccdew explained the aoe high dps and i did it too so it was good to see that other unholy dks do this too.

-100 thats a hard one unholy frenzy you can pick it for burst yeah and of course whn youre lucky it fills your 2-3 sec cd stops or when you have not enough runes for your festering strike but i would go for army of the damned because it is still strong i know Apokalypse got nerfed but i dont think that unholy frenzy is stronger gargoyle has to high cs to be a good pick for raid(when gargolye comes up you had 3 apokalypse up that means 1175*3+ the dmg that the ghouls do)  but for dungeons you can take it in m+ it will be useless since the fights will last longer 

this is my opinion about the talents of you can say its not good but these are my thoughts i was/am a good dd i cleared mythic content

now now but pls dont expect s unholy ever be on 1. on dps scales other classes are just too strong for us i know its hard to get grps a unholy dk because they always want to see a frost dk but i play unholy since WotLk and i wont reroll my class or try out to be a frost dk because frost you know they have 2 1h swords that meakes no sense to me  since Arthas and Nerzhul had Frostmourne and its a fuckin 2h weapon and its like  the perfect thought to let the frost dks use a fuckin 2h sword and not be useless

 have a good day 

sorry for my english its not my native language nor the language of my country ^^

 

 

 

 

[Valks 2,375]

I've let Abyssal know about the two comments above, we'll look into them shortly!

[Guest Flapjacks]

Yes, but why is the talent mentioned at all on an unholy page is the question. Sure, it's good for the effect but why mention the talent at all on a spec that doesn't have the talent?

[Valks 2,375]

11 hours ago, Guest unholy moly said:

this is my opinion about the talents of you can say its not good but these are my thoughts i was/am a good dd i cleared mythic content

We went through your feedback on some of the talents, but most of what we have in the guide currently is based around sims that are being run in the DK discord. The effort in your post was brilliant, so thank you for that, but numerically, the talents we have up right now are the best performing for UH, at least for now.

[Valks 2,375]

35 minutes ago, Guest Flapjacks said:

Yes, but why is the talent mentioned at all on an unholy page is the question. Sure, it's good for the effect but why mention the talent at all on a spec that doesn't have the talent?

I'll get Abyss to fix the ID on the spell. The same effect is given by the Cold Heart legendary, which is used by Unholy as their BiS. It is not Frost exclusive, only the talent is. The legendary also buffs Chains of Ice to deal damage, capping at 20 stacks.

[Guest Fflint]

I checked my stat weights on raidbots yesterday and it's as follow 

Str 2.97

Vers 2.35

Haste 2.29

Mastery 2.15

Crit 2.05

gs 236

 

i am a little confused because it seemed to have turned around a little. would like to hear your guys opinion on it.

 

[Valks 2,375]

5 hours ago, Guest Fflint said:

I am a little confused because it seemed to have turned around a little. would like to hear your guys opinion on it.

SimC builds are changing constantly at the moment as they work to perfect the APLs and, in the instance of stat weights, your sim shows personal weights. It depends entirely on your current gear setup. If you change a few pieces of gear, it will change completely again.

[Guest Fflint]

Sephuz's Secret also proc's with death grip!

[Axonis 0]

Compared to other guides, such as Enhancement Shaman or Havoc Demon Hunter (both by Wordup), you can see the difference in explanations, which might be caused by lack of interest or deeper understanding of the spec. Half of the guide, is basically copy of text abilities.

The guide overall is fine, some parts are nice and detailed, but there are also mistakes:

Introduction:

Unholy DK strengths and weaknesses:

• Unholy DK's AoE or single target niche really depends on the talent selection, it's not entirely true to say, it has everything, when it depends on talents. In heavily stacked AoE situation having talent Bursting Sores makes DK excel in AoE burst as well as sutatined AoE, but lack in single target. So it might be nice to mention why is it so.
• Damage mitigation on Unholy DK is "excellent" up to a certain point, after which, it makes it lackluster. If a magic dealing ability is going to kill you even through AMS, you can't do much. Also Icebound Fortitude is on very high cooldown, while providing below average damage reduction, when compared to other classes. Also Unholy lost 20% DR from AoE abilities. DK lacks immunity, higher damage reduction or lower cooldown damage reduction to be called excellent.
• Raid utility is very situational, as seen on Aggramar. You can't grip most of the enemies in raid instances or stun either. If so, it's a specific situation.  Raid utility could be rather in AMS, which could be used in advance to soak magic ability and not get the harmful effect.
• You've also forgot to mention horrible target switching due to Festering Wounds which corresponds also with the high ramp up time.

Rotation and Cooldowns section:

• 4.3 - Festering Strike generates 2-3 stacks, with uniform generator, which would be nice to mention.
• 4.5.3 - Cold Heart is not a talent for Unholy DK.
• 4.5.3 - At the end - Pooling of Runic Power is impossible due to it reseting to 20 at the pull

 

Many talent choices lack even the basic explanation, why is no.1 better than no.2, as mentioned, other guides state why and some further description.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Axonis
feedback

[Valks 2,375]

5 hours ago, Axonis said:

Many talent choices lack even the basic explanation, why is no.1 better than no.2, as mentioned, other guides state why and some further description.

I'll pass your feedback on, but one thing I'd like to mention - sometimes there is very little to explain when saying one is better than the other.

Take the Tier 7 talents, for example:

Gargoyle, currently, is just numerically worse than the other two talents. It's not due to a special interaction or anything like that. It is simply worse tuned and does less damage. There isn't a lot you can elaborate on with this comparison.

This goes for a lot of the talents in UH currently. Most of them aren't better because they have a special impact on the rotation, they are just much, much better tuned. Ebon Fever, while it sounds interesting, doesn't make our DoTs line up or do anything special. It just makes VP do more damage in a shorter amount of time.

I feel that Abyssal does a decent job of making sure that, when there are talents that can be discussed, he does so. If you do feel that this isn't true, can you tell me where you would like to see more discussion, like which Tier? I can ask for that to be added, but for now, I'm just guessing at which talent tiers you mean. 

I'm passing on the rest of your feedback though, thank you!

[Valks 2,375]

21 hours ago, Axonis said:

Many talent choices lack even the basic explanation, why is no.1 better than no.2, as mentioned, other guides state why and some further description.

After further discussion with Abyssal, there are sections where he holds back on detail in talent comparisons, like the ones I mentioned above. When there is just a straight DPS loss by taking another talent, he chooses to keep it simple by saying a talent is simply worse. In the past, having additional detail that linked to sims discussing it, breakdowns of damage dealt, etc. has ended up confusing people to achieve the same goal of saying: it does less damage, it's worse.

He is adding a few extra descriptions, but as it stands, some of them just can't be elaborated on without linking massive lists of sims comparing talents with different setups, showing percentage differences, etc.

Hope this helps understand why it is like this, whereas for other classes, they can need a bit more explanation to describe why talents are worse/better. Another guide that does this is Marksmanship Hunter, for example, where there is little to be said for some talents - just that they are worse.

[Guest Synthetik]

Found an error in the Unholy guide:

9.1. Unholy Death Knight War Mode Talents

In this section we will rank the PvP talents best for leveling and doing solo / small group PvE content. Below is a ranking of both General PvP Talents and Discipline Priest-specific PvE talents.

[Guest Sesoni]

As of right now for Unholy, Strength > Haste > Crit > Mastery, seems to yield the most dmg. I dropped all of my unholy gear and just put on my Frost's Haste/Crit set and my DPS almost doubled.

[Valks 2,375]

18 hours ago, Guest Synthetik said:

Found an error in the Unholy guide:

9.1. Unholy Death Knight War Mode Talents

In this section we will rank the PvP talents best for leveling and doing solo / small group PvE content. Below is a ranking of both General PvP Talents and Discipline Priest-specific PvE talents.

Will get that fixed, thanks!

[Valks 2,375]

19 hours ago, Guest Sesoni said:

As of right now for Unholy, Strength > Haste > Crit > Mastery, seems to yield the most dmg. I dropped all of my unholy gear and just put on my Frost's Haste/Crit set and my DPS almost doubled.

We're removing strength from the priority currently, instead giving advice on selecting upgrades based on their item level, but I'd like to see the two sets you simmed against each other here. 

Can you please link me a RaidBots gear comparison sim of your two sets of gear? I don't think I've ever seen two sets of gear have a difference of almost 100%, unless one has ridiculously low item levels in it.

[Wyr3d 1]

Ghoulish Monstrosity isn't on the PVP talent list. You should probably update this

[Guest Sesoni]

On 7/22/2018 at 4:18 PM, Guest Sesoni said:

As of right now for Unholy, Strength > Haste > Crit > Mastery, seems to yield the most dmg. I dropped all of my unholy gear and just put on my Frost's Haste/Crit set and my DPS almost doubled.

 

On 7/23/2018 at 11:23 AM, Blainie said:

We're removing strength from the priority currently, instead giving advice on selecting upgrades based on their item level, but I'd like to see the two sets you simmed against each other here. 

Can you please link me a RaidBots gear comparison sim of your two sets of gear? I don't think I've ever seen two sets of gear have a difference of almost 100%, unless one has ridiculously low item levels in it.

Sorry, I forgot to follow up, but it seems like my success with that stat priority wasn't a fluke as the guide has been updated to follow that stat priority as a general unholy guideline. I'll be sure to submit a Raidbots comparison the next time.

[Valks 2,375]

On 8/13/2018 at 7:56 PM, Guest Sesoni said:

 

Sorry, I forgot to follow up, but it seems like my success with that stat priority wasn't a fluke as the guide has been updated to follow that stat priority as a general unholy guideline. I'll be sure to submit a Raidbots comparison the next time.

No worries at all, but at least everything is sorted on the guide now! ?

[Wyr3d 1]

Um, dude?

You have a helm in the shoulder slot for "best in slot" guide. May wanna fix that.

 

Also, Harrowing Decay isn't in the Azerite Trait Ranking for Unholy Death Knight list despite being in the drop-down options.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Wyr3d