Havoc Demon Hunter 8.3

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Havoc Demon Hunter guide.

[Guest Iskariott]

The opening rotation is not right for the prepatch right now. it mentions using Nemesis and using Eye beam to trigger Metamorphosis. However with current talents you can only have one of this. Either Demonic or Nemesis.

[wordup 37]

1 hour ago, Guest Iskariott said:

The opening rotation is not right for the prepatch right now. it mentions using Nemesis and using Eye beam to trigger Metamorphosis. However with current talents you can only have one of this. Either Demonic or Nemesis.

Will update now, didn't catch the doubled up talent on the second opener section

[Guest Staladiel]

I'm assuming this is without T21 4pc also?

[Guest Felmonster]

The talent choice for the TLDR version does not match that of the in depth explanation.  Most notably, the TLDR version indicates that Insatiable Hunger should be used in the level 100 tier while the in-depth version says not to take this talent at all.

[wordup 37]

3 hours ago, Guest Felmonster said:

The talent choice for the TLDR version does not match that of the in depth explanation.  Most notably, the TLDR version indicates that Insatiable Hunger should be used in the level 100 tier while the in-depth version says not to take this talent at all.

In the Easy page which is, I assume the page you're referring to it does say that the options selected are as lightweight as possible. The performance hit of Insatiable Hunter vs. the others isn't drastic but is noticeable, causing it to not be recommended in the talents page; but it is the least invasive talent on the tree for new players who are looking for a quick build to jump into and learn with.

[wordup 37]

8 hours ago, Guest Staladiel said:

I'm assuming this is without T21 4pc also?

what are you referring to in particular?

[Guest Rohshar]

The Fury management section using demon blades seems incorrect. It mentions using Immolation Aura which is a talent from the same tier, unless I'm just missing something obvious here

[wordup 37]

4 hours ago, Guest Rohshar said:

The Fury management section using demon blades seems incorrect. It mentions using Immolation Aura which is a talent from the same tier, unless I'm just missing something obvious here

Thanks for catching that! I've removed and updated, was an accidental inclusion.

[Guest kakodaimonos]

Does the effect of Chaos Theory still work, even though Chaos Blades got removed from the game? I heard that other legendaries that trigger certain skill effects which got removed don't work anymore. Which would make Chaos Theory a bad choice, I guess.

[Valks 2,375]

2 hours ago, Guest kakodaimonos said:

Does the effect of Chaos Theory still work, even though Chaos Blades got removed from the game? I heard that other legendaries that trigger certain skill effects which got removed don't work anymore. Which would make Chaos Theory a bad choice, I guess.

It still procs CB, yeah.

[wordup 37]

8 hours ago, Guest kakodaimonos said:

Does the effect of Chaos Theory still work, even though Chaos Blades got removed from the game? I heard that other legendaries that trigger certain skill effects which got removed don't work anymore. Which would make Chaos Theory a bad choice, I guess.

Not only does it proc CB but now that auto attacks are more impactful, it's better than it was.

[Guest kakodaimonos]

Tested it on a dummy yesterday. It does indeed proc but it's very rng based with its 10% chance.

In a 4 minute fight it procced only once while I was using Blade Dance around 24 times. So in bad rng situations it's very unreliant.

I'm not a rng fan myself. Maybe Sephuz is a decend choice now. Will test around with it.

Thanks guys.

[Guest Nightbinder]

where does deathsweep and anialation come into this as i simply cant find them in any talent tree or skill book ???

[John 1]

where does the skill deathsweep appear in skill tree and also annihilation  cos i simply cant find these 

[Valks 2,375]

6 hours ago, Guest Nightbinder said:

where does deathsweep and anialation come into this as i simply cant find them in any talent tree or skill book ???

They are only available in Metamorphosis.

[Valks 2,375]

6 hours ago, John said:

where does the skill deathsweep appear in skill tree and also annihilation  cos i simply cant find these 

See my reply above.

[John 1]

thanks man 

 

[Guest iTei]

On 7/20/2018 at 4:39 PM, Guest kakodaimonos said:

Tested it on a dummy yesterday. It does indeed proc but it's very rng based with its 10% chance.

In a 4 minute fight it procced only once while I was using Blade Dance around 24 times. So in bad rng situations it's very unreliant.

I'm not a rng fan myself. Maybe Sephuz is a decend choice now. Will test around with it.

Thanks guys.

Im with you, mate. I also didn't get enough CB procs in a 5 mins fight. Since I got a 260 ring, maybe I will keep using Raddon's Cascading Eyes instead of Sephuz. Or, maybe Kil'Jaeden's Burning Wish, it got decent stats.

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Guest iTei said:

Im with you, mate. I also didn't get enough CB procs in a 5 mins fight. Since I got a 260 ring, maybe I will keep using Raddon's Cascading Eyes instead of Sephuz. Or, maybe Kil'Jaeden's Burning Wish, it got decent stats.

If you want to test it, you can always run a gear sim on RaidBots to see if it's worth using.

[Guest Zenbone]

"Pairing this with Immolation Aura or Demon Blades to allow for background generation instead of committal generation tools such as Demon's Bite can be useful to make the most out of this period, but, in some cases, you will simply have to use active generation due to resource exhaustion caused by RNG. "

 

It is not possible to pair the two first skills with each other as of now since they are both in the same talent level

[Valks 2,375]

7 hours ago, Guest Zenbone said:

It is not possible to pair the two first skills with each other as of now since they are both in the same talent level

The guide said or, not and. It is saying you can pair it with either of them.

[Guest Keyen]

I don't really see how Nemesis is a better option than Demonic in any case. Demonic is 10s metamorphosis every 30s (since meta also benefit eye beam), which gives 25% Hate and +30% damage on Chaos strike and +70% on blade dance.

Nemesis is, at best, 20% damage half the time, or 10% damage on average. Compared to ~8.33% multiplicative haste, 10% chaos strike and 23,33% blade dance, I can't see how it's not at least equivalent.

 

Why does Demonic has a ??? 

[wordup 37]

5 hours ago, Guest Keyen said:

I don't really see how Nemesis is a better option than Demonic in any case. Demonic is 10s metamorphosis every 30s (since meta also benefit eye beam), which gives 25% Hate and +30% damage on Chaos strike and +70% on blade dance.

Nemesis is, at best, 20% damage half the time, or 10% damage on average. Compared to ~8.33% multiplicative haste, 10% chaos strike and 23,33% blade dance, I can't see how it's not at least equivalent.

 

Why does Demonic has a ??? 

Nemesis is simply numerically better and performs better in sims by a good margin. That's because it syncs up with your baseline Meta every time. In a 1:1 clinical situation they are relatively similar, but when observing that cooldown stacking, it's generally more beneficial than more frequent, but interspersed cooldowns. Even with the support of T21 right now, Demonic struggles to keep up with both alternatives, and in the case of a shorter more frequent option, Momentum provides a whole lot in a more flexible package and can also be synced with Meta just like Nemesis.

These differences aren't drastic, but right now it's a ? simply because in single target it is worse to a reasonable (roughly 4%-8%~ generally speaking in high end gear depending on talent pairings) degree that it wouldn't make sense to recommend it. It's also partially due to Demonic leaning on talents that, right now in Legion are numerically inferior in Single Target but have a much better place in a more versatile kit (i.e. Blind Fury/Immolation Aura) that Nemesis doesn't, and can go all in on a very heavy ST build without needing to sacrifice Felblade + Demon Blades.

 

With all that said though, obviously Antorus has some places that can discourage Nemesis (with extended downtime/no long period of pure Single Target uptime) that could let you take Demonic, which is why it isn't labeled with a X.

[Zennen 0]

On 7/27/2018 at 12:48 AM, wordup said:

 

With all that said though, obviously Antorus has some places that can discourage Nemesis (with extended downtime/no long period of pure Single Target uptime) that could let you take Demonic, which is why it isn't labeled with a X.

Specially considering the fact that most people overgear the fights in Antorus right now, making phases last much shorter.