Help With Transition

[Kazistrasz 216]

I am convening this meeting of the Dark Coven of Icy Veins!

 

So, I've cleared 14/14 on normal mode 10-man. I know the heroic mechanics for Immerseus, Protectors, Norushen, IJ, and Nazgrim. I've never done any of them on 25-man. I need the help of all my warlock brothers and sisters.

 

I got my financial stuff straightened back out and...

 

I just got accepted into a 9/14 HM 25-man guild, and have 6 days to know the 25-man differences as well as heroic mechanics on the fights I don't know them yet. Can we be amazing enough to give me little primers on what I'm gonna have to adjust when I get over there? I will give you all hugs and cookies. Okay, we all already have cookies, so I'll give you some sort of stew involving fish and diced mogu. Yum.

 

Really though, I'm excited but kind of nervous.

[Annoroth 5]

Yum, 300 food.

 

To my knowledge, heroic Norushen functions the same as normal Norushen, but is just tougher all around. Though it appears that your new guild has it on farm, it probably won't be a fight you can cut corners on, so just go hard. Hopefully that's a bit reassuring?

 

Though if I recall correctly, you used to raid lead for your previous guild, correct? With that off your shoulders, it should be a smoother learning experience for fights than what you're used to. 

[Kazistrasz 216]

Yes, GM and RL. A little bit of attention will be freed up. :D I just haven't actually trialed in a guild since Ulduar, so it's nerve-wracking.

[Ilion 8]

Galakras-> If you're on gnomes duty, place your Demonic Circle in a place when you can quickly port up the ridge again if the 2nd miniboss pulls you down. Be quick when going to the 2nd tower.

 

If you're on adds, just remember to kill shamans, get shadowfury to stun bonecrushers fast  if there aren't many stuns in your raid.

 

 

Iron Juggernaut-> Most guilds just stay away from him on knockback phase, remember to save defensive CDs and healthstones for those phases.

 

Shamans-> Fairly easy fight if you separate them, just don't stand in shit. Remember to save 1-2 embers so you can make quick work of those goo monsters that Kardriss summons.

 

Nazgrim-> Ask your raid for adds priorities, follow them. Set up your demonic circle far from where you're gonna be standing, so if a rogue starts chasing you, you can have a bit of space.

 

Malkorok-> Maybe you'll be asked to soak some balls, but it will be mostly SP, hunters and dudes with big defensive CD's who will. Just remember what your zone is and get in those pools while dodging balls.

 

 

I've only ever raided it in 25, so don't really know if there are many differences between 10 and 25

[Zagam 1,982]

I think he's just looking for the differences in 25 man compared to 10 man, not how the fights function because those are largely the same.

 

Immerseus: lots more adds.  Our group had 4 people do adds (Spriest, one Destro Lock, 2 Hunters) while everyone else zerged the boss.  This shortened the Immerseus phases greatly.  Healers dispelled DPS who were pushing boss (Mass Dispel) and the fight was largely a joke.

 

Protectors: nothing different

 

Norushen: more adds, nothing to write home to mom about

 

Sha of Pride: more adds, nothing to write home to dad about

 

Galakras: nothing

 

IJ: nothing

 

Dark Shamans: nothing

 

Nazgrim: nothing

 

Malkorok: 3 slimes instead of 1.  8 puddles to soak. 

 

Spoils: nothing

 

Thok: nothing

 

Siegecrafter: more mines

 

Paragons: nothing

 

Garrosh: nothing

 

Typically the only changes come from increased health and damage.  From my observations, there aren't really many other changes other than the ones I noted.

 

Also, be prepared for a lot more input lag at the beginning of fights.  I was cruising at 50-60 FPS in 10 man but I lumber down to 20-30 during 25 Heroic pulls because of all the shit going on.  I dropped a few graphics from High to Good and I saw a notable increase, so be ready to do that.  LFR and Flex isn't the best place to test this kinda stuff because heroic raiders use more abilities which generates more input lag.

 

Be prepared to not optimize your DPS on a fight.  I did more on 10 Heroic Immerseus because I did the adds.  In this 25 man, I was told to burn Immerseus, so my DPS was lower.  There are going to be lots of small changes with the way your new guild will do things.  Focus not on your DPS but surviving and mastering new mechanics.  Don't be afraid to volunteer for shit jobs.  Definitely don't complain about loot.  One thing I did to smooth into my guild was not make any mistakes.  Sounds simple, but you REALLY have to focus on not screwing up at all.  Do NOT miss any assignment and do not wipe the raid.  Talk with your Warlocks.  I created an entire channel for us to bullshit about Warlocks and also talk about strategies.  I forget how to make a new channel, but I made it in channel 6.  It's fun to type /6 and talk to only Warlocks who know about the channel in all green text.  Also, be prepared for your DPS to seem higher than normal.  You wouldn't believe the synergy all classes have together.

[Khaos 5]

 Also, be prepared for your DPS to seem higher than normal.  You wouldn't believe the synergy all classes have together.

 

Slightly offtopic , but i'm switching to a 25m guild sometime soon aswell , and i've been wondering (by looking at logs), how in the hell are 25m numbers so much higher?

[Zagam 1,982]

Higher class composition and CDs.  For one, you don't have to worry about Curse of Elements unless no Rogues exist.  Second, you have as many Stormlash Totems as there are Shamans.  Since 10 mans usually don't have more than 1 Shaman, you'll always get bonus DPS here.  Third, you have Warriors who provide Crit Banners.  When done in rotation, you can have up to 10 seconds for each Warrior with 20% extra Crit damage, aka 20% more Chaos Bolt damage.  I didn't play with a Warrior at all in my 10 man and now I have 3.  You have more defensive CDs as a whole including Devotion Aura for each Paladin, Demo Banners from Warriors, Smoke Bombs from Rogues, etc.  There's never an issue of buffs or debuffs...they're all there.  This easily gives for more DPS.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Thanks for help guys. I just have a lot to learn in a quick bit, so everything helps. Some of the guides out there are way too long-winded, haha.

 

My new guild actually knows you, Zag. I'm joining <Deviant>

Edited November 21, 2013 by Kazistrasza

[Zagam 1,982]

HAHA, that's the guild I left and contemplated returning.  They know why I left, and the person why I left is no longer there.  Eazy is a great guy to get along with.  Boozekeg is hilarious.  Grant is a Rogue who was in my guild when I was GM of my own...you're going to run into a lot of people who know me.  Many liked me, but they're too embarrassed to admit it.  People on Mal'Ganis either hate me or love me.  The haters are usually because I told them their shit stinks, too.  You best be going Troll and updating your picture.  Welcome to the Horde.

[Oldtrout 7]

We lost another gnome :(

Don't really know how much you do of these on normal, but here's some handy stuff for the heroics I've done (we are 8/14 and should get shamans down this week) :

Macros to target the must-kill adds: corrupted fragments on Sha, totems and banners on Galakras / Nazgrim, etc etc.

Gateways and teleports. They are particularly useful on Sha, galakras (p1 gateway to help tower team move quickly, p2 place your telephone... lol autocorrect - at the back of the other group), shaman (just for oh shit), nazgrim to get the hell away from assassins, and obviously malk to stop falling damage.

Another handy thing on Galakras is to always target the shaman while you're FnB'ing so you can instantly interrupt.

Malkorok take soul link / sac vw and pop your big health cd in p2 to soak orbs, but not too quickly. Just a few then heal up and go again.

Probably the only thing you'll actually fail on is the pacman on Sha, and you should be given a little leeway with that. The rest of the stuff is probably less important on 25 than 10

Good luck! Wait, no. I hope you crash and burn, horde scum.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Oldtrout

[Khaos 5]

  You best be going Troll and updating your picture.  

 

But but but....

they look ugly with the CM set!

[Omaric 246]

But but but....

they look ugly with the CM set!

 

EXCUSE MEH!!!???

[Khaos 5]

EXCUSE MEH!!!???

 

THAT SET.

 

it is "MADE" for orcs , don't deny it! 

 

also i gotta move servers and eventually race change , can't afford it :(

[Omaric 246]

I will deny it like the stubborn bastard I am.  It actually looks fantastic on Worgen.

[Zagam 1,982]

I hate how it looks on my Troll.  But...you do what you gotta do.  As soon as this guild downs Heroic Thok, I'm considering going back Orc.  Paragons and Garrosh are of no need of Berserking or Beast Slayer, so I might finally get my oversized shoulders back.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Apparently, you're an angry guy, Zag.  They said something in mumble and I go, "oh, Zagam's a cool guy." "Wait, how do you know Zagam?" *nonchalantly* "Icy Veins."

 

Oh, and of course I'm going troll. It's just going to take until probably Sunday. Won't be bringing my alts immediately, so farming to have all the gems and stuff I could need if I were to replace everything like twice. Also gotta give my current guild the news.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Kazistrasza

[Zagam 1,982]

I had a blast with them except for two people in particular, none of which remain with the guild.  It's kinda funny...I think you're replacing 2-3 people who quit to app to the same guild I'm in now.  It's just a big game of musical chairs.

[Annoroth 5]

THAT SET.

 

it is "MADE" for orcs , don't deny it! 

 

also i gotta move servers and eventually race change , can't afford it

 

Undead or bust on that CM set. If I ever PvP again, I'm going back to that, the bright green and demon-ness complements decaying flesh pretty well. 

[PhilColins 9]

I think he's just looking for the differences in 25 man compared to 10 man, not how the fights function because those are largely the same.

 

Typically the only changes come from increased health and damage.  From my observations, there aren't really many other changes other than the ones I noted.

 

Also, be prepared for a lot more input lag at the beginning of fights.  I was cruising at 50-60 FPS in 10 man but I lumber down to 20-30 during 25 Heroic pulls because of all the shit going on.  I dropped a few graphics from High to Good and I saw a notable increase, so be ready to do that.  LFR and Flex isn't the best place to test this kinda stuff because heroic raiders use more abilities which generates more input lag.

 

Be prepared to not optimize your DPS on a fight.  I did more on 10 Heroic Immerseus because I did the adds.  In this 25 man, I was told to burn Immerseus, so my DPS was lower.  There are going to be lots of small changes with the way your new guild will do things.  Focus not on your DPS but surviving and mastering new mechanics.  Don't be afraid to volunteer for shit jobs.  Definitely don't complain about loot.  One thing I did to smooth into my guild was not make any mistakes.  Sounds simple, but you REALLY have to focus on not screwing up at all.  Do NOT miss any assignment and do not wipe the raid.  Talk with your Warlocks.

I bolded the areas I had to pay particular attention to when I switch from 10 to 25m about 4 weeks in 5.4, Just pay attention to where you're standing and where you should be standing. I find that the biggest mistake players make is not necessarily in their rotation but the priority of adds and where they should be standing. It's very easy to not be in a specific place and wipe the raid because of it. There isn't  much you have to pay particular attention to since you're not the RL anymore, so enjoy that.

 

As a warlock, you "should" be on:

 

Imm: add duty

 

Protectors: everything, dot and dot like 10 man except moar dots.

 

Norushen: the adds have just as much priorty in 25 as in 10. Depending on your guild strat you might not even have time to attack the boss until you come out of the down phase.

 

Sha of Pride: adds, get ready for low FPS, especially when you go into the pac-man phase. I recommend you watch the academy video on it.

 

Galakras: grunts. as a warlock you can drop AoE damage on the clusterfuck of adds AND nuking the grunt down. As someone mentioned earlier, putting your portal down on the hill to the right of the boss (facing away from the docks) is really helpful. Stand up on that hill just in range to drop your RoF and turn and nuke the grunt. I think there are 3 on each side, start on the left side (again, facing away from the docks)

 

IJ: lots of guilds do this boss differently, pick a spot so you don't get knocked back too far, I personally like by the entrance to Dark Shamans.

 

Dark Shamans: your job will be to nuke the adds as quickly as possible, I like to cleave off of the boss. It's not eas to SB the adds but if your FPS can catch it in time, do it.

 

Nazgrim: Stunning and dotting all the adds is useful. I like the tactic of putting your portal on the opposite side of assassin. There's a new add that spawns in the rotation called a Sniper. Make sure to face it away from the raid if it's on you.

 

Malkorok: 3 slimes instead of 1.  8 puddles to soak. Just like in normal, put your portal down. If you can SB the adds, do it.

 

Spoils: as a warlock you gotta nuke the sparks, have fun SB'ing. These adds seems to be easier to SB sub 20% since they have higher HP pools compared to 10 man.

 

Thok: the amount of people needed to phase is different, I think it's 15 below 50% phase it. Just make sure if you are assigned to "cat and mouse" him, you set your portal up appropriately and constantly update your gateway in case it despawns for others that will need it. SB off bats is awesome so enjoy that!

 

Siegecrafter: more mines, and lots more mines. This boss hasn't been downed by much so make sure as your guild is progressing on it, you pay really really really close attention to your character. Remember when I said being out of position can wipe the raid? Well this boss fucks you hard on it.

 

Paragons: from a normal stand point, this is largely similar to 10m, you might be able to pad immo damage on a nearby kuchun (spelling?) if you position right.

 

Garrosh: With the gear levels on your new guild they probably just dot the axe and focus more on Garrosh, when you have roughly 10 or so seconds from phase, nuke the axe low so you can SB onto Garrosh, it's easy if you are the only one focusing it. It's usually like that for my guild, but we only have 2 warlocks, and that's if the other shows up.

 

TL;DR Grats on the move to Horde, it's like buying a new car. Make sure you live. Ask questions if you don't know your particular assignment. I'm sure they'll understand your curosity switching from 10 to 25m. Good luck!

 

Btw, this is coming from 11/14H lock.

[Zagam 1,982]

Only thing to note: Snipers won't ever focus a Warlock.  They always focus healers.  If the Sniper focuses on you, it's already a wipe.

[Kazistrasz 216]

You guys are the most helpful ever! Thanks so much.

[Calol 5]

I love 25man the only problem is it requires more people to be competent. I've been tempted to switch servers and find a guild doing heroic as we tried Immers yesterday and couldn't even do him because my guild is retarded and likes to stand in shit and get hit by swirl.

[PhilColins 9]

Only thing to note: Snipers won't ever focus a Warlock.  They always focus healers.  If the Sniper focuses on you, it's already a wipe.

Are you certain of this? I can remember at least two times where I have been focused and no wipes were taking place.

[Zagam 1,982]

Then your healers were dickbags and Faded or used Divine Shield.  Snipers ONLY target healers.  If the Sniper was aimed at you, it's because your healer was pointing him at you.  Assassins target ranged DPS only and Snipers target healers.

 

Dungeon Journal says 'non-tank target' but I've always seen it fixate on a healer.  I guess I could be proven wrong, but I personally have never been fixated on by a Sniper, and the number of times I did that in ten man seem incredibly unlikely.  Every time I targetted them to kill them, they were pointed towards a healer.

[Belloc 6]

My 25-man logs from last night agree. 3 pulls,  every hunter's mark on every pull is on a healer.