Balance Druid 8.3

[Bora 8]

1 hour ago, KrayKaz said:

Sorry, newbie Druid here. Did a test trial on one for BFA and really liked it so I am going to run one for a while.

Anyway, question. From the guide:

My question is, why would not want to stat Versatility over Crit Strike (or, how does Crit Strike = Vers)? I am not a numbers guy by any means as I am a super casual player (but trying to learn more), but from what the stat's description depicts, Versatility does the increase of dam / healing dealt, and decrease of dam taken (by a percentage for each). Whereas, crit strike only has a "chance for extra effectiveness".

Hey so the Stat priority is more Int>Haste>Crit>=Vers>Mastery. Critical Strike, for many damage dealing classes is normally equal to or higher than Versatility. Yes, Versatility provides small damage increases and damage taken decreases but your comparing it to giving a spell a higher chance to deal double damage. You could even consider it like this, your Critical Strike stat is just a chance for that cast to have been affected by 100% versatility.

Critical Strike can lose value compared to Versatility when it gets high enough via stacking the secondary stat on gear or from effects that increase the Critical Strike chance of certain abilities.

[KrayKaz 0]

Ok, I think I see what you are saying. So next question - is there a target Crit Strike score to get to? Or is this one of those, just go as high as you can with whatever gear you roll?

[Bora 8]

Haste and Crit are both very good. Haste moreso than Crit. Just gear up the best you can focusing on Haste heavy, Crit/Vers pieces. Mastery is pretty bad so avoid that as much as you can. That being said you dont just get rid of high item level Mastery gear as it could still be an upgrade.

[Guest LETS TALK ABOUT THAT]

SOME ONE CAN TELL ME WHICH IS GOING TO BE THE CAP OF HASTE? 30%? AND THEN CRITAL TO 45% SOME ONE CAN TELL ME THAT PLS 

[Guest Noobkin]

hello Bora, do you intend to write an Balance pvp guide ?

best reagrards,

noobkin

[Bora 8]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:10 PM, Guest LETS TALK ABOUT THAT said:

SOME ONE CAN TELL ME WHICH IS GOING TO BE THE CAP OF HASTE? 30%? AND THEN CRITAL TO 45% SOME ONE CAN TELL ME THAT PLS 

There is no such thing as a cap with the current iteration of Balance Druid. Simming upgrades and finding stat weights is the current best way to gear.

 

 

21 hours ago, Guest Noobkin said:

hello Bora, do you intend to write an Balance pvp guide ?

best reagrards,

noobkin

I am not proficient in how Balance Druid PvP works. I can ask around and do some research and possibly whip something up but no promises at this current time.  Most of my focus is going to be put into the PvE aspect of the class.

[Guest Magik]

can someone explain how mastery is a "dead stat"? starsurge/moonfire/sunfire damage is useless? 

[Bora 8]

5 hours ago, Guest Magik said:

can someone explain how mastery is a "dead stat"? starsurge/moonfire/sunfire damage is useless? 

So the issue with Mastery at the moment is that it has a 50% effectiveness tied to Starsurge and Solar Wrath, it also got its base amount reduced, and its scaling reduced. Its not dead but you have to compare 1 point of Versatility which gives you 1% damage to 1% Mastery which gives only .5% damage to some spells and 1% to others. Not dead but not good.

[Guest Thebabu]

Is it possible to put a link of SIM of all the traits, so we have an idea about the remaining traits like, i got a piece that had ruinous bolt, i know i can SIM it but it looks that someone already has but the results are not in the guide.

[Bora 8]

12 hours ago, Guest Thebabu said:

Is it possible to put a link of SIM of all the traits, so we have an idea about the remaining traits like, i got a piece that had ruinous bolt, i know i can SIM it but it looks that someone already has but the results are not in the guide.

At the top of the Azerite page is a link to chicken.db which is the best resource for quick Balance Druid trinket and gear comparisons. I can look to getting a full list of t1s and t2s in for single and multi-target as well in the coming week.

[Guest Majur]

Hello, Am i the only one whos not accepting these stats ? Cuz i prefer more likely 1.Int 2.Master. 3.Crit 4. Haste 5. Vers .

Also I´m playing a talents -> Nature´s Balance , Incarnation, Twin moon and New moon and I´m doing  on a single target about 10k average . Can your guide increase my dps ? Thanks for answer ?

[Bora 8]

4 hours ago, Guest Majur said:

Hello, Am i the only one whos not accepting these stats ? Cuz i prefer more likely 1.Int 2.Master. 3.Crit 4. Haste 5. Vers .

Also I´m playing a talents -> Nature´s Balance , Incarnation, Twin moon and New moon and I´m doing  on a single target about 10k average . Can your guide increase my dps ? Thanks for answer ?

If those stats sim well for you that is fine. Stats are good on a per player basis and it is not static. However based on your assumption of your stat weights and the order you have them in you either have almost 0 Mastery or way too much Haste and Versatility. If you are assuming your stat weights without assistance of Raidbots, I would suggest trying it out and you may see stats more similar to what I have posted.

Unfortunately, Mastery is a very bad stat after the nerfs received to the stat during the beta. Those nerfs affected Mastery scaling, base Mastery, and how Mastery interacts with Solar Wrath and Starsurge.

As far as talents are concerned, you can basically run whatever you would like as there are only small differences in each talent row. The only mandatory talent would be Twin Moons for multi-target fights/trash packs. I do not know under which context your DPS is where it is at so I can not easily tell you if it will be an increase. For the level 15 row, Force of Nature would be a damage increase over Nature's Balance is the only definitive thing I can say. On short fights, New Moon could be good but once we get into Mythic+ length boss fights or even raid bosses, New Moon in its current iteration will fall off in terms of damage and Shooting Stars will be better for 1-2 targets over a longer duration.

I do hope you give the guide another look as I believe it could help you. I regularly update it and it is rarely out of date. I believe it could help you if given a chance.

[Guest Limelights]

In the 3+ target rotation section of the guide, you say to cast Starfall first and then get the DoT's out. But in the Common Mistakes section you say the opposite: to not rush out Starfall, and DoT first, because it got nerfed in BFA.

Which is best?

[jinsu2301 273]

1 hour ago, Guest Limelights said:

In the 3+ target rotation section of the guide, you say to cast Starfall first and then get the DoT's out. But in the Common Mistakes section you say the opposite: to not rush out Starfall, and DoT first, because it got nerfed in BFA.

Which is best?

It depends of how clumped up the targets are. The longer it takes to apply all your dots, the better it is to get a Starfall out before dotting. If you can get everything dotted with one Sunfire and two or three Moonfires and you aren't about to be capped on AP, you obviously go for dots first.

It's also worth noting that usually you don't enter a fight being able to cast Starfall right of the bat unless you go with Nature's Balance. So it really is a question of managing AP vs reapplying dots, both of which have enough leeway to a point where it doesn't matter which one you do first in a sustained fight.

[Bora 8]

On 10/1/2018 at 5:37 AM, Guest Limelights said:

In the 3+ target rotation section of the guide, you say to cast Starfall first and then get the DoT's out. But in the Common Mistakes section you say the opposite: to not rush out Starfall, and DoT first, because it got nerfed in BFA.

 Which is best?

So when the pack is short lived, you want to focus on getting guaranteed damage out first. Normally starting with Sunfire > Starfall assuming you have the Astral Power. If you do not, you can either Moonfire the whole pack (medium length pack) or spam Lunar Strike (clumped) or Solar Wrath (spread) to generate Astral Power for a quick Starfall. 

If the pack is split up, you want to lead with Moonfire until they are clumped up enough for a Sunfire. If you have the Astral Power, you can lead with a Starfall then Moonfire. The only time sequencing becomes a problem is at the beginning of a pack. You have to take into consideration your current Astral Power value, where the mobs are, etc.

Expect updates this weekend sorry for the delay, progress calls.

[Guest Bare]

So with 8.1, most people are suggesting a balance of haste and mastery (with as little vers and crit as possible).  I see many of the top druids slightly leaning towards mastery.

Bora, any thoughts about this?

[Bora 8]

On 2/1/2019 at 8:35 PM, Guest Bare said:

So with 8.1, most people are suggesting a balance of haste and mastery (with as little vers and crit as possible).  I see many of the top druids slightly leaning towards mastery.

Bora, any thoughts about this?

Sorry for the late reply, its been a while. Haste and Mastery are indeed super close in value to each other and tend to just be taken wherever possible. Generally, most players will still gem and enchant Haste, and balance their gear (where they can) to offset those gems and keep their stat priorities relatively close to each other.

Most of the time, running a few gear sets or gem/enchant sets through top gear on Raidbots.com yields the results people want. Simming a single target set is reliable as we share the same sort of basic stat priority for both single and multiple targets. Generally this is what high end players do when selecting their gear, they use stat weights to determine if an item could be useful, and then Top gear or Gear compare to determine if it actually is useful.

[Dachengshi 0]

Was wondering if there was going to be an update to this guide for 8.1.5 or 8.2 since that's around the corner.

When I looked at some of the talent choices and the reason for taking them, they included old talents which involved the moon phases (not current).

I'm a new boomy tho I've been playing since Vanilla. Never could get the hang of it, but I'm trying...again...and I'm really liking BfA Boomy. That said, trying to read up on talents and rotations seems to be a bit hit and miss.

Looking forward to any update at least for the talents, but hopefully for the rotations as well.

[Bora 8]

Hey, Dachengshi! The guide is actually up-to-date for both talent & rotation, but I did go back and check just to be sure. The rest of the guide is up-to-date as well. New Moon is a talent that exists for Balance Druids and sees very little if any use. Shooting Stars and Fury of Elune are both superior in their optimal situations and New Moon just does not fit. 

As for rotations, 8.1.5 only changed the Starfall target threshold chart (which is updated). 

[Guest Villainis]

Thanks for the insights, good stuff

 

[Bora 8]

22 hours ago, Guest Villainis said:

Thanks for the insights, good stuff

 

My pleasure!

[Rolas 1]

On 4/11/2019 at 12:31 AM, Bora said:

Hey, Dachengshi! The guide is actually up-to-date for both talent & rotation, but I did go back and check just to be sure. The rest of the guide is up-to-date as well. New Moon is a talent that exists for Balance Druids and sees very little if any use. Shooting Stars and Fury of Elune are both superior in their optimal situations and New Moon just does not fit. 

As for rotations, 8.1.5 only changed the Starfall target threshold chart (which is updated). 

Please re-check the "Easy Mode" page.  Celestial Alignment is mentioned as the level 75 recommended talent.  Celestial Alignment is a baseline cooldown, not a talent, correct?

[Bora 8]

On 5/17/2019 at 11:58 AM, Rolas said:

Please re-check the "Easy Mode" page.  Celestial Alignment is mentioned as the level 75 recommended talent.  Celestial Alignment is a baseline cooldown, not a talent, correct?

Thanks for the catch. Fix in progress.

[Nicthecat 1]

Just for clarification, in the Starfall section under Rotation, it has a nice set of conditions for when you ought to use starfall in AoE. However, I'm confused as to the phrasing of the conditions. When I see this: "7 Targets -> Cast SF unless you have AP & 3 Strs", does this imply that I should not be using Starfall to AoE 7 targets if I have at least one Pulsar and 3 Streaking Stars traits? Or does it refer to current charges of Pulsar that I have as a buff, referring to me being close enough to triggering the Pulsar effect that it's better than AoE. It just seems strange to me that even on 7 targets, it's not worth it to cast Starfall. Does this change depending on how long the 7 targets are alive? Is this assuming, again, that it's only worth it if I am close to triggering Celestial alignment via Pulsar or just that it's not worth using Starfall because I could be getting Pulsar charges stacking for the next trash pack. It just seems to me that the way I'm currently reading this chart, being someone who has a Pulsar trait and three Streaking Stars, I should never be casting Starfall in a M+ under any circumstance except maybe during a Bwonsamdi Reaping.

[Bora 8]

On 5/29/2019 at 4:05 PM, Nicthecat said:

Just for clarification, in the Starfall section under Rotation, it has a nice set of conditions for when you ought to use starfall in AoE. However, I'm confused as to the phrasing of the conditions. When I see this: "7 Targets -> Cast SF unless you have AP & 3 Strs", does this imply that I should not be using Starfall to AoE 7 targets if I have at least one Pulsar and 3 Streaking Stars traits? Or does it refer to current charges of Pulsar that I have as a buff, referring to me being close enough to triggering the Pulsar effect that it's better than AoE. It just seems strange to me that even on 7 targets, it's not worth it to cast Starfall. Does this change depending on how long the 7 targets are alive? Is this assuming, again, that it's only worth it if I am close to triggering Celestial alignment via Pulsar or just that it's not worth using Starfall because I could be getting Pulsar charges stacking for the next trash pack. It just seems to me that the way I'm currently reading this chart, being someone who has a Pulsar trait and three Streaking Stars, I should never be casting Starfall in a M+ under any circumstance except maybe during a Bwonsamdi Reaping.

Sorry for the late response. It is the first one. These assumptions are made Assuming you have the trait Arcanic Pulsar. Arcanic Pulsar only benefits from using Starsurge making Starfall a much worse option. Generally you are only Starfalling at 7 targets if they live for a decent amount of time (so not in low keys) and there is no priority target or on reaping waves.

Starfall is just in a very poor position overall so instead of AoEing in keys, we cleave off priority targets and bring a large amount of utility and single target. In raids, we have not used Starfall since Uldir (Zekvoz/Mythrax) and based on some preliminary testing, does not look like we will be using Starfall in The Eternal Palace (8.2 raid).