Feral Druid 8.3

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Feral Druid guide.

[foosmith 1]

Hello! Thank you for the guide! Swipe is not a feral ability anymore and the guide needs a quick update in spell summary and rotation, cooldowns and abilities sections.

Edited July 19, 2018 by foosmith
Thrash replaces swipe.

[wordup 37]

3 hours ago, foosmith said:

Hello! Thank you for the guide! Swipe is not a feral ability anymore and the guide needs a quick update in spell summary and rotation, cooldowns and abilities sections.

Not 100% what you mean by the edit, but Thrash and Swipe are both in the kit, but Swipe gets replaced by Brutal Slash if you have it talented which might be causing it.

[belgaer 4]

I belive there is an error in talent build, if it states that Jagged Wounds is recomended in all situation shouldn't it has a green "checked" icon, and since Incarnation only "can be useful" - should have yellow "question mark" icon? 

[Valks 2,375]

5 hours ago, belgaer said:

I belive there is an error in talent build, if it states that Jagged Wounds is recomended in all situation shouldn't it has a green "checked" icon, and since Incarnation only "can be useful" - should have yellow "question mark" icon? 

That's a mistake on the marking, you are correct. Thank you!

[Guest Pyodor]

Why is sabertooth not recommended? It ALWAYS refreshes the duration on rip, increases damage on Ferocious bite with 20% and DOES NOT reduce the overall damage output on your rip applied on target, That means i can have Jagged wounds for the 20% reduced duration and bloodtalons AND tigers fury up when i apply the first rip and it will remain buffed with all the above for the entire fight?!

[ArusVicious 156]

@wordup, simming myself, I'm seeing the Sabertooth talent climbing ahead of SR for me, even in ST situations. I don't know if other people are also experiencing that, but do you think it might be a viable talent now?

[wordup 37]

23 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

@wordup, simming myself, I'm seeing the Sabertooth talent climbing ahead of SR for me, even in ST situations. I don't know if other people are also experiencing that, but do you think it might be a viable talent now?

I'm looking into it right now since I've seen the trend, but have been swamped getting the Azerite traits updated with the recent changes. I suspect it's possible, though I also think the APL is undergoing some work on Raidbots so it remains to be seen - I'll keep you updated.

EDIT: With some more research on it, the APL is coming closer and it seems that at lower gear levels, Sabertooth is easier to maintain and will outdo Savage Roar on pure single target situations, with some gain on 2 targets to maintain double Rip. Savage Roar progressively outscales with higher item level (from preliminary looks atm), and is also better if there's a hybrid damage fight (that involves some cleave in between the single target sections).

Guide will be updated to note this for players, thanks for pointing it out ?

[ArusVicious 156]

1 hour ago, wordup said:

I'm looking into it right now since I've seen the trend, but have been swamped getting the Azerite traits updated with the recent changes. I suspect it's possible, though I also think the APL is undergoing some work on Raidbots so it remains to be seen - I'll keep you updated.

EDIT: With some more research on it, the APL is coming closer and it seems that at lower gear levels, Sabertooth is easier to maintain and will outdo Savage Roar on pure single target situations, with some gain on 2 targets to maintain double Rip. Savage Roar progressively outscales with higher item level (from preliminary looks atm), and is also better if there's a hybrid damage fight (that involves some cleave in between the single target sections).

Guide will be updated to note this for players, thanks for pointing it out ?

Ah, that might very well explain it. I took a break since July and came back about a week ago, so my power is likely not as high as players who were active in Heroic/Mythic raiding when I was gone. I must admit, I'm not mad about SR being the more dominant talent, as I personally kind of like it. But I cried when I saw that BT was the dominant talent again. I, and so many other people, despise it ?

Thanks for the reply though, and I can't wait for the azerite guide to be updated! ?

[Wyr3d 0]

Regarding the stat priorities, I think you mean "Mastery, then Versatility." You have "Mastery, then Mastery" ?

Edited August 13, 2018 by Wyr3d

[wordup 37]

1 hour ago, Wyr3d said:

Regarding the stat priorities, I think you mean "Mastery, then Versatility." You have "Mastery, then Mastery" ?

Thanks for catching will be fixed asap

[Guest Norbuf]

The WIld Fleshrending Trait in the outer ring is mising in the simulations ^^

[wordup 37]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:24 PM, Guest Norbuf said:

The WIld Fleshrending Trait in the outer ring is mising in the simulations ^^

It will be included when AoE sims are added to the page which I have in hand, it's just not got an APL line that is triggering it currently due to it being lower value to maintain than using the regular rotaton.

[Guest Random]

Hello everyone, I've been playing feral druid at high level for a while, yet I don't get that stat rotation for our spec. As of Bfa out, not only prepatch, is Haste still to be seen as the second dominant stat ? I can't help despising it.

[ArusVicious 156]

7 hours ago, Guest Random said:

Hello everyone, I've been playing feral druid at high level for a while, yet I don't get that stat rotation for our spec. As of Bfa out, not only prepatch, is Haste still to be seen as the second dominant stat ? I can't help despising it.

In most scenarios, I've found haste to be the most dominant stat, often simming even higher than Agility. As of right now, I'd focus on getting as much haste as you can, followed by crit. 

Also, @wordup, haste currently looks like, for most people, it's above Agility in terms of strength. Almost all sims currently say so and the stat priority list doesn't really seem to reflect that. Is this a result of low gear levels? I'm not sure because Feral's stats usually keep the same weights no matter how much you have.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Maxkitty

[wordup 37]

23 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

In most scenarios, I've found haste to be the most dominant stat, often simming even higher than Agility. As of right now, I'd focus on getting as much haste as you can, followed by crit. 

Also, @wordup, haste currently looks like, for most people, it's above Agility in terms of strength. Almost all sims currently say so and the stat priority list doesn't really seem to reflect that. Is this a result of low gear levels? I'm not sure because Feral's stats usually keep the same weights no matter how much you have.

Tentatively speaking Haste has a good chance of outdoing Agility pending the build you're using and it's likely to increase as gear goes up. Haste was put below Agility predominantly because some aspects of the sims were slightly inconsistent when I was prepping the page for launch, and given they only compete based on what gem you would put in (usually), it's been left there. I'll definitely go back and double check that though now that there's more data coming in from live launch.

[ArusVicious 156]

10 hours ago, wordup said:

Tentatively speaking Haste has a good chance of outdoing Agility pending the build you're using and it's likely to increase as gear goes up. Haste was put below Agility predominantly because some aspects of the sims were slightly inconsistent when I was prepping the page for launch, and given they only compete based on what gem you would put in (usually), it's been left there. I'll definitely go back and double check that though now that there's more data coming in from live launch.

I'm using the usual ST build; JW/SR/BT. I guess considering that haste scales with bleeds now that might also make it an extremely impactful stat for that build. It also increases your auto attack damage, which does a ton of damage right now, and helps bring our incredibly crappy energy regen to levels where you can keep your bleeds up AND use FB too. I guess it's a time will tell thing, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see Haste reign supreme as the ultimate stat for Feral. 

[Guest Greeneggs]

Looks like Retaliatory Fury is missing from the Outer Tier list. Thanks.

[coyohti 0]

On the entry for Ferocious Bite it reads...

"Ferocious Bite is the other Feral finisher alongside Rip Icon Rip, dealing high Physical damage for 25 Energy, and consuming up to 5 Combo Points. It can also consume up to another 25 Energy to deal 100% extra damage, and if used on targets below 25% health, will refresh your Rip effect to its full duration. This is used rarely due to be it being expensive, and impacting your rotation if misused. Under 25% health, however, this completely replaces Rip as it refreshes it, and forms a pseudo-Execute window for Feral. "

However, my tooltip in-game just says that it will refresh Rip with no mention of the target needing to be below 25% health. Has this been changed or is there something else that would affect the "rules" of Ferocious Bite?

[Guest Specialka]

12 hours ago, coyohti said:

On the entry for Ferocious Bite it reads...

"Ferocious Bite is the other Feral finisher alongside Rip Icon Rip, dealing high Physical damage for 25 Energy, and consuming up to 5 Combo Points. It can also consume up to another 25 Energy to deal 100% extra damage, and if used on targets below 25% health, will refresh your Rip effect to its full duration. This is used rarely due to be it being expensive, and impacting your rotation if misused. Under 25% health, however, this completely replaces Rip as it refreshes it, and forms a pseudo-Execute window for Feral. "

However, my tooltip in-game just says that it will refresh Rip with no mention of the target needing to be below 25% health. Has this been changed or is there something else that would affect the "rules" of Ferocious Bite?

You have Sabertooth talented.

[Kizoja 0]

If I'm not mistaken, the AoE section is incorrect in saying Thrash has the highest priority at a minimum of 4 long duration adds. I believe the correct minimum would be at least 5 targets.

What I have to back it up is Thrash on my Druid is 2553 damage total. This is 56.73 damage per energy spent.

Rake on my druid is 8248 damage total. 235.66 damage per energy spent.

For Thrash to have priority over Rake you would need at least 5 targets as Thrash's damage per energy spent at 4 targets becomes 226.92. At 5 targets it becomes 283.65 making it higher priority than Rake outside of Clearcasting.

Am I correct in this or is there something I'm missing?

[wordup 37]

On 8/24/2018 at 9:49 PM, Kizoja said:

If I'm not mistaken, the AoE section is incorrect in saying Thrash has the highest priority at a minimum of 4 long duration adds. I believe the correct minimum would be at least 5 targets.

What I have to back it up is Thrash on my Druid is 2553 damage total. This is 56.73 damage per energy spent.

Rake on my druid is 8248 damage total. 235.66 damage per energy spent.

For Thrash to have priority over Rake you would need at least 5 targets as Thrash's damage per energy spent at 4 targets becomes 226.92. At 5 targets it becomes 283.65 making it higher priority than Rake outside of Clearcasting.

Am I correct in this or is there something I'm missing?

You are correct in circumstances where you aren't using Swipe (which needs Thrash for the % increase activator).

I tend to avoid using raw tooltips because some things aren't always entirely accurate, but using AP ratios your math checks out on this:

Thrash = 30.14% AP per target - 0.6028% PE

Rake = 96.03% AP - 2.74% PE

So that does indicate the breakpoint is at 5 rather than 4. I'll amend that, thanks for the post ?

[Kizoja 0]

9 hours ago, wordup said:

You are correct in circumstances where you aren't using Swipe (which needs Thrash for the % increase activator).

Ah, that makes sense. I've had brutal slash equipped so much that I forgot that swipe has the bonus to bleeding targets. That seems to be what I was missing. Thanks.

[Archimage 98]

Apex Predator is from the T21-4P, should revise the rotation for 120 characters?

[wordup 37]

On 8/26/2018 at 10:53 PM, Archimage said:

Apex Predator is from the T21-4P, should revise the rotation for 120 characters?

That note shouldn't be there, thanks for catching!