Beast Mastery Hunter 8.3

[Guest Tukalz]

How sure are you that the talents here are correct? Getting into bestial wrath is so important and Barbed shot reduces the cool down of it, so that essentially makes talents based and rotated around barbed shot really good. I've done a lot of damage testing on beta, and i'm pulling considerably ahead with another build that does not involve Chimera Shot, as what if the fight is single target? Getting more procs and reducing the cooldown of wrath has got to be better. Another factor is, if you are spending procs with one with the pack then thrill of the hunt seems very good. I'm not saying your post is incorrect but everything I've gone with the suggested build im like at least 2.0 less on dps than one with the pack and thrill of the hunt. 

[Azortharion 60]

We are able to use simulation tools to accurately simulate in-game mechanics, behaviour and gameplay. It is through popular tools like these that we can very accurately quantify which talents are more competitive, although of course the accuracy of these evaluations depend on the accuracy of the tool itself, which is thoroughly tested and compared to actual in-game numbers.

There is no reason to believe anything but Chimaera Shot is the best choice for BM in any realistic scenario.

[Guest Woltan]

Thanks for the great guides.

Im unsure where to place Dire Beast in my opener.

should i place it as per the single target priority system, or "right before Bestial Wrath", as explained in the Detailed something-something..?

or somewhere else entirely?

 

[Valks 2,375]

56 minutes ago, Guest Woltan said:

Thanks for the great guides.

Im unsure where to place Dire Beast in my opener.

should i place it as per the single target priority system, or "right before Bestial Wrath", as explained in the Detailed something-something..?

or somewhere else entirely?

From Azor:

Quote

You would put it after Kill Command because it has a longer cooldown than it, and it also generates Focus, which means that you would not want to put it before KC, as any Focus you generate until KC has been cast is then wasted.

This should fix your problem with the opener.

[Guest Woltan]

Thank you very much.

[Guest Woltan]

26 minutes ago, Blainie said:

From Azor:

This should fix your problem with the opener.

Hmm I'm a little confused. Dire Beast does not generate focus, does it? It costs focus. 25 focus.

Am i misunderstanding something, or are you thinking about the old Dire Beast?

regardless, should i still put it before KC (I'm assuming its the first KC) in my opener?

[Guest Woltan]

Ok i was rambling a bit there.

but the question still stands.

i was thinking maybe you mean the bit of extra passive focus generation from having 5% more haste, but surely thats not what you mean..?

[Ishootthings 0]

I have a few questions. Firstly you write following: 

1. Cast  Cobra Shot when there is nothing else to do, when you have a lot of Focus to burn, and when  Kill Command is not coming off cooldown within 2.5 seconds.

I am a bit puzzled as to why I have to stop at 2.5 seconds before the KC CD comes off with casting CS. I meaning even condsidering the 1 second CD reduction of KC and the global CD I feel I can cast my last Cobra Shot later. Many times I see my self casting a cobra shot, getting under the 2.5 second marker and then just sitting around for the 2.X seconds till I cast KC. Are you certain about the 2.5 second limit and if so, do you have an explanation? Furthermore I see my self focus-capping from time to time when this happens, in my experience I am able to cast 2 Cobra shots before a kill command, if I do not have any other abilities available and if the Frenzy stacks was recently refreshed. (This is in a single target scenario btw)

Secondly I for one have a very low crit chance (around 13%, just returning to wow so my ill is merely 208.), thereby greatly decreasing my number of WC procs for my barbed shot, this is making my Frenzy stacks drop off even if I wait untill the very last micro second with refreshing (which it is bound to sooner or later with out a proc since the CD for Barbed Shot is +9 seconds and the duration of the Frenzy buff is 8 seconds). My question is then, will 'one with the pack' not be the better choice over Chimera Shot, in a scenario where u are unable to keep up the 3 Frenzy stacks? I have experimented a bit and even with 'One With The Pack' I am not getting enough procs to maintain the stacks.

 

[Azortharion 60]

Base GCD (with no Haste) is 1.5 seconds.

Cobra Shot reduces the CD by 1 second, this adds up to 2.5 seconds. Of course, most people don't have literally zero Haste, but it is better to be safe than sorry.

The basic reasoning is that if you are not about to Focus cap, there is nothing to gain by casting Cobra Shot now. You might as well wait until it won't interfere with casting Kill Command directly on CD in any way.

Not focus capping is a higher priority than this, however. If you are going to Focus cap from following this rule, then break it. 

One With The Pack benefits from a HIGH Critical Strike chance. Having a low crit chance is just gonna make it even worse.

It is a multiplier on your chance to get a Barbed Shot reset which is dependent on crits. A lower crit% is literally just gonna make the talent less efficient at what it does.

[Azortharion 60]

5 hours ago, Guest Woltan said:

Ok i was rambling a bit there.

but the question still stands.

i was thinking maybe you mean the bit of extra passive focus generation from having 5% more haste, but surely thats not what you mean..?

It was a bad reply from me, I apologize.

You should still cast it after KC, simply due to its cooldown being longer, which is usually the first thing you look at when deciding a spell priority. Chimaera Shot is a bit different, as it generates Focus which has a lot of value in addition to the damage it does.

[Kaelath 0]

So as i'm sitting here in stormwind I came to a realization that our BiS legendaries for our leveling run from 110-116 will be Qa'pla Eredun War Order and The Apex Predator's Claw for maximized pet survival and damage while questing especially if you're running war mode and doing mass group pulls. I started using them together in mythic soloing and the combo's doing me pretty well.

[Guest Woltan]

8 hours ago, Azortharion said:

It was a bad reply from me, I apologize.

You should still cast it after KC, simply due to its cooldown being longer, which is usually the first thing you look at when deciding a spell priority. Chimaera Shot is a bit different, as it generates Focus which has a lot of value in addition to the damage it does.

No worries:-)

Alright thanks for the replies, i really apprciate it.

(I'm assuming that by "..cast it after KC..", you mean that literally, as in RIGHT after KC. Or as in: "in between KC and Barbed Shot". Not as in "sometime after KC.")

[Ishootthings 0]

8 hours ago, Azortharion said:

One With The Pack benefits from a HIGH Critical Strike chance. Having a low crit chance is just gonna make it even worse.

It is a multiplier on your chance to get a Barbed Shot reset which is dependent on crits. A lower crit% is literally just gonna make the talent less efficient at what it does.

Thx for the quick reply, I will be sure to moderate my Cobra Shot window according to my haste.

I see your point on one with the pack, seeing as it is 40 % chance of ur AA crit. This however will make a fast bow/gun more desirable in BfA; faster attacksspeed = more AA = higher chance of crit = higher chance of a proc ?.

I hope with gear in BfA that we will be able to maintain our Frenzy stacks. ATM I find it impossible with the my current gear.

Titanstrike with its slow attacksspeed is not helping.

Let's say I have 13% crit and zero haste making Titanstrike its default 3.0 attacksspeed.

Then 100/13 × 3.0 = 23.07 sec (avg time between AA crits)

Masters Call has a 20% chance to give a proc off a AA crit

100/20 = 5 

5 × 23.07 = 115,38 sec ~ 1 min 55 sec.

So 1 min and 55 sec between procs in theory. I get what Blizzard is trying to do - which is not just making it another DoT you cam refresh when ever u want, but something you actually have to manage. However ATM it's just impossible to keep it up unless RN(G)Jesus is with you and gives you the procs just when you need them throughout the encounter. (Not sure if my calculations are correct, however it does not fall much off what I am experiencing on the target dummies).

 

 

[Faerni 0]

I sim alot with Raidbots, and for me Zevrim and Prydaz is highest. However I have thoughts about Sephyr:

Do anyone know if it simulate the haste increase of 25% when interrupting/trapping enemies? In dungeons you can have 25% increased haste for 10 sec every half minute which is a huge buff and would in that case be better than Prydaz. 

So, does anyone know if it sims like that or if you CAN make is sim with the 25% buff?

 

BR Faerni

[Guest Sheyjal]

On 7/21/2018 at 5:51 AM, Blainie said:

I mean, it's a straight 2% drop for me in sims to use Animal Companion compared to KI. Even if we ignore sims or say they are wrong currently, you still have to deal with double pet AI - pet AI is completely awful currently and I really don't think it's worth the trouble.

So I have spent quite a bit of time testing this over the last few days.  Dummies.   LFR raid bosses.  Named mobs in the world.   In every case I am showing the damage from the Animal Companions Kill command to be equal to, or in most cases HIGHER THAN the kill command of your main pet.  This does not take into account the fact that the companion pet also melee's and stomps.  

I am having trouble understanding how a talent that provides a 50% boost to Kill Command when under 35% is better than a talent that is providing a 100%+ boost to it all the time, no matter the length of fight or health of the mob. 

In every case Im testing, Im seeing 10-15% damage improvement through companion, even considering the iffy AI on the second pet (which is admittedly slow to attack).   So please help me understand where I am missing this.  Maybe it is because of my lower gear level (sitting around 201 right now).

I understand that my skill and class knowledge is not on the level of a lot of people here, and I also realize that I am not running these tests on Heroic/Mythic levels which could be skewing results.  Really interested to hear feedback from others on this.

 

[Guest None]

Allot of times holding off on casting barbed shot until the frenzy buff is about to expire will cause you to have to delay Kill Command in order to keep the stacks of frenzy up.  Ive noticed on many occasions you guys are saying that Kill Command is a priority over everything. So should i let the Frenzy stacks drop in order to cast Kill Command immediately or is delaying Kill Command in order to cast Barbed shot better? I think i know the answer to this but im just curious to what you guys think is best.

[Ishootthings 0]

7 hours ago, Guest None said:

Allot of times holding off on casting barbed shot until the frenzy buff is about to expire will cause you to have to delay Kill Command in order to keep the stacks of frenzy up.  Ive noticed on many occasions you guys are saying that Kill Command is a priority over everything. So should i let the Frenzy stacks drop in order to cast Kill Command immediately or is delaying Kill Command in order to cast Barbed shot better? I think i know the answer to this but im just curious to what you guys think is best.

You should ALWAYS prioritize keeping up your 3 Frenzy stacks up and delay KC - the 90 % attack speed buff for your pet is just too can good, however I found that if you are really great at predicting or tracking how much your Cobra Shot decreases your CD on your KC, and don't just spam Cobra Shot you are able to line it up so that you will not have to delay KC that often. I use Weak Aura and I have made two progression bars, one that tracks the CD of KC with a drop to red when below 2,2 seconds (my limit for my last Cobra Shot with my haste) and I've made a progression bar that simply tracks the timer of the Frenzy buff on my pet. 

Another thing... remember that the Barbed Shot DoT stacks aswell, so if you are sitting in two stacks due to a proc you can refresh it early to make a double debuff of Barbed Shot for that sweet extra focus regen and DPS (the Frenzy stacks will ofc not stack any further than 3). 

I forgot to mention that furthermore Barbed Shot is also reducing your Bestial Wrath CD but a whole 12 seconds every time you use it! - so yeah like the guide says, never sit on 2 stacks. ?

Edited July 25, 2018 by Ishootthings

[Valks 2,375]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:46 AM, Faerni said:

So, does anyone know if it sims like that or if you CAN make is sim with the 25% buff?

Set the sim to casting Patchwerk and you'll get a Patch sim where he casts something you can interrupt constantly for the buff.

[Valks 2,375]

On 7/24/2018 at 8:50 PM, Guest Sheyjal said:

In every case Im testing, Im seeing 10-15% damage improvement through companion, even considering the iffy AI on the second pet (which is admittedly slow to attack).   So please help me understand where I am missing this.  Maybe it is because of my lower gear level (sitting around 201 right now).

I understand that my skill and class knowledge is not on the level of a lot of people here, and I also realize that I am not running these tests on Heroic/Mythic levels which could be skewing results.  Really interested to hear feedback from others on this.

Animal Companion, when selected, applies a -40% pet damage aura, which affects your main pet. This doesn't just apply to KC damage, but everything. Auto attacks, family spells, all of it. This is why the spells are so much closer than the tooltips suggest.

[Guest None]

14 hours ago, Ishootthings said:

You should ALWAYS prioritize keeping up your 3 Frenzy stacks up and delay KC - the 90 % attack speed buff for your pet is just too can good, however I found that if you are really great at predicting or tracking how much your Cobra Shot decreases your CD on your KC, and don't just spam Cobra Shot you are able to line it up so that you will not have to delay KC that often. I use Weak Aura and I have made two progression bars, one that tracks the CD of KC with a drop to red when below 2,2 seconds (my limit for my last Cobra Shot with my haste) and I've made a progression bar that simply tracks the timer of the Frenzy buff on my pet. 

Another thing... remember that the Barbed Shot DoT stacks aswell, so if you are sitting in two stacks due to a proc you can refresh it early to make a double debuff of Barbed Shot for that sweet extra focus regen and DPS (the Frenzy stacks will ofc not stack any further than 3). 

I forgot to mention that furthermore Barbed Shot is also reducing your Bestial Wrath CD but a whole 12 seconds every time you use it! - so yeah like the guide says, never sit on 2 stacks. ?

Thanks for the reply.  Thats whats i was thinking but i just wanted to make sure.  Seems like i run into this allot but im literally waiting until the very last second before im casting mine. Im not sure if its a crit/haste issue or what but I barely get procs. Especially compared to the amount i used to get before all these changes.

I guess i need to look into a weak aura for the stacks because the DBM timer almost completely covers the buff timer thats shown below my toon.

[Guest memphX]

Do you guys relize that your beast cleave triggers twice on both pet with animal companion ?

[Guest GuestGuy13]

On 7/26/2018 at 1:38 PM, Guest memphX said:

Do you guys relize that your beast cleave triggers twice on both pet with animal companion ?

Honestly, I'm with the people that don't understand why the 50% damage of KC on guys under 35% health is better than animal companion... I have been running animal companion with one with the pack.  The second companion doubles your kill command dmg, It also auto attacks, it stomps, it beast cleaves,  it frenzies with barb shot... That's gotta be more damage than just 50 KC under 50% in almost all situations. Something about this doesn't add up to me. 

[Azortharion 60]

The Animal Companion talent reduces all damage done by your pet by 40%, and then it copies that. This massive reduction in pet damage is what makes it an uncompetitive talent. In some situations it is actually a DPS loss to take the talent. 

[Guest kittybleu]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:04 AM, Faerni said:

Ok, so you mean if i write:

/cast Bestial Wrath
/cast Kill Command
/cast Claw(Basic Attack)
/cast Bite(Basic Attack)

…..pet will still claw and bite but Kill Command just wont go off?

I may be a bit late to the party, but I'll take an educated guess where you got confused: your pet's basic attacks have different names based on family but are actually the same thing- your pet will have Bite OR Claw OR Smack (not all 3) so this macro just saves you having to change names for abilities when you change pets. Only the one that your pet has will actually happen (ie, if you're using a cat, it will Claw) and the other 2 are effectively ignored. 

 

on a related note, does putting this macro into all your abilities mean you don't need to use /petattack to keep your pet on target?

[Bellapop 0]

do those macros even work?