Frost Mage 8.3

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Frost Mage guide.

[Guest Talaniel]

I would like to suggest adding "decursive" to your useful addons list.

Its a tidy, subtle interface that lets you see when someone is afflicted, and decurse them without having to target or focus them, with a signle click, heal-bot-style. I use to love it, and look forward to using it again!

[Guest pickledaisho]

pretty sure, if you have Ice Nova, you're supposed to use it over Ice Lance after Flurry if it's up. 

[Valks 2,375]

1 hour ago, Guest pickledaisho said:

pretty sure, if you have Ice Nova, you're supposed to use it over Ice Lance after Flurry if it's up. 

Ice Nova has no travel time, though, so (keep in mind, this depends on your distance from the target) you can Flurry -> Ice Lance -> Ice Nova and have both crit. If you Nova first, Lance will never, ever get there in time.

[Valks 2,375]

2 hours ago, Guest Talaniel said:

I would like to suggest adding "decursive" to your useful addons list.

Its a tidy, subtle interface that lets you see when someone is afflicted, and decurse them without having to target or focus them, with a signle click, heal-bot-style. I use to love it, and look forward to using it again!

Does it show anything extra that other raid frames wouldn't? Otherwise, you can do this with a mouseover macro - will look into getting it added if it does add something special over other RFs.

[Guest Thanyae]

Your talent suggestions are a bit wonky due to the fact that you didn't use the BfA Talent Calculator. Some Talents got a rework, some shifted in place and some others are totally new. Seems u forgot that and because of that your talent tier lists are simply wrong.

[Guest Thanyae]

Little addition. I'm speakin of the M+ Tips section. The PvE Talent Build is of course for BfA and totally fine.

[Valks 2,375]

3 hours ago, Guest Thanyae said:

Your talent suggestions are a bit wonky due to the fact that you didn't use the BfA Talent Calculator. Some Talents got a rework, some shifted in place and some others are totally new. Seems u forgot that and because of that your talent tier lists are simply wrong.

There's a large disclaimer stating that the page will not be updated for the pre-patch, so that's most likely why.

[blaakwater 0]

This guide is nearly unusable with regard to rotation and new talents, etc. Was there a different person who wrote this updated version? I'm just leveling up my first mage and before the pre-patch I was pretty evenly matched with NPCs near my same level. Trying to follow this new guide is getting me killed. A lot. LOL. Frustrating. 

Just noticed your disclaimer. How disappointing. Hunter and Pally guides were properly updated and very helpful. Oh well.

[Guest Dräxx]

Freezing Rain makes any  Blizzard casts in the 12(-->15) seconds following a  Frozen Orb cast instant, while increasing the damage of those instant Blizzards by 35%(-->50%).  

So that talent is far worse than it is actually in-game. Fix that sentence. 

[Valks 2,375]

3 hours ago, blaakwater said:

This guide is nearly unusable with regard to rotation and new talents, etc. Was there a different person who wrote this updated version? I'm just leveling up my first mage and before the pre-patch I was pretty evenly matched with NPCs near my same level. Trying to follow this new guide is getting me killed. A lot. LOL. Frustrating. 

Just noticed your disclaimer. How disappointing. Hunter and Pally guides were properly updated and very helpful. Oh well.

The guide is up-to-date, but the Mythic+ section is not. Everything else is up-to-date and working correctly, aside from very minor fixes that might be missing due to the ongoing hotfixes that are being put out by Blizzard.

[Valks 2,375]

2 hours ago, Guest Dräxx said:

Freezing Rain makes any  Blizzard casts in the 12(-->15) seconds following a  Frozen Orb cast instant, while increasing the damage of those instant Blizzards by 35%(-->50%).  

So that talent is far worse than it is actually in-game. Fix that sentence. 

I've let Kuni know, thanks!

[Guest Kudo]

" Soul of the Archmage is a ring that grants the talent  Frozen Touch passively. Given Frozen Touch is not too great, this ring sits solidly middle of the pack."

You did switch the talents and considered that FT is on equal terms with EB in the 60 row talents. Isn't this legendary improving then?

[Harvest 0]

I am confused.  On your talent build page your author says do NOT take Mirror Image but then on your suggested rotation page the author uses Mirror Image.  Which is it?   I know these are recommendations but for those of us who are new it would be nice to have matching recommends to get us going until we learn the class.

[BrightBrown 4]

While I have roughly the same percentage of Haste & Crit as before the pre-patch, Mastery went from 53% to 22%. I now notice that I VERY RARELY get any FoF procs... not so sure what is going on here, but I sure feel a whole lot weaker than before.

[Valks 2,375]

3 hours ago, Guest Kudo said:

" Soul of the Archmage is a ring that grants the talent  Frozen Touch passively. Given Frozen Touch is not too great, this ring sits solidly middle of the pack."

You did switch the talents and considered that FT is on equal terms with EB in the 60 row talents. Isn't this legendary improving then?

Asked Kuni to fix/comment on this, will let you know.

[Valks 2,375]

30 minutes ago, Harvest said:

I am confused.  On your talent build page your author says do NOT take Mirror Image but then on your suggested rotation page the author uses Mirror Image.  Which is it?   I know these are recommendations but for those of us who are new it would be nice to have matching recommends to get us going until we learn the class.

Sorry! This should read: Mirror Image, if taken. It's just there in case players do want to use it. I'll ask for a "if taken" clause to be added.

[Valks 2,375]

9 minutes ago, BrightBrown said:

While I have roughly the same percentage of Haste & Crit as before the pre-patch, Mastery went from 53% to 22%. I now notice that I VERY RARELY get any FoF procs... not so sure what is going on here, but I sure feel a whole lot weaker than before.

With the lack of relics adding to procs, things do feel a bit more "Frostbolty", but try using Frozen Touch on the level 60 tier. It might make things feel a bit better with procs and has almost exactly the same DPS as Ebonbolt does on that tier.

[CedarSpirit 0]

The guy that wrote the stat weights is obviously a clown.  Either take this seriously and be helpful or find something else that your good at, because this ain't it.  It's just a "cut and paste" job from 7.2.5...  Nice job putting some effort into a class you consider yourself an expert in.  "Maybe this is an alt for you".

[Micrologist 1]

I'm trying to figure out this whole Glacial Spike business. Not a huge fan of this kind of mechanic in general but I wanna give it a chance.

The guide says

Quote

 Flurry if you have  Brain Freeze, and

• after  Frostbolt if you are currently at 0-3 Icicles;

Let's assume I have 3 Icicles, a brainfreeze proc and I'm currently casting my "4th" Frostbolt. Do I use my Flurry after the Frostbolt or do I save it?

[Kuni 28]

10 hours ago, CedarSpirit said:

The guy that wrote the stat weights is obviously a clown.  Either take this seriously and be helpful or find something else that your good at, because this ain't it.  It's just a "cut and paste" job from 7.2.5...  Nice job putting some effort into a class you consider yourself an expert in.  "Maybe this is an alt for you".

Any given stat weights not based on your own character are a guideline at best, and outright wrong at worst. I have given a guideline for people in a situation where optimization is not needed or warranted. If any person is in such a position that optimization is warranted or desired, they should simulate the gear options available to them and forsake stat weights entirely. They only account for the addition of that one stat, not the cumulative effect of reducing some and adding others. If the desired outcome is to simply utilize Pawn, again, simulation of your own character is the only way that will work to any real degree of accuracy, and should be redone upon getting a new piece of gear.

 

25 minutes ago, Micrologist said:

Let's assume I have 3 Icicles, a brainfreeze proc and I'm currently casting my "4th" Frostbolt. Do I use my Flurry after the Frostbolt or do I save it?

Save, since you're at 4 when making the Brain Freeze decision. I'll push a clarification for that situation.

[Micrologist 1]

56 minutes ago, Kuni said:

Save, since you're at 4 when making the Brain Freeze decision. I'll push a clarification for that situation.

That's what I assumed but it wasn't 100% clear for me. Thank you very much!

[Valks 2,375]

17 hours ago, CedarSpirit said:

The guy that wrote the stat weights is obviously a clown.  Either take this seriously and be helpful or find something else that your good at, because this ain't it.  It's just a "cut and paste" job from 7.2.5...  Nice job putting some effort into a class you consider yourself an expert in.  "Maybe this is an alt for you".

I'd just like to add to what Kuni mentioned above to ask - What are you seeing that is wrong? 

With the current recommendations given by Kuni, I would make the following deductions:

• Intellect is far and away the best stat for us.
• Crit is good to a certain point. Once you start to get close to the Shatter cap, it falls in value pretty quickly. Kuni notes, rightly so, that this does not happen exactly at the cap and instead starts to happen earlier.
• Once you go over the 33.34% cap, Crit drops even more so in value, becoming completely undesirable when possible.
• Haste is our next best stat, but there comes a point where it will eventually be overtaken by Mastery, due to their relationship with one another. They will change constantly, due to the fact that having casts that are too fast means you sacrifice too much damage from Mastery, while having casts that are receiving too much damage from Mastery means you no longer cast fast enough. You have to strike a balance between them and find where they meet in a good ratio, depending on your gear.
• Versatility sits between Haste and Mastery as a solid damage stat, but the amount you will prioritise it depends on your Haste and Mastery levels. This will depend on how much of each you have currently. If you have far too much Mastery, Haste will likely be above Mastery and Vers. If you have far too much Haste, Mastery will be above Vers and Haste.
• Above all of this, at least in importance (and in the guide, since it is written there in bold): the priority is extremely basic, will be inaccurate for many players, but it is there nonetheless for those players that do not want to sim themselves. It is, in the simplest terms, a stat priority for players to use; the text around it is there specifically to help players understand that it is not a perfect model.

Now, let's compare this to a real example:

My personal sim on RaidBots shows this, as of 20/07/2018.

• My gear puts me just under the Crit cap, but Crit is a very low weight. I use the Acrid trinket, meaning it puts me over cap, so the weight is extremely low compared to not using it. When I use another trinket, my Crit weight jumps up to a higher spot (just under Vers at 2.17) due to being under the cap.
• My gear is fairly balanced for Haste vs. Mastery, but it has more Haste, meaning Mastery is above it in weights.
• My gear is very low in Versatility, meaning it is my top secondary stat, mainly because I am very unlucky with the pieces I receive from M+ and raiding.
• Intellect is still, as suggested by Kuni, still very much my top stat, even at 249 item level.

This is exactly what I would expect after reading Kuni's guide.

Your comment is completely unfair to the writer and the guide itself. I see no reason to give a warning to your account, since this is a feedback thread, but I am perfectly content to do so if you continue down the same vein of discussion. We appreciate all feedback, whether it is good or bad, since it allows us to better the guides, but it is unacceptable to insult the writers that put their time into creating these guides. Critique their work, point out what is wrong, but leave the writers out of your shot-taking.

[Guest TheRuin]

I’m also struggling with the proper understanding of icicles and BF when using Glacial Spike.

From what I see, and correct me if I’m wrong but it reads like this:

After casting a Frostbolt and getting a third icicle along with a Brainfreeze proc, it is better to save the proc and get the five icicles to guarantee a Shatter.

So if you get your proc on your third icicle, then cast two Frostbolts to get the Spike requirement, all the while saving the BF proc. Is that accurate?

 

Also, sometimes, even though the combo is the same, on a dummy it seems like my Flurry doesn’t set up for the Spike to shatter. Is this a distance/travel issue?

[Guest Greysmith]

Dear fellow Frost mage,

I've noticed how in rotation you've put brain freeze proc above fingers of frost proc. Is there any reason for this?

As I figure and always have done has been shoot out the procced ice lances, as not to waste one of them on an already guaranteed shatter ice lance /after/ the brain freeze flurry.

Am I missing something?