Outlaw Rogue 8.3

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Outlaw Rogue guide.

[Guest Logari]

Hi,
Just looking to clarify on the guide under Talents & Builds "Vigor" is recommended now due to the changes, however under BIS items the soul of the shadowblade is saying Vigor is the weakest talent option.

Have the legendaries been updated to account for the new changes?

 

[bitflux 3]

6 hours ago, Guest Logari said:

Hi,
Just looking to clarify on the guide under Talents & Builds "Vigor" is recommended now due to the changes, however under BIS items the soul of the shadowblade is saying Vigor is the weakest talent option.

Have the legendaries been updated to account for the new changes?

 

Sorry, this is updated just poor phrasing on my part, and i'll try to update it.

While vigor is the best talent choice in this row, by using soul ring, we need to compare it's gain not just between 3 talents but the value of the 2 remaining talents (DS/MfD) vs the bonus effects of other legendaries.

Currently that gain is not sufficient enough to use it over other legendaries given then chance.

But I agree, the wording is poor and i'll update it soon.

[Guest Anticope]

Why is grand melee so strong compared to 7.3.5 ?

[bitflux 3]

17 minutes ago, Guest Anticope said:

Why is grand melee so strong compared to 7.3.5 ?

Blizzard has re-tuned damage distribution, so now auto-attacks make up a much larger portion of your damage output.

This is also why Slice and  Dice has been nerfed (albeit it appears to have been over-nerfed).

Current approximate rankings of buffs (subject to change ofc) : 

 

[Guest Rogue1]

I was wondering if I should always be using Dispatch at 5 combo points? What if I get to 4 combo points? Sinister strike has a chance to generate 2 and Pistol Shot also generates 2 with Quick Draw.

[bitflux 3]

21 minutes ago, Guest Rogue1 said:

I was wondering if I should always be using Dispatch at 5 combo points? What if I get to 4 combo points? Sinister strike has a chance to generate 2 and Pistol Shot also generates 2 with Quick Draw.

You want to finish at 5 unless you have Broadside of Opportunity proc (with quick draw).

[Guest Rogue1]

12 hours ago, bitflux said:

You want to finish at 5 unless you have Broadside of Opportunity proc (with quick draw).

So even with Sinister possibly generating 2 combo points? Seems like a waste.

[bitflux 3]

13 hours ago, Guest Rogue1 said:

So even with Sinister possibly generating 2 combo points? Seems like a waste.

Have to remember that if you finish at 4 instead of 5 :

-20% on generating a combo point (Ruthlessness)

-1 sec from CD reduction

Worse energy efficiency on Dispatch

Due to this, it's still better to use it, unless you are guaranteed to waste it.

 

You can see it in apl :

if=combo_points>=cp_max_spend-(buff.broadside.up+buff.opportunity.up)*(talent.quick_draw.enabled&(!talent.marked_for_death.enabled|cooldown.marked_for_death.remains>1)
"Finish at maximum CP. Substract one for each Broadside and Opportunity when Quick Draw is selected and MfD is not ready after the next second." );

 

[Guest Zennen]

Is it a dps loss to use Killing Spree on single target, considering it's not in the ST rotation at all?

[bitflux 3]

On 7/22/2018 at 4:22 PM, Guest Zennen said:

Is it a dps loss to use Killing Spree on single target, considering it's not in the ST rotation at all?

No, it was missing, will be fixed in the next updated.

In reality you just use it on CD when it's available.

[Parthos244 0]

Why is Vigor better than Deeper Strategem? What changed that made it worth more? I'm sure the obvious is it sims higher but was just wondering mechanically wise. Has energy regen changed that much from legion to bfa that we need it?

Edited July 28, 2018 by Parthos244

[bitflux 3]

14 minutes ago, Parthos244 said:

Why is Vigor better than Deeper Strategem? What changed that made it worth more? I'm sure the obvious is it sims higher but was just wondering mechanically wise. Has energy regen changed that much from legion to bfa that we need it?

Damage composition.

Before pre-patch high end parses would have ~25%+ of Dispatch dmg, while after the patch it's closer to 15%.

Due to this, the 5% dmg buff is a lot weaker, so the main value of DS becomes being more combo point efficient.

[Zennen 0]

Would it be possible with a line or two on how to use the bracers? Do you use Between the Eyes on CD to buff pistol shot, or is it still only used with the crit buff?

[Guest Poorest Roguo]

On 7/28/2018 at 9:25 AM, bitflux said:

Damage composition.

Before pre-patch high end parses would have ~25%+ of Dispatch dmg, while after the patch it's closer to 15%.

Due to this, the 5% dmg buff is a lot weaker, so the main value of DS becomes being more combo point efficient.

But you didn't count the damage done by Between the Eyes, which wasn't use before. On my few trials it was about 5% of my damage, so that makes a total of about 20% damage for finishers. Plus, now that Sinister Strike can generate 2 combo points, we will spoil more CP when using ST at 4 CP, and potentially overriding Opportunity Shots with the suggested talents when not using it at 3 CP if we get another proc.

I guess you've tested it all with simulations anyway, and the superiority of Vigor must be true, yet I feel that I'm spoiling too much energy with this build, always the Outlaw problem during BL or Adrenalin Rush where it's hard not to cap energy. And because we are doing a lot more autos damage than before, haste may have a higher priority in the build, making the Energy caping issue even worse.

 

Just a few thoughts obviously ^^

[bitflux 3]

On 7/31/2018 at 3:40 AM, Guest Poorest Roguo said:

But you didn't count the damage done by Between the Eyes, which wasn't use before. On my few trials it was about 5% of my damage, so that makes a total of about 20% damage for finishers. Plus, now that Sinister Strike can generate 2 combo points, we will spoil more CP when using ST at 4 CP, and potentially overriding Opportunity Shots with the suggested talents when not using it at 3 CP if we get another proc.

I guess you've tested it all with simulations anyway, and the superiority of Vigor must be true, yet I feel that I'm spoiling too much energy with this build, always the Outlaw problem during BL or Adrenalin Rush where it's hard not to cap energy. And because we are doing a lot more autos damage than before, haste may have a higher priority in the build, making the Energy caping issue even worse.

 

Just a few thoughts obviously ^^

Well you also used BTE previously, unless you're looking at SnD.

On 7/29/2018 at 1:23 PM, Zennen said:

Would it be possible with a line or two on how to use the bracers? Do you use Between the Eyes on CD to buff pistol shot, or is it still only used with the crit buff?

Honestly it's a bit hard to say, since none of the APLs are actively supporting legendaries, but i'd use it on CD, but try to only consume the buff with empowered pistol shot.

[Guest Shosuroyori]

Hi just a note perhaps applies to multiple guides now the astral health potions are superior to healthstones again after stat squish

 

cheers

 

Sho

[Valks 2,375]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:45 PM, Guest Shosuroyori said:

Hi just a note perhaps applies to multiple guides now the astral health potions are superior to healthstones again after stat squish

 

cheers

 

Sho

I'll let Gray know, thanks!

[Guest Arizel]

In the stats priority you say that mastery increases the chance of a off-hand attack proc when in reality in only increases the damage of the proc.

[bobbybdennis 0]

Hi there, is it possible for someone to put a screen shot of what the bar should look like at the bottom? I am new and seeing all the stuff typed out doesn't help me much as a visual learner. Thanks in advance ? 

[bitflux 3]

22 minutes ago, bobbybdennis said:

Hi there, is it possible for someone to put a screen shot of what the bar should look like at the bottom? I am new and seeing all the stuff typed out doesn't help me much as a visual learner. Thanks in advance ? 

Sure.

Here are my keybinds.

Key things are :

Roll the Bones / Slice and Dice - 1
Sinister Strike - 2
Dispatch - 3
Kick - 5
Crimson Vial - 6
Blade Flurry - Shift 1
Pistol Shot - Shift 2
Between the Eyes - Shift 3
Adrenaline Rush - M
Killing Spree / Blade Rush - Shift T
Feint/Sprint/Grappling - Side buttons on my mouse.

[Guest killian464]

is it possible to say how far SnD is behind Alacrity?  Because i really hate the random-kind of RtB

[bitflux 3]

8 hours ago, Guest killian464 said:

is it possible to say how far SnD is behind Alacrity?  Because i really hate the random-kind of RtB

It depends on individuals gear and etc, but about 7%.

[Guest Traast]

On 7/22/2018 at 8:42 AM, bitflux said:

Have to remember that if you finish at 4 instead of 5 :

-20% on generating a combo point (Ruthlessness)

-1 sec from CD reduction

Worse energy efficiency on Dispatch

Due to this, it's still better to use it, unless you are guaranteed to waste it.

 

You can see it in apl :

if=combo_points>=cp_max_spend-(buff.broadside.up+buff.opportunity.up)*(talent.quick_draw.enabled&(!talent.marked_for_death.enabled|cooldown.marked_for_death.remains>1)
"Finish at maximum CP. Substract one for each Broadside and Opportunity when Quick Draw is selected and MfD is not ready after the next second." );

What about with RtB guaranteed extra CP and 30%+ chance of an extra CP buffs?

[Guest Denport]

Blood Rite appears to be missing from the sim comparison chart