Subtlety Rogue 8.3

[Ashine 7]

3 hours ago, ddkil said:

Ok thanks for clarification.Good to know about Inevitability and the mechanics behind stacking.

Also I use herodamage.com for my choices.Is that a reliable source?

Herodamage.com and bloodmallet.com are both reliable and updated often. However every public simulation uses a set gear profile which is likely to be different than yours. 

To be sure if a gear piece is an upgrade, you should simulate your own char with Raidbots.com, because some traits might be better or worse for you than what public simulations show.

As an example if you have a lot of Critical Strike on your gear, the trait Blightborne Infusion is likely to be worse for your character than what public simulations would imply.

[ddkil 3]

2 hours ago, Ashine said:

As an example if you have a lot of Critical Strike on your gear, the trait Blightborne Infusion is likely to be worse for your character than what public simulations would imply.

Ok.Next qestion ? Do you know the exact aoe area of Secret techniques?Is it a radius around main target or some cone behind?For me it seems like it is some form of a line behind the main target but i am not sure.

Also it have some scuffed animation of shadowstrike combined with legion artifact trait that does not fit a finisher animation at all lol

Edited August 24, 2018 by ddkil

[Ashine 7]

48 minutes ago, ddkil said:

Ok.Next qestion ? Do you know the exact aoe area of Secret techniques?Is it a radius around main target or some cone behind?For me it seems like it is some form of a line behind the main target but i am not sure.

Also it have some scuffed animation of shadowstrike combined with legion artifact trait that does not fit a finisher animation at all lol

Its a radius around the main target, not 100% certain but the AoE area should be around 8-10 yards.

[ddkil 3]

18 minutes ago, Ashine said:

Its a radius around the main target, not 100% certain but the AoE area should be around 8-10 yards.

And how much less damage adjacent enemies take?

[Ashine 7]

47 minutes ago, ddkil said:

And how much less damage adjacent enemies take?

Secondary targets take 50% of the full damage.

[Guest Yeraso]

Hi, i am running 2-3-2-2-2-1-3  for dungeons and i was wondering if it is worth it to open on a boss with: shadow blades - SS - backstab - Nightblade (4cp) - Symbols and then Shadow dance - SS - SS - Evis - SS - SS but then i go into shadow dance again and i Evis - SS - SS - Evis - SS.

 

So i only do 3 SS in my second shadow dance but i do an extra eviscerate, i thought that might be worth it since Dark Shadow gives you 25% extra damage in Shadow dance so i thought it might be better have an extra eviscerate in the Shadow Dance rather than a SS.

So is it better to just use the eviscerate since you have 6cp after the first shadow dance outside Shadow dance or inside the second one as first ability?

[Ashine 7]

5 hours ago, Guest Yeraso said:

Hi, i am running 2-3-2-2-2-1-3  for dungeons and i was wondering if it is worth it to open on a boss with: shadow blades - SS - backstab - Nightblade (4cp) - Symbols and then Shadow dance - SS - SS - Evis - SS - SS but then i go into shadow dance again and i Evis - SS - SS - Evis - SS.

 

So i only do 3 SS in my second shadow dance but i do an extra eviscerate, i thought that might be worth it since Dark Shadow gives you 25% extra damage in Shadow dance so i thought it might be better have an extra eviscerate in the Shadow Dance rather than a SS.

So is it better to just use the eviscerate since you have 6cp after the first shadow dance outside Shadow dance or inside the second one as first ability?

In your opener, theres no need to cast backstab before using Nightblade because even with 3 Combo Points it will last long enough.

Note that everything mentioned below is only applicable when playing with Dark Shadow.
I did some calculations regarding the two Eviscerates inside second Shadow Dance, and results came out to this:

With 0 Blade in the Shadows traits, two Eviscerates and 3 Shadowstrikes is better by a very tiny margin.

With 1+ Blade in the Shadows traits, one Eviscerate and 4 Shadowstrikes is better by quite a bit.

[Guest Yeraso]

10 hours ago, Ashine said:

In your opener, theres no need to cast backstab before using Nightblade because even with 3 Combo Points it will last long enough.

Note that everything mentioned below is only applicable when playing with Dark Shadow.
I did some calculations regarding the two Eviscerates inside second Shadow Dance, and results came out to this:

With 0 Blade in the Shadows traits, two Eviscerates and 3 Shadowstrikes is better by a very tiny margin.

With 1+ Blade in the Shadows traits, one Eviscerate and 4 Shadowstrikes is better by quite a bit.

Ah i always went for an extra backstab but it's quite nice if that isnt needed. 

I have 0 traits in Blade in the Shadows sadly, so thats why it was probably doing better than.

 

Thanks a lot for this guide! I played assa in legion and wanted to play sub this expansion and this guide has a helped a lot, 1 last question though. in dungeons, if you want to burst down a priority add in a group of 4-6 adds, do you ever bother to SS first (not in shadow dance but just starting in stealth) instead of just shuriken storming right of the bat but then you don't apply Find Weakness.

And is it worth it to switch to Weaponmaster in dungeons or is Find Weakness most likely going to get better with stats anyway and its better to get used to keeping up the debuff? 

[Ashine 7]

18 minutes ago, Guest Yeraso said:

1 last question though. in dungeons, if you want to burst down a priority add in a group of 4-6 adds, do you ever bother to SS first (not in shadow dance but just starting in stealth) instead of just shuriken storming right of the bat but then you don't apply Find Weakness.

And is it worth it to switch to Weaponmaster in dungeons or is Find Weakness most likely going to get better with stats anyway and its better to get used to keeping up the debuff? 

Yes, if there is a high priority add you should apply Find Weakness to it with Shadowstrike from Stealth.

With the dungeon talent setup, Weaponmaster performs slightly better on pure single-target (bosses) and Find Weakness is better for the aforementioned situations where you have a high priority target on a pack that needs to be bursted down.

Good example of this would be Mythic+ with the new Infested affix, I would always choose Find Weakness because it specifically amps up your damage against the Infested mob that needs to die first.

[Guest Vexare]

for status u know around how much haste i should have ? at 340 ilvl?

[Guest Vexare]

hello i just want to ask  about status around how much % should my haste be as 340 ilvl?

[Ashine 7]

8 hours ago, Guest Vexare said:

hello i just want to ask  about status around how much % should my haste be as 340 ilvl?

Hey, Subtlety does not have any sort of Haste caps currently, therefore there is no specific amount you should aim for.

In general for Subtlety, your highest item level items will almost always beat other ones, so just wear those or simulate your character using Raidbots.com to see what items are best for you.

[Guest Valaena]

Im running 2-2-1-1-3-1-1 and im doing more dmg than this build. And i have more sustained dmg. Is there something im screwing up using your build over mine? Im aware vigor provides more wiggle room but my opener does a full 3k dps more. Not through sims but in game since im not an actual robot.

[Ashine 7]

9 hours ago, Guest Valaena said:

Im running 2-2-1-1-3-1-1 and im doing more dmg than this build. And i have more sustained dmg. Is there something im screwing up using your build over mine? Im aware vigor provides more wiggle room but my opener does a full 3k dps more. Not through sims but in game since im not an actual robot.

Hey, that is hard for me to answer without seeing your play / logs.

If you are comparing it to the 233xx31 build, the common mistakes of that build are:

1. Not using two Shadow Dances during every Symbols of Death

2. Not getting 4 Shadowstrikes in every Shadow Dance.

Since your talent setup uses Dark Shadow, it makes sense that your opener does more DPS but in the sustained department it should be worse than the aforementioned build.

If you like the Dark Shadow playstyle, have you tried 132xx11 talent setup? It is one of the top performing builds and in my personal experience, more fun to play than the Enveloping Shadows build.

[Guest Xenop]

Question  :

Is it more valuable to have different AZerite traits or stacking is always the best choice?
In PvE i have Inevitability, Dagger int the back and Blade une the Shadows
In PvP, i've stacked Blade in the shadows

Am i correct, or did i've misunderstand this guide?

[Ashine 7]

37 minutes ago, Guest Xenop said:

Question  :

Is it more valuable to have different AZerite traits or stacking is always the best choice?
In PvE i have Inevitability, Dagger int the back and Blade une the Shadows
In PvP, i've stacked Blade in the shadows

Am i correct, or did i've misunderstand this guide?

There is no harm in stacking Azerite traits, with the exception of Inevitability due to the secondary part of the trait, which increases the duration of your Symbols of Death does not multiply with the number of traits.

As a rule of the thumb, always equip the pieces with the best performing traits but never have more than 1 Inevitability.

So in your case, if you have 3x Blade in the Shadows, that should be your best combination of traits for PvE at least, I'm not too versed in PvP currently.
 

[Vyro 1]

Hi there,

i started playing Subtlety recently because i don't enjoy the Glacial Spike Build on my Mage all to much. I am pretty new to the whole thing and i got a question. In the guide is written :

Note that you should always cast  Symbols of Death before activating Shadow Dance

On a video on youtube i saw a guy activating it after entering the Shadowdance.

if i am right both of them don't trigger a global cooldown. SoD last 10 Seconds and one Shadowdance 5 Seconds x 2 Dances = 10sec. 

My brain does not seem to find the answer why that would be important then to cast SoD first , could you let me know?

thanks....

[Ashine 7]

2 hours ago, Vyro said:

Hi there,

i started playing Subtlety recently because i don't enjoy the Glacial Spike Build on my Mage all to much. I am pretty new to the whole thing and i got a question. In the guide is written :

Note that you should always cast  Symbols of Death before activating Shadow Dance

On a video on youtube i saw a guy activating it after entering the Shadowdance.

if i am right both of them don't trigger a global cooldown. SoD last 10 Seconds and one Shadowdance 5 Seconds x 2 Dances = 10sec. 

My brain does not seem to find the answer why that would be important then to cast SoD first , could you let me know?

thanks....

It seems like I have forgotten to rewrite that part, it was important in Legion because of the delay the Legendary gloves effect had.

You are absolutely correct that you should cast them exactly at the same time.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I've pushed an update to that specific part of the guide and it should be live soon.

[Vyro 1]

2 hours ago, Ashine said:

It seems like I have forgotten to rewrite that part, it was important in Legion because of the delay the Legendary gloves effect had.

You are absolutely correct that you should cast them exactly at the same time.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I've pushed an update to that specific part of the guide and it should be live soon.

oh well...then i am happy i could help ?

[Erfurt 0]

Hey could you guys add some stat values, on the stat prio page, if you use them. It would be great for us that use pawn, which have some whack stat values by default at the moment. I mean it values Mastery at 0.09 right now. And all 'guides' I have seen, doesn't have mastery as the worst stat, so something seems very off.

[Ashine 7]

On 9/8/2018 at 7:46 PM, Erfurt said:

Hey could you guys add some stat values, on the stat prio page, if you use them. It would be great for us that use pawn, which have some whack stat values by default at the moment. I mean it values Mastery at 0.09 right now. And all 'guides' I have seen, doesn't have mastery as the worst stat, so something seems very off.

Hey, I would strongly recommend simulating your own character using Raidbots.com to get accurate stat weights for your own character, its fairly easy to do!

The reason most of us are not comfortable with having stat weights on the guides is because they are different for everyone.

[cross34 0]

Hi,

Great guide! I recently just started playing a rogue, and have switched from outlaw to subtlety. Enjoying it a lot but still confused by a few things:

1. If i have the talent deeper stratagem, do i also increase the cast point of evis to 5+ instead of 4+? Also is it the same for nb and secret technique? Or should i try to be cp capped before using those 2 (was only mentioned in the rotation for evis so wondering if it’s different)

2. A bit confused about always using shadow dance, sod and secret technique together. Does this mean i only ever cast them when all 3 are up? Which will be every 45 secs. Or since sod is only 30 secs do i cast the 2nd one with shadow dance when both are up (secret technique will still be on cooldown) then just hold secret technique until sod and shadow dance are back up again?

3. For aoe, is there a certain number of mobs wherein just spamming shuriken storm will be better dps than applying nb or eviscerating to avoid capping cp? Right now i have no rotation difference when facing 3 mobs and 15 (cds, storm, nb/evis). Will this always be better even if there are a lot of mobs?

[Ashine 7]

10 hours ago, cross34 said:

Hi,

Great guide! I recently just started playing a rogue, and have switched from outlaw to subtlety. Enjoying it a lot but still confused by a few things:

1. If i have the talent deeper stratagem, do i also increase the cast point of evis to 5+ instead of 4+? Also is it the same for nb and secret technique? Or should i try to be cp capped before using those 2 (was only mentioned in the rotation for evis so wondering if it’s different)

With Deeper Stratagem, finish with 5+ Combo Points. The threshold is the same for Secret Technique, but Nightblade can be refreshed with lower amount of Combo Points in certain situations to maintain the debuff although 4+ is preferred.

Thanks for pointing this out, will update the guide to clarify the finisher thresholds with different talents.

Quote

2. A bit confused about always using shadow dance, sod and secret technique together. Does this mean i only ever cast them when all 3 are up? Which will be every 45 secs. Or since sod is only 30 secs do i cast the 2nd one with shadow dance when both are up (secret technique will still be on cooldown) then just hold secret technique until sod and shadow dance are back up again?

Secret Technique has a cooldown reduction component (cooldown reduced by Combo Points spent), which makes it line up with Symbols of Death on single-target.

Quote

3. For aoe, is there a certain number of mobs wherein just spamming shuriken storm will be better dps than applying nb or eviscerating to avoid capping cp? Right now i have no rotation difference when facing 3 mobs and 15 (cds, storm, nb/evis). Will this always be better even if there are a lot of mobs?

Spamming Shuriken Storm might yield a very tiny short term DPS-increase, but if you are spamming it, you are not getting cooldown reduction on Shadow Dance, which will make your damage lower in the long run.

The only situation where only Shuriken Storming could potentially be worth it, is if there are a lot of small mobs that only live for 2-4 seconds.

[cross34 0]

I see. Thank you so much for the clarifications! ❤️ 

[Guest Progz]

Hello,

there is a mistake on the Bis gear page.

1.  Vest of Reverent Adoration from Atal'Dazar. Choose  Rezan's Fury and Gutripper.

 

 This vest is dropped by King Dazar in King's rest and not Atal'Dazar ?

 

Thanks for this amazing work.