Subtlety Rogue 8.3

[Guest Skinnyflakk]

Hey bro, first thx for your guide, its amazing. My problem is that i recently got a 355 hood and chest from uldir (hood of pestilent ichor and jerkin of the aberrant chimera) but when i sim myself i get more dmg with the 340 ones (like 5% more), i think its because of the traits, in the 340 i have 1 blade in the shadows and 1 inevitability, so i dont know if i do what the sims tell me or keep the 355... (if there is a mistake in my english sorry im from chile :D)                     

 

[cross34 0]

Hi Ashine,

Are there any raid bosses where you use Dark Shadow and Secret Technique? I understand it's for multi target but what about bosses where there are only a few cleave opportunities? Would it still be worth it for the few times i am able to use Secret Technique?

Thanks!

[Guest Loggi]

Is sub still viable?

Since the dmg nerf from yesterday i feel like im dealing 30% less dmg instead of those 5% which were announced.
In a Mythic Dungeon where i had ~ 11-12k dps over the whole dungeon my dmg fell off to ~8-9k, i don´t think they nerfed the dmg by only 5%.
Did Assa took the lead?

[Carrn 284]

20 hours ago, Guest Loggi said:

Is sub still viable?

Since the dmg nerf from yesterday i feel like im dealing 30% less dmg instead of those 5% which were announced.
In a Mythic Dungeon where i had ~ 11-12k dps over the whole dungeon my dmg fell off to ~8-9k, i don´t think they nerfed the dmg by only 5%.
Did Assa took the lead?

I still play Sub, honestly haven't noticed much of a difference as a whole

 

[Guest Loggi]

1 hour ago, Carrn said:

I still play Sub, honestly haven't noticed much of a difference as a whole

 

I don´t know, it seems like i had REALLY bad luck when posting this. Ran some today, didnt feel much difference aswell. Maybe some piece of gear had no durability or w/e.

[Ashine 7]

On 9/12/2018 at 6:07 AM, Guest Skinnyflakk said:

Hey bro, first thx for your guide, its amazing. My problem is that i recently got a 355 hood and chest from uldir (hood of pestilent ichor and jerkin of the aberrant chimera) but when i sim myself i get more dmg with the 340 ones (like 5% more), i think its because of the traits, in the 340 i have 1 blade in the shadows and 1 inevitability, so i dont know if i do what the sims tell me or keep the 355... (if there is a mistake in my english sorry im from chile :D)                     

 

Hey, the simulation might not consider the Reorigination Array buff (as far as I know, SimulationCraft just has it give 75 stats, whilst it increases every week).

But that being said, the possible traits on both of those two items are fairly weak, so I would trust the simulation and wear the 340 with Blade in the Shadows and Inevitability.

[Ashine 7]

On 9/12/2018 at 5:07 PM, cross34 said:

Hi Ashine,

Are there any raid bosses where you use Dark Shadow and Secret Technique? I understand it's for multi target but what about bosses where there are only a few cleave opportunities? Would it still be worth it for the few times i am able to use Secret Technique?

Thanks!

I would only consider using Dark Shadow and Secret Technique on bosses such as Zek'voz (Mythic and potentially HC) and Zul (HC, on Mythic you will most likely run Shuriken Tornado or Master of Shadows).

Outside of those fights, the single-target builds will in general out perform Secret Technique, as there is not too many add fight bosses in Uldir.

[Ashine 7]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:20 PM, Guest Progz said:

Hello,

there is a mistake on the Bis gear page.

1.  Vest of Reverent Adoration from Atal'Dazar. Choose  Rezan's Fury and Gutripper.

 

 This vest is dropped by King Dazar in King's rest and not Atal'Dazar ?

 

Thanks for this amazing work.

Thanks for pointing this out, I must have confused the two troll dungeons somehow!

Will update it shortly

[Ashine 7]

Also adding my thoughts on the Subtlety nerfs;

5% nerf was very reasonable, Subtlety was performing bit too well.

Currently Assassination and Subtlety seem very close to each other in Uldir, but as soon as Assassinations Shrouded Suffocation trait gets toned down (which is very likely considering how its performing right now), Subtlety should be the go-to spec again by a fairly big margin.

 

[cross34 0]

Hi Ashine,

Thanks for clarifying! ? Have another question:

Do my Eviscerates in the opener need to fall inside the Shadow Dance buff? And if yes, does the opener sequence require a certain amount of haste?

Asking because i can't seem to complete the skills listed down in time. For example in my first Shadow Dance, i only get to Shadowstrike twice, Evis/STech, Shadowstrike twice again before Shadow Dance falls off. Meanwhile, the guide tells me to Evis AND Mark of Death + Evis (which i assume should be inside Shadow Dance for the Dark Shadow buff if talented?) Do i just Evis anyway even without Shadow Dance?

I also play with ~200ms regularly so don't know if that could be the cause.

[Ashine 7]

22 hours ago, cross34 said:

Hi Ashine,

Thanks for clarifying! ? Have another question:

Do my Eviscerates in the opener need to fall inside the Shadow Dance buff? And if yes, does the opener sequence require a certain amount of haste?

Asking because i can't seem to complete the skills listed down in time. For example in my first Shadow Dance, i only get to Shadowstrike twice, Evis/STech, Shadowstrike twice again before Shadow Dance falls off. Meanwhile, the guide tells me to Evis AND Mark of Death + Evis (which i assume should be inside Shadow Dance for the Dark Shadow buff if talented?) Do i just Evis anyway even without Shadow Dance?

I also play with ~200ms regularly so don't know if that could be the cause.

The Marked for Death +  Eviscerate is not inside shadow dance.  Usually you will only talent into MfD with the Enveloping Shadows setup for pure single target. 

Also it is important to note that Haste does NOT reduce the global cooldown for Rogues, it only affects your Energy regen and Attack Speed.

When playing with the dungeon talent setup (Dark Shadow and Secret Technique), if you do not have Bloodlust/Heroism you will have to pool a little bit of energy on your opener to be able to get 2 Shadowstrikes, Evis/Secret Technique and 2 Shadowstrikes on both shadow dances as you will run out of energy without Master of Shadows.

[cross34 0]

1 hour ago, Ashine said:

The Marked for Death +  Eviscerate is not inside shadow dance.  Usually you will only talent into MfD with the Enveloping Shadows setup for pure single target. 

Also it is important to note that Haste does NOT reduce the global cooldown for Rogues, it only affects your Energy regen and Attack Speed.

When playing with the dungeon talent setup (Dark Shadow and Secret Technique), if you do not have Bloodlust/Heroism you will have to pool a little bit of energy on your opener to be able to get 2 Shadowstrikes, Evis/Secret Technique and 2 Shadowstrikes on both shadow dances as you will run out of energy without Master of Shadows.

I see. I'm also unable to fit in the final Eviscerate before Shadow Dance falls off, so i guess it might be because of my ping. ? Are there any addons that can help with this? Like a spell queue for GCDs?

Thanks for the response! ?

[ddkil 3]

After latest nerfs sub is clearly the worst spec right now,not to say that it is completely garbage in pvp and none plays it anymore but I can feel with my guts that 5% nerf.Even on parses sub is behind everything else...

Fucking blizzard always have to ruin fun for their gamers,I was enjoying it so much during the 7.3 and actually in BfA (at least what left of it with secret techniques) but now its pure struggle to get on par with other specs.I am pissed lol

What are your thoughts Ashine?Do you have to switch in mythics or you still playing sub?

Edited September 17, 2018 by ddkil

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, ddkil said:

After latest nerfs sub is clearly the worst spec right now,not to say that it is completely garbage in pvp and none plays it anymore but I can feel with my guts that 5% nerf.Even on parses sub is behind everything else...

Fucking blizzard always have to ruin fun for their gamers,I was enjoying it so much during the 7.3 and actually in BfA (at least what left of it with secret techniques) but now its pure struggle to get on par with other specs.I am pissed lol

What are your thoughts Ashine?Do you have to switch in mythics or you still playing sub?

Every spec is viable at the moment. You can have a look at stats from the last week, each Rogue spec is effectively around the same level at the 75th and 99th percentiles

Each of the specs is  good at different things, and they each have talent builds which allow them to optimize in different ways. I'm not Ashine but I still play Sub and don't feel handicapped at all

[Ashine 7]

As Carrn said above, Subtlety is very fine currently, although currently I am playing Assassination on most Mythic bosses (because Shrouded Suffocation trait is overpowered).

 

[Guest Bolli]

Are you switching to sub now after the recent nerf to SS or what are your recommendations (traits and spec) now for Raid and M+?

[Ashine 7]

On 9/20/2018 at 12:32 AM, Guest Bolli said:

Are you switching to sub now after the recent nerf to SS or what are your recommendations (traits and spec) now for Raid and M+?

I have been playing both and to be honest, I'm not sure yet which feels better.

It doesn't seem like the trait recommendations have changed, as Subtlety you want 1 Inevitability and then just 2 of the highest iLvL / highest simulating traits you can get your hands on.

If your question was for Assassination regarding traits, not entirely sure about those either. Shrouded Suffocation still seems strong in Mythic+ but lackluster in raids.

[Guest Assa Question]

Why is the top mythic+ rogue on raider.io stacking crit instead of haste?

[Ashine 7]

7 hours ago, Guest Assa Question said:

Why is the top mythic+ rogue on raider.io stacking crit instead of haste?

Hey, this is the Subtlety guide but I think I know the reasoning for that regardless.

Haste loses value when you have multiple targets as Assassination which is a very common scenario in Mythic+. Therefore most Assassination rogues stack Crit and Mastery for M+ to gain more overall damage.

[Guest Kyurise]

Hi Ashine,

I have a question for the mythics + rotations. Whenever there is only 2-3 targets, i'm having a hard time to have a proper dps with dark shadow and secret technique. The rotation is quite slow in this case because i need to cast two shuriken storms energy very quickly. So what would be the perfect rotation for small mob pack (2-3 targets) ?

[Ashine 7]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:42 PM, Guest Kyurise said:

Hi Ashine,

I have a question for the mythics + rotations. Whenever there is only 2-3 targets, i'm having a hard time to have a proper dps with dark shadow and secret technique. The rotation is quite slow in this case because i need to cast two shuriken storms energy very quickly. So what would be the perfect rotation for small mob pack (2-3 targets) ?

2-3 target situations are where Subtlety is at its worst relative to many other specs, so its normal to do fairly low DPS in those scenarios.

The rotation you mentioned is correct, just use Shuriken Storms until you have 4-6 Combo Points to cast finishers.

[Guest Azgedah]

PvP talent Phantom Assassin is not available any more.

[Ashine 7]

On 12/30/2018 at 3:13 AM, Guest Azgedah said:

PvP talent Phantom Assassin is not available any more.

Thanks for pointing that mistake out, will be fixed.