Enhancement Shaman 8.3

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Enhancement Shaman guide.

[Guest Thanks]

Thanks for taking the time to put this out!!!

[Valks 2,375]

1 hour ago, Guest Thanks said:

Thanks for taking the time to put this out!!!

Glad to see you like it!

[Guest Drfisky]

No mention of the Earth Elemental? Assume we should br popping him for a dps boost yeah?

[wordup 37]

1 hour ago, Guest Drfisky said:

No mention of the Earth Elemental? Assume we should br popping him for a dps boost yeah?

The damage it's going to do, even if it gets the entire 1 minute off right now in the pre-patch is so low it's barely worth a global cooldown unless you have absolutely nothing else, it won't die, it won't stop attacking and it won't get out of range, to the point were it's really not something worth worrying about.

[Guest Kanyanairo]

Its interesting that the stat weights have almost completely flipped, from mastery being one of the strongest stats to one of the worst. What do you think caused that?

Also, the math on the item weight example doesn't seem to make sense.

Thanks for the work putting this together and updating so quickly for the pre-patch!

[wordup 37]

1 hour ago, Guest Kanyanairo said:

Its interesting that the stat weights have almost completely flipped, from mastery being one of the strongest stats to one of the worst. What do you think caused that? 

Also, the math on the item weight example doesn't seem to make sense. 

Thanks for the work putting this together and updating so quickly for the pre-patch!

ah sorry I'd left the values in from the old comparison code, should be fixed now!

With regards to Mastery I think it's a combination of both the increased shift to Physical damage in the pre-patch (especially considering we can double up on Physical damage oriented talents with the class ring); the large upshoot in Auto Attack damage compared to previously, and the loss of Tempest which was doing a lot to devalue Critical Strike.

There was a very large amount of things in the old Legion kit that had Mastery scaling under the hood to boost things that were Physical as well (such as Unleash Doom) or flat lean you toward Mastery affected spells (like Lashing Flames). With all of that stripped away the dominance of Stormstrike is now even more prevelant and with it scaling so poorly with the stat in comparison to other spells and in tandem compared to other stats that you could take that do have a significant boost for Stormstrike, it all adds together to hurt it in the Pre-patch.

Last but not least I think the abundance of secondaries we have because it's the tail end of the expansion is leading to the high Haste values we have giving more opportunities to cast those Stormstrikes, which kind of exacerbate the issues I said above, kind of the perfect anti-Mastery storm so to speak.

[Guest Lucy]

Hi !

I used to be part of an excellent Shaman Community on Discord, where Wordup gave news and tips about the class. I don't know why I'm not in anymore. Does it still exist ? Is it possible to get an invitation ?

Thanks for your answer ?

[wordup 37]

1 hour ago, Guest Lucy said:

Hi !

I used to be part of an excellent Shaman Community on Discord, where Wordup gave news and tips about the class. I don't know why I'm not in anymore. Does it still exist ? Is it possible to get an invitation ?

Thanks for your answer ?

Yeah, Earthshrine still exists! Can join at discord.gg/earthshrine

[Guest deepskit]

so, u don't maintain frostbrand anymore? unless u have hail?

[Guest Lucy]

Hey, thank you for your answer ! I'm glad to join the community again and see your precious advices ! ?

[wordup 37]

7 hours ago, Guest deepskit said:

so, u don't maintain frostbrand anymore? unless u have hail?

Never have used Frostbrand without Hailstorm, it doesn't deal enough damage to be worth the Maelstrom and the effect doesn't provide any damage outside of the slow.

[Guest Ahtycs]

2 questions.

1) Why is Sundering prioritized below Stormstrike and Overcharged LB?

A single Sundering even not boosted by Earthen Spike is a fair amount above a SS even with Stormbringer. Why is it put below SS and even LB in the rotation? I understand why LB is put below SS as it resets the melee swing timer and they only match in damage.

2) Has much testing been put into Hailstorm into AoE? Crash Lightning makes it hit everything and after about 5 targets where you're using Crash on CD it starts to add up. More than that you're pretty global locked with so many Stormbringer procs anyway. A 20 Maelstrom cost every 16 seconds woven with leeway versus 10 second demand on Searing Assault.

[wordup 37]

56 minutes ago, Guest Ahtycs said:

2 questions.

1) Why is Sundering prioritized below Stormstrike and Overcharged LB?

A single Sundering even not boosted by Earthen Spike is a fair amount above a SS even with Stormbringer. Why is it put below SS and even LB in the rotation? I understand why LB is put below SS as it resets the melee swing timer and they only match in damage.

2) Has much testing been put into Hailstorm into AoE? Crash Lightning makes it hit everything and after about 5 targets where you're using Crash on CD it starts to add up. More than that you're pretty global locked with so many Stormbringer procs anyway. A 20 Maelstrom cost every 16 seconds woven with leeway versus 10 second demand on Searing Assault.

1 - Sundering is low predominantly because it displaces nothing else in the rotation, so it can simply slot in. Whilst it's DPGCD is high, the chance of you losing a use by delaying it is much lower which puts it lower in the rotation compared to other skills above it that are more strictly locked. With regards to LB, it's lower simply because it does less damage (and it doesn't reset the swing timer with Overcharge - something not super clear in game, since the regular LB casts do). It would serve in the same bracket as displacing other things, but Stormstrike is just way too valuable to delay putting it on cooldown right now, and risking a reset waste is monumentally bad for your output.

Do note though, you can realistically just fire Sundering off on CD and not see much of a loss - if any - with the way the spec is tuned now. It's lower in part intentionally because it discourages wasting it if there is AoE incoming, but you won't see a drastic gain by forcing it every 40sec vs. using it when it naturally aligns with dead zones within 5-10~ sec of coming back up based on sims we've performed.

2 - WRT Hailstorm, it does hit in AoE but the GCDs you spend on casting it is going to inevitably reduce the number of spender casts that actually trigger Crash Lightning in the first place - which is significantly higher. I'm fairly sure you could find very fringe situations where Hailstorm would gain if you cast it 5-6~ seconds before the AoE began and you got the extra triggers, but it's the kind of thing that is a pipe dream for ideal encounters, and not something that would be a consistent rule and more a happenstance occurence. Hailstorm damage is just so low even with multiple targets considered (and that it only triggers from the initial cast of CL rather than the splashes) that it serves to overload the priority rather than allow more room which, during AoE, it requires even more GCDs due to the increased Stormbringer rate. It may on the surface seem to add up but it really is extremely inconsequential vs. the GCD investment required to actually keep it up.

[ScythA 0]

18 hours ago, wordup said:

1 - Sundering is low predominantly because it displaces nothing else in the rotation, so it can simply slot in. Whilst it's DPGCD is high, the chance of you losing a use by delaying it is much lower which puts it lower in the rotation compared to other skills above it that are more strictly locked. With regards to LB, it's lower simply because it does less damage (and it doesn't reset the swing timer with Overcharge - something not super clear in game, since the regular LB casts do). It would serve in the same bracket as displacing other things, but Stormstrike is just way too valuable to delay putting it on cooldown right now, and risking a reset waste is monumentally bad for your output.

Do note though, you can realistically just fire Sundering off on CD and not see much of a loss - if any - with the way the spec is tuned now. It's lower in part intentionally because it discourages wasting it if there is AoE incoming, but you won't see a drastic gain by forcing it every 40sec vs. using it when it naturally aligns with dead zones within 5-10~ sec of coming back up based on sims we've performed.

2 - WRT Hailstorm, it does hit in AoE but the GCDs you spend on casting it is going to inevitably reduce the number of spender casts that actually trigger Crash Lightning in the first place - which is significantly higher. I'm fairly sure you could find very fringe situations where Hailstorm would gain if you cast it 5-6~ seconds before the AoE began and you got the extra triggers, but it's the kind of thing that is a pipe dream for ideal encounters, and not something that would be a consistent rule and more a happenstance occurence. Hailstorm damage is just so low even with multiple targets considered (and that it only triggers from the initial cast of CL rather than the splashes) that it serves to overload the priority rather than allow more room which, during AoE, it requires even more GCDs due to the increased Stormbringer rate. It may on the surface seem to add up but it really is extremely inconsequential vs. the GCD investment required to actually keep it up.

Thanks for the quick response and in-depth info, it was exactly what I was looking for. Clearing up the LB stuff is awesome to know. I've already improved my DPS by about 200 switching to Searing assault even though I love running Overcharge, Sundering and Earthen Spike for their timer synergy. Not keen to play with Roll the Wolves but the AoE potential looks great. I intend to main Enh even if it's bad because I love it's playstyles. Another quick question though if I may.

On big packs will it be worth delaying CL by XX (variable time) to fish for forceful winds stacks on the chance CL procs a Windfury on everything? Say for example Forceful Winds is up to 12 seconds so you can only get 1 crash in it's remaining timer anyway but you're not on 5 stacks yet.

[wordup 37]

28 minutes ago, ScythA said:

Thanks for the quick response and in-depth info, it was exactly what I was looking for. Clearing up the LB stuff is awesome to know. I've already improved my DPS by about 200 switching to Searing assault even though I love running Overcharge, Sundering and Earthen Spike for their timer synergy. Not keen to play with Roll the Wolves but the AoE potential looks great. I intend to main Enh even if it's bad because I love it's playstyles. Another quick question though if I may. 

On big packs will it be worth delaying CL by XX (variable time) to fish for forceful winds stacks on the chance CL procs a Windfury on everything? Say for example Forceful Winds is up to 12 seconds so you can only get 1 crash in it's remaining timer anyway but you're not on 5 stacks yet.

Since Forceful Winds is cyclical rather than refreshing, you generally are just aiming to trigger CL as much as possible (alongside getting Gathering Storms racked up, trigger Stormbringer as much as possible and lead into heavy Stormstrike casts afterward). Were Windfury triggers more reliable, I could definitely see a sitaution where holding it would be useful, but the variance is just so high that you want to maximise the opportunities and instances that you can fire it, and potentially rack the stacks up as high as possible for a subsequent Crash that will have 4-5 stacks going at the tail end of the cycle. This is especially true due to the intitial cast gaining the benefit from any FW stacks gained on the cast, so you aren't going to suffer from going from 1 to 5 in a single cast, they'll all be treated as a 5 stack trigger.

Holding it will likely impact the quality of the procs but will boost up the volume, and number of triggers - therefore increasing Stormbringer chance instances - and getting back to the cycle as soon as Crash is back up since you want to try your upmost to fill as many of those interim CL casts in AoE with Stormstrike (which the CL SB triggers help), I've found delaying is a detriment. It's something that in later BfA Sim APL testing I'll definitely look into though and note down since it's possible; but the low cooldown of CL at its base leans me toward expecting it to at least to some extent play itself by being a cooldown locked AoE tool.

[Trypida 0]

Hi , im new with enhancement sham ,i do not play from woltk ,  someone tell me Cap of stats priority for pve and pvp in bfa , short in few words please ,Thanks

Edited July 31, 2018 by Trypida

[wordup 37]

18 hours ago, Trypida said:

Hi , im new with enhancement sham ,i do not play from woltk ,  someone tell me Cap of stats priority for pve and pvp in bfa , short in few words please ,Thanks

You can find that on the Stat Priority page

[Guest jackplazma]

hm, looks like enhs in a game again?

[Guest Guest 32]

My shaman is an engineer.  So I am naturally interested in the crafted gear.  Rezan's Fury didn't make your outer rim list of top enhancement traits.  Is it because it is a limited to just one piece of gear or because it doesn't stack up to the other traits?  Also, I know primary stat is more important in BFA than in Legion, but at lvl 120 do the secondary stats become very significant once again?

[wordup 37]

On 8/11/2018 at 3:32 AM, Guest Guest 32 said:

My shaman is an engineer.  So I am naturally interested in the crafted gear.  Rezan's Fury didn't make your outer rim list of top enhancement traits.  Is it because it is a limited to just one piece of gear or because it doesn't stack up to the other traits?  Also, I know primary stat is more important in BFA than in Legion, but at lvl 120 do the secondary stats become very significant once again?

Primary is always dominant. Rezan's isn't crafted, and has improved with recent sims. Generally speaking you are going to be aiming for neutral T3 traits, sims will be updated with PvP/Engineer options asap when the site allows it for sim display.

[Guest MrJenkins]

Something changed with nerf Darkmoon Trinket Dps?

[Guest Fidget]

Sorry if I missed it, but I don't see anything about the Glory in Battle trait, which procs a crit and haste buff, and has a greater chance to occur in PvP.

Is this trait competitive in PvE?

[Guest Stormy]

I'd like to ask, why is Flametongue (when buff not active) first on the ability priority list? Missing a gcd:s worth of Flametongue-buffed melee attacks seems much better than potentially losing a Stormstrike cast due to Stormbringer proccing on that gcd.

2 missed Flametongue procs would be about 10% of attack power, while a Stormstrike is 358% (or more with Stormbringer).

[Guest Playgoat]

Excellent read, as always.

 

Just wanted to mention that I did get a 355 wrist, I believe in the first week.  So Titanforging must be capped at least at that.