FCoR for Heroic Blackfuse/Garrosh

[Akraen 230]

Heya - bit of a discussion happening in my loot council. As a frost mage, I'll intend to use FCoR on Heroic Blackfuse 25 crawler mines. It'll be a pretty significant contributor to DPS actually.

 

I'm finding some KFC potato opinions about FCoR for warlocks. When FCoR drops, our warlocks seem to want it.

 

I'm curious, anyone have some numbers or something concrete I can deliver to my guild's loot council to indicate that warlocks would indeed desire a potato over this trinket?

 

Also Zagam, if you reply - any idea how good it is for Moonkin or anyone else on Siegecrafter mines? We just want to make sure the trinkets get into the hands of the casters that would actually use them for progression.

 

Thanks for your time locks <3

[Oldtrout 7]

I'm finding some KFC potato opinions about FCoR for warlocks. When FCoR drops, our warlocks seem to want it.

There is something wrong with your warlocks.

[Zagam 1,982]

When people go "I want that trinket for Galakras," I find it disturbing.  While the Crawler Mines are an important mechanic of Siegecrafter, I don't see the cleave component coming in very often.  With excellent stacking/kiting of the mines, it's pretty easy to cleave, but not for long periods of time.  Also, unless your raid is derping, there should be no NEED for the trinket to take down the Crawler Mines.  The trinket is just a novice item for trash at best.  It has some applications in specialized parts of fights, but I argue that they are not the most important parts of the fight.

 

For Galakras, the AoE on the trash is largely destroyed by everyone's AoE.  Anyone struggling on this fight will not all of a sudden have 10 seconds to stand there because their trinket wiped out the whole trash pack.  Same goes for Crawler Mines.  People forget that the proc rate is like 3% on the Heroic version.  On the Galakras trash, there is what, 5-6 adds up at one time?  Fire and Brimstone will hit 6 targets, so your accumulation effect of your trinket happening is still sub 20%.  During the ACTUAL fight where Galakras lands, the trinket becomes largely ineffective.

 

For Siegecrafter, FCoR would hold you back on ANY damage done to Siegecrafter, which I argue is the MAIN importance of this fight.  If you're struggling to do the mines for any reason, it is because of CC issues, lack of people switching, or people using the wrong abilities.  Granted, I'm now in a 25 man, but last night, Mines were not an issue after 3 attempts where the Warlocks all got comfortable using FnB, the Hunters got their AoE down, Chillblains was applied, traps were used, etc.  No one equipped a trinket and solved the problem.  Not sure if you're in a 10 or 25, but we used 4 Destruction Warlocks, 2 Survival Hunters, and 1 Elemental Shaman.  Our Brewmaster was also always up there in damage on the Mines.  If you want to look at our logs from last night, go to Malganis on World of Logs and go to the bottom and look at Zagam's Logs.  There should be 15-20 Siegecrafter wipes you can look at.

 

TL;DR: It's still a shit trinket, even in gimmick parts of fights.  The gimmick parts of fights aren't stressful enough on your raid to necessitate a specialized trinket. 

[Soulzar 42]

I honestly wouldn't see how it could be useful for any caster, even situationally like you described.  

 

Granted I have yet to work on either Heroic Blackfuse or Garrosh, but I really do not see how using a cleave trinket would be beneficial.  You are looking to use a trinket that may be marginally better than an alternative for like 10% of the fight, if that.

 

I know at least on normal for Garrosh you want to put enough Aoe to put the adds in Iron Star execute range then tunnel boss, and the other 75% of the fight is single target.  I just see no reason to focus on cleave for phase 1.  Same with Blackfuse, nuking mines is what, 45 seconds of the fight?  The rest of the time it is all single target.

 

I honestly do not know how good the trinket it for any other class, but it sounds like you want it for the same reason your locks do, situationally.  I am fairly sure mages want KTT and Bindings just like destro locks.  So why the need to push council to let you take it?

 

You have my stamp of approveal to tell your guildies that Mashed Potatoes would be best, but i think you should try the potatoes too!  The way I see it, you can have a multistrike trinket on that "cleaves" extra dmg to single target as well as single targets while aoeing...  or a cleave trinket that spreads dmg to multi targets and does nothing single target.

[Lockybalboa 618]

No one should want that trinket. Ever. For any reason. It is hands down the worst caster trinket ever made.

[Akraen 230]

Thanks Zagam, that's pretty much what I figured.

 

See, frost mages can kinda gimmick/abuse FCoR a little bit with Glyph of Splitting Ice (I noticed FCoR's "Cleave" damage happening to Iron Juggernaut when I accidentally left it on, it was triggering from Glyph of Splitting Ice and hitting him instead).

 

So I figure due to that weird quirk/bug, it probably means the trinket can only be useful to a frost mage. As much as I know mages, I'm pretty ignorant about other casters.

 

We're 25M, so there will be a lot of mines. We'll probably be running 4 destro locks, 1 frost mage, and 2 fire mages.

[Omaric 246]

No one should want that trinket. Ever. For any reason. It is hands down the worst caster trinket ever made.

 

Dude, it's like... so good for inflating DPS on Yogg'Saron with no Thorim up.  Totally.

[Muoric 3]

When people go "I want that trinket for Galakras," I find it disturbing.

I don't. Because that's the only place where it's any good. And there it's big enough a dps increase that if you want a good ranking it's worth it. Then again I'd add to that sentece terms ranking or funsies at least. Not big enough a reason to ever go kill malkorok if there's anyone who might actually get something useful out of the boss.

Granted I have yet to work on either Heroic Blackfuse or Garrosh, but I really do not see how using a cleave trinket would be beneficial.  You are looking to use a trinket that may be marginally better than an alternative for like 10% of the fight, if that.

 

I know at least on normal for Garrosh you want to put enough Aoe to put the adds in Iron Star execute range then tunnel boss, and the other 75% of the fight is single target.  I just see no reason to focus on cleave for phase 1.  Same with Blackfuse, nuking mines is what, 45 seconds of the fight?  The rest of the time it is all single target.

For any guild on garrosh hc the aoe should be trivial really in p1 even without that trinket. Using that trinket might look good for pulls where you wipe in p1, but then you'd totally gimp yourself on the actual phases where single target dps matters like getting p2 done before 3rd transition. The only place where aoe dps matters is the toes part of p2 and there the adds die in 3-5 casts meaning the trinket is worthless there also.

Siegecrafter you covered pretty nicely already, the aoe requirement on mines is also there such a small part of the fight it makes no sense to grab that trinket for that also.

p.s. that being said I'd still like to have it for galakras funsies So maybe I'll go see about my first malkorok kill one of these days.