Please review me (Prot) and my Fury warrior.

[Keimorl 3]

I've worked with Estar a bit on my Prot setup and , and I've run with both Estar and Rage in Zag's flex runs.  Time to air my dirty laundry...   Any help is appreciated of course, and you've been an awesome resource Estar.  /hug

 

I know that I have a problem with focus during raiding... as GM/RL/MT I find myself often focusing on my rotation as a third priority.   My first priorities are calling things out, making sure people are in the right positions and not dying, marking stuff (e.g. Malkorok), etc.   I definately am not SBlk+SS+TC+yadda, yadda, yadda.   My rotation is... I basically spam shield block, pop SS whenever it's up, and pop Revenge whenever it's up and SS isn't.  I try and use SBar whenever theirs a big incoming hit and I have rage.... I try to let it fill up as much as possible before doing it, but if it's a regular attack from a boss coming in every 5-10 seconds or something, I pop it whenever I have enough rage to do so.

 

I don't focus on TC unless there are a bunch of adds... I used to track it using Tellmewhen, but since I tank with a Druid 99% of the time I'm lazy and don't track it anymore.

 

If I'm first I prepot and blow a couple of big personal CDs at the start to help my snap threat.  I'll save banner for lust.   I use Demo + HS as a DPS CD.   I've tried to get better about using Vig on my tanking partner since Estar pointed out I wasn't using it, and I turned my fury warrior onto it.

 

As to my fury warrior (Teerekks), he does his rotation in his sleep... sometimes literally.     He's three hours ahead of us and works early, but he's also quite good.  He's carried us as DPS for quite awhile, until the last couple of months where everyone else has put in some extra work and is catching up.

 

As to the logs, I log all normal, heroic and flex... we just started on H- Immerseus Tuesday.   The best ones to look at IMO are 11/12, 11/21 and 11/26.

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/159225/

 

Any help is appreciated... and really appreciate your time!   I know how time strapped I am so feedback is wonderful.

 

Also, I don't think it will be easy to change where or how I focus (old dog... new tricks), but if I could have a simple focus priority and then build from there I think I could improve.

 

Thanks!

[ragebarr 153]

I'm not the best prot, so I could give you basic advice but I don't think it would be anything you don't know already.

 

However, as an ex RL, I would say that you cannot babysit your raid too much, else you will just perform less well. There really isn't a way around it, you just have to trust your raid members to do their jobs. Calling out stuff is fine, marking stuff when you have too is fine too. However, making sure people are standing in the right spot should be each person's job, and not yours. The more you need to watch over other people the less time you'll have to focus on doing your own stuff right.

 

---

 

As far as your Fury Warrior goes, he seems good enough, save a few things. I don't agree with his choices of gems (He could easily go and grab 1.5 to 2% more crit easily by switching a few gems and reforges). Also, glyph of Recklessness is definitely not a DPS increase, therefore he should not be using it. Finally, it might just be because he has been unlucky with gear drops, but if he could get 2 2-handers with equivalent ilvl to his current weapons he would see a significant DPS increase.

[Estarriol 167]

11/26 Immerseus H Try15:

Duration: 4 min

I see one Shield Wall and two Last Stands, the LSs look good for the length of time but I think you could have fit in one more Shield Wall. Not terrible though, that's close to being in line with what I'd expect. Demoralizing Shout registers 14 hits. Normally at this point I'd throw up my hands and declare that I have not even one clue as to how many times you used it, but you have Incite. I see four Incite casts, so that looks liek four uses of Demo Shout. That's in line with what I'd expect.

 

I see that you took Enraged Regen and used it three times. Good. I also see that you took Shockwave. Why? The adds don't hit all that hard, so you could have popped a CD and used Bladestorm to destroy them. Especially with Incite, you should have no issue getting adds down fast enough for them to not be a concern.

 

I see 11 uses of SBlk for an uptime of 30.8%, but only two uses of SBar. Their overhealing is o%, but their average size is only 200k. This seems low to me. You took three Corrosive Blasts, so you should have 3 SBars at absolute minimum. Furthermore, neither of your SBars actually mitigated any portion of any of the Corrosive Blasts. You had zero absorbs for the largest spike of damage you'll see in that fight. Fix!

 

Let's look at your rage use now. 5 Ultimatum procs, 1 Hs, no Cleaves, 4 Executes. So 120 rage spent on damage. 11 SBlks, 2 SBars. Assuming both SBars used at 60 rage, then 780 rage spent on mitigation. Your logs show you generated 1216 rage. In total, you used 900 rage. This means you wasted 24.6% of your rage generated. You could have afforded 5 more full-rage SBars. Additionally, with 5 ultimatum procs and 4 Incite procs, you had room to use HS/Cleave 17 times for free and you used it only once. HS and Cleave are off the GCD, so there's absolutely no penalty to making full use of your Ultimatums and Incites. Make sure you're doing that!

 

Immerseus Try 22:

Duration: 3:52

One Last Stand and two Shield Walls. So pretty much the same comments on CDs uses as above, but reversed. Two Incite procs, so that looks like two uses of Demo Shout. Make sure you're rotating that in, it's a short CD and good reduction as well as giving you free damage. I'm not seeing Recklessness used at all. 2 uses of ER, still good. 2 hits of Rallying Cry.

 

7 uses of SBlk for an uptime of 18%, so that could probably be higher. 5 uses of SBar, average size of 109k, and overhealing of .6%. The overhealing is just fine, the average size is just too small. You're either using it at low vengeance or at less than 60 rage. You took two Corrosive Blasts and only absorbed 50k, which means you either timed your SBar poorly, stood in something, or it was a healer's absorb.

 

2 Ultimatums, 2 Incites, 1 HS, no Cleaves, no Executes. No rage spent on damage. Assumign all SBars used at 60 rage, then you spent a total of 720 rage on mitigation. You generated 599 rage, which means those SBars were certainly not used at 60 rage. This shows that you used the rage you generated, but it just doesn't seem very effective. Did you change tanking rotation for this try? Your Riposte uptime is really low and it shows in your low rage generation.

 

11/26 Fallen Protectors:

Duration: 4:25

 

1 SW, 1 Reck, 1 ER, 1 (probably) Rallying Cry, 5 Demo Shouts, no LS. Your use of Demo Shout was good. That's all. Keep a mind to your CDs even on farm content.

 

Took Shockwave on this fight? O.o o.O O.o o.O No.

 

Shield Block: 19 uses, 46.2% uptime. Nice, right about where it should be as long as you're rotating in SBar well. But... 3 uses of SBar. You're leaving half of your mitigation out in the cold! It's lonely, give it some attention. Also, the average size is still very low.

 

4 Ultimatums, 5 Incites, 12 Cleaves, no HS, 4 Executes. I'm going to assume all of your Cleaves were used when you had Ult/Incite. Thus, 120 rage spent on damage. 19 uses of SBlk and 3 of SBar, assuming 60 rage as above, then 1320 rage spent on mitigation. You generated 1534 rage. You used 1440 and wasted about 6%. Percent-wise that's not bad, but it's still 94 rage. That's almost a full rage bar, so there's still room to improve on your rage use here. Keep in mind the assumption that those 3 SBars were 60 rage. I'm guessing that they were more like 35ish rage, so you probably had a waste somewhere in the 10% range.

 

Comments: Overall, you're a fairly strong warrior with room for improvement. We all have room for improvement. The categories I assessed you on are the same one I use to evaluate myself. You want to look for effective rotation of both your damage and mitigation CDs, use of procs, size and overhealing of your SBars, number of SBars and what they're being used to mitigate, uptime on SBlk, and rage waste. I see that what you're doing is consistent, which is good. It's easier to fix a consistent error than inconsistent errors all over the board. The main thing that concerns me about your playstyle is your de-emphasis of Sbar. I see this a lot, a looooooot. SBlk is easy. It's easy to spam it and justify the spam with Heavy Repercussions, but it's not right in all cases. Every time you press a mitigation button, you need to do it with thought. Keep in mind what types of damage you're taking and what the size of your SBar would be. Think about how long that Sbar would last and remember that using Sbar with 60 rage is essential to its effectiveness.

 

Gear: I was going to look at your prot gear, but you logged out in Fury. =( I do see that you have Haromm's Frozen Crescent and the parry's not reforged out, so I'm guess that's your tanking weapon? If so, get rid of Dancing Steel and get River's Song ASAP. DS contributes nothing to Riposte and not having it is part of your low rage generation.

 

I noticed in your logs that you have the 4p. Get rid of it if you're avoidance build. It was typically one of your lowest rage-generators, even when you were using Demo Shout often. It's not giving you anything. Having extra rage after a CD means that if you've used your CD well, then you're going to see little benefit from the extra rage. Ideally, you'd take the most damage during DS, so the rage afterward wouldn't help you mitigate that damage and you wouldn't be getting as much rage anyway. The extra Riposte from well-chosen offset pieces would benefit you more.

[Keimorl 3]

Thank you Rage... I'm passing on your info to Teerekks so he can speak with you directly... he has some questions.  And Estar... what can I say... I was hoping for exactly what you gave me.

 

First, since Immersus is a progression fight for me, I think I'm doing an extremely shitty job.   As I mentioned in my post previously, my tendency is to really focus on fight positioning and stuff... especially when a fight is new.   My tanking is secondary, and this is ass backwards.   Like Rage pointed out... tanking should be my priority, and trusting my teammates.  They are trustworthy... it's just an old habit.

 

If I'm not focusing on good tank execution... especially on progression fights, I'm hurting the whole team.  I should only focus on other people doing their jobs after I'm doing my job correctly!!!  Derp!

 

So Immersus is kinda all over the board.  I completely see what you are saying on having a good Sbar for the Corrosive Blasts... that makes basic sense.   I pretty much spam Sblk for Heavy Repercussions (yes... I'm one of them)...  , and don't save much rage for Sbar... so it's the red headed stepchild of my DR abilities.   I assume you are leading me in a direction where I should stop Sblk when I know there's an ability coming in I need Sbar for so I can save 60 rage for a solid Sbar?   I can tell you right now that if I see a big incoming hit and it's up, I pop it... no matter what my rage is at.

 

RE: Shockwave - I took it for Immerseus for add control.   The adds were basically running to our healers so the first thing I did on a tank swap was run over to the back of adds and Swave them.   And for protectors.... I just didn't talent out of it.   We were racing through the next few bosses as fast as we could so we can get a full clear in tonight (since we missed one raid day due to Thanksgiving).  I normally take Dragon Roar... this isn't the first time I've seen you recommend Bladestorm.   Bladestorm on pretty much everything with adds, right?  I guess Bladestorm on all except.... ???

 

RE: Cleave vs. HS - That's a binding issue.   I change the keybind based on the fight... does it have multiple adds or not?  No - HS, Yes - Cleave.   Rookie... I know... old habit.

 

RE: Gear - I have two of Haromm's... one in my Fury set and one I tank with.  The tanking one has River's song and is reforged Expertise -> Dodge.   And I'm not using my 4pc for any particular reason atm.   Looking in my bags I could swap in http://www.wowhead.com/item=103915 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=103790 which seem better for avoidance stats/bonuses.

 

Swapped into my tanking gear so you can take a peek.   Going to swap those pieces and get them set up.  I'm also 25k coins into http://www.wowhead.com/item=103990 as we discussed.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Keimorl

[Estarriol 167]

 

I assume you are leading me in a direction where I should stop Sblk when I know there's an ability coming in I need Sbar for so I can save 60 rage for a solid Sbar?   I can tell you right now that if I see a big incoming hit and it's up, I pop it... no matter what my rage is at.

 

Basically, if you know Corrosive Blast (or another large hit ability) is coming up and you can't guarantee that you'll have 60 rage for the SBar, then you will need to hold that SBlk. The full SBar for the heavy hit is your priority. Furthermore, if you have a heavy hit coming in on a CD, not a strict timer, make sure you have enough rage to put up a second SBar if melee attacks eat your SBar before the heavy hit comes in.

 

 

 

RE: Shockwave - I took it for Immerseus for add control.   The adds were basically running to our healers so the first thing I did on a tank swap was run over to the back of adds and Swave them.   And for protectors.... I just didn't talent out of it.   We were racing through the next few bosses as fast as we could so we can get a full clear in tonight (since we missed one raid day due to Thanksgiving).  I normally take Dragon Roar... this isn't the first time I've seen you recommend Bladestorm.   Bladestorm on pretty much everything with adds, right?  I guess Bladestorm on all except.... ???

 

Since the adds spawn as the boss is getting hit, Bladestorm will actually help you pick them all up, since it will give you continuous AoE over 6s as well as being able to TC on either side. Your DPS should also be helping to keep adds off healers. It's perfectly fine for the DPS to have a few adds on them.

 

Bladestorm is great on pretty much any fight with adds. There are a few exceptions, though. If you're finding that adds are dying before your BS ends, then just take DR. I use BS mostly on Sha of Pride H, Dark Shaman H (tanking Kardris),  Galakras on any difficulty, and on trash. I don't use it on Garrosh because it's only useful for the first phase. I don't use it for Spoils because on heroic there don't tend to be gobs of adds out all at once. I also don't use it for Thok H because there's only one set of adds. I was using it during H Thok progression because that was the point at which my team was dying to bats being up too long.

 

 

RE: Cleave vs. HS - That's a binding issue.   I change the keybind based on the fight... does it have multiple adds or not?  No - HS, Yes - Cleave.   Rookie... I know... old habit.

 

If you can swing it, I'd highly recommend always having both keybound.

 

Your prot set looks solid, I'm just wondering about the two JC stam gems. No dodge/parry option?

[Keimorl 3]

Good call on the JC gems... I have just been so used to using the Stam ones I didn't even think about it.  Swapped them out with parry ones and that netted me a 0.5% parry gain which helps me get closer tot he 2.5:1 parry:dodge ratio I'm looking for.  I'm at 2.3:1 atm.

 

Can you point me to the Simcraft or whathaveyou that outlays why 2.5:1 becomes the optimum at higher gear levels?

 

Based on this thread so far....

- I've straightened out my gear a bit

- I've found I need to focus on my tanking over monitoring fight mechanics a bit more

- I've found I need to be better about changing my T4 talent on a fight-by-fight basis

- I have a better understand of how/when to use Sbar

Edited December 3, 2013 by Keimorl

[Tengenstein 11]

Theck did a lot of Math, and came up with idea we'd want 2-3x as much parry chance  as dodge chance depending on how much dodge 5 we have, the internet then decided it should aim for the average of that because THeck's math is beyond most of them: with this being the graph that that ratios is based on:

 

 

The numbers are a little off since this a rather old graph now , and the exact avoidance formulas have been tightened since Theck created it (and it is for paladins, warriors have slightly different numbers)

[Keimorl 3]

Thank you!

[Estarriol 167]

The warrior graph is more compressed. At 30% dodge, it's closer to around 2.7-2.8, instead of the 3.2-3.3 for pallies. Can't for the life of me find the warrior graph. >.< Thanks for the pally graph though, Tengenstein.