Stuck on Garrosh 10m Normal.

[Tykken 0]

Hi everyone. 

 

I was wondering if someone could take a look at our wipes on Garrosh,

to see how we can progress this guy. 

 

The log consists of 14 wipes. Not every attempt is relevant, because we lost people early on, due to silly mistakes.  

 

I think our best try was around 17-18% in phase2. 

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/naq8qtcw3tyaoxa9/

 

Im not certain if it is a healer issue, dps issue, or simply people dying to the empowered whirlwind mechanics. 

 

Last night we gave him a go, with the best geared players in our guild. 

This is what we think our best raid composition regarding the gear we have atm. 

 

Our issues seems to rise at the end of Phase2 when we start to get empowered whirlwinds. 

 

We agreed to go with 2 healers. Paladin and Resto Druid since they are the best geared ones.  Our enhancement shammy has really good offspec healing gear aswell, but we really want him as dps, as he is our top dps at the moment. 

 

Furthermore, we had 2 hunters, 1 lock, 1 enhancement shammy, 1 rogue, and 1 dps monk. 

 

For tanks we had a warrior and a DK. 

 

We also tried the tactic to stack in entire phase2 and just bursting the axes down to gain more dps time on the boss, since we had 3 melees. 

We discovered a dps increase doing it this way, but on the occasions when we would get Empowered + Axe at the same time, we had ranged to move out so we didnt get both at the same time. This due to the healing getting to intensive if we stayed in.  

 

For the last try, we tried to have the monk go healing instead, since he can dish out some ok dps while healing. 

 

When it goes for our future raid compositions, we also have a decent geared mage and anoter lock, both around 555 ilvl I think. 

 

We also have a 545 disc priest wich we decided to rotate yesterday, since we are confident that 2 man healing is the way to go. Could it be benefical to have him healing instead of the better geared paladin or druid due to the mechanics of the fight and abilites of the priest? (He can also go holy if needed.) 

 

I have a feeling that our 2 man healing composition is not optimal, and that we still are lacking abit dps. 

 

Is there anyone who can take a look at the logs and maybe point us in the right direction? 

 

 

Thanks in advance. 

Edited December 3, 2013 by Tykken

[kitsu 55]

is everyone in range of healers during empowered whirl? you may have to push your comfort zone on how close everyone is when they kill their add. try having healers be about 30 yards from teh boss and then have ranged 30 - 40 yards away and melee 20 - 30. when everyone gets aggro on their add they should work their way towards the boss as they kill it.

 

more gear would definitely make the fight easier. a third heart phase and the resulting empowered mc's make the fight pretty tough. i dunno about heal comp mattering so much. having a tree or a shaman + any other healer is a pretty solid way to go. although my group had a tree dc on him the other day and our remaining healer pretty much one healed the whole fight. the only reason we wiped was mc.

 

empowered mc requires a real interrupt and can be rough for people who arent used to actively coordinating things. overlapping long cd ranged interrupts and not enough dps on mc targets is the real danger in the fight.

[Tengenstein 11]

At a quick glance i see two big issues. people standing in shit and Tanks screwing up.

 

People getting hit by desecrated weapon, and the shadow crash mechanic from Empowered Whirling Corruption (EWC). We handle Desecrated Weapon by having 2 stack points far enpugh apart that when one gets the weapon on it, the other one is just outside the voidzone. All range/healers stack on one mark, the melee should be the tanks, as soon as the  garrosh puts the weapon in the air , the entire ranged group moves to the second marker. We assign one ranged DPS to burn the weapon down so that the first marker will be clear by the time Garrosh throws a weapon at the  second marker (they may need help, especially if a weapon goes down right before you get sucked into the other realm). We pop raid CDs and stay still during the whirling corruptions. We keep with this until Garrosh gains EWC (should happen after the 2nd time you're pulled into the other realm). at which point we have the ranged, healers spread around the centre of the room,  we still have 1(or 2) ranged dealing with the weapons (until they get empowered).  This is mainly to deal with EWC's shadow crash/add spawns. Ideally the tank with aggro will keep Garrosh in the cente of the room, surviving Via CDs, everyone else will move ~40 yards left or right (with a healer) keeping a 10 yard range check  and dodging the shadow crashes.

 

Tanking Issues. Your prot warrior is spending too much rage on Heroic strike, and not enough on Shield Block (he should be looking for 50% uptime minimum), he also isn't using cleave at all, which is terrible considering he looks to be on add pick up duty in phase one. He's using Glyph of incite which is a terrible Glyph. He doesn't neccasarily have to hold the adds in P1, but he needs to make sure they don't much the healers DPS, the more he can Hold the better since Garrosh hits like a truck and the other tank also seems to be having survivability problems.

 

The Blood DK on boss duty in P1 shouldn't be trying to tank all the adds as well as Garrosh if he risk dying to the damage, if he gets a Blood boil proc, sure he can use it but he shouldn't be spending Blood runes on it if he risks pulling the adds off the other tank and dying, your tanks should be working together, not fighting each other for aggro. He needs to learn to respond to Will of the Necropolis procs to use the free Rune tap, it procs when he's on low health and he's just not using the free heal, he should also not be afraid of using blood runes on Rune tap at other times as Will of the Necropolis will also reset rune taps CD, he doesn't appear you be using DRW much either, it's completely free in 5.4, so he really should be using it whenever he has something beating on him. 

 

The hunters should be using Misdirecting on to the tanks on CD. This will help keep the adds bunched up, makes the tanks jobs easier and increase the raids DPS. Misdirect has no focus cost and is off the GCD, if this is too much for your Hunters to do they can literally macro it in to one (or all) their primary shots via an [@targettarget] or [@focus] and forget about it for the rest of time. Hunters have the tools  to never die to aggro, your's occaisionally do becuase they aren't using their class's abilities.

[Tykken 0]

Thank you for inputs.

It doesnt make sense about the tanking, since the warrior was tanking Garrosh all tries, and the DK was tanking the adds.

[kitsu 55]

my group has the exact same tank comp and your warrior is right on par with ours in terms of shield block uptime.

[kitsu 55]

another thing to keep in mind, dont make a big deal of being totally perfect. you can have a couple adds go bad now and then. the important thing is that everyone acts quickly, nails dpsing garrosh, and breaks mc at any cost. it's a barely kill him kind of fight because garrosh is gaining in power as time goes by. p2 is a concern but not an all out race unless youre hitting a third heart phase. p3 is the true race. he will become overwhelmingly powerful in p3 if you give him time. the best kills ive had are ones where the transition from p2 to p3 has everyone chase him to the center and we hero the second he gets to the middle of the room. unlike the transition from p1 to p2, all dps in the p2 - p3 transition counts. so every second of free dps on him is a big help. 

[Tykken 0]

Getting closer. 

 

This is the logs of Sundays raid: 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/33ovf73soojvaz9f/   

 

This is the tactic we are using: 

http://file3.guildlaunch.net/346699/Legends%20Reborn%20-%20Garrosh%20Manual.pdf

 

The guide is written by one of our officers, wich is the DK tank. 

 

The best attempt was the final attempt in our logs. 

We tried with the monk as dps only and some attempts with him healing and dpsing. 

 

The best attempt he was sole dps, also taking care of the axes solo. 

 

Best and last attempt was 11% in phase3, where we failed on one of the empowered mindcontrols. 

 

Is there any improvements you can point out regarding to the log of this raidnight? 

 

One thing I noticed by checking dmg done for each fight, is that melee is alot higher on Garrosh dmg, than ranged. 

Im not sure if the gap is gonna be that huge tough. (Some melees doing around 100mill dmg to him, and ranged doing 20mill dmg the entire encouter.) 

 

For axes, we were most succesfull when we killed them for the first part of phase2, and ignored them for last part of phase 2, where ranged just moved to stack them to the wall and corners. 

 

Most likely he will go down next Sunday.

 

Thanks in advance for anymore useful tips.  

Edited December 10, 2013 by Tykken

[kitsu 55]

damage to garrosh is going to be based on class and fight mechanic rng. the main thing is the mind controls. they're as dangerous at 1% as they are at 11. your ranged may need to figure out how to maximize their cooldowns a bit better. it's a long fight, you're gonna be able to use your 3 min cds 3 times. one near the pull, one just after the first heart and then save one for hero.

 

a clean transition and everyone on him and potting for hero while he sits in the middle and gains power is huge.

 

i wish i would have logged my most recent garrosh kill, we had a mage in there from another raid team in the guild and he was doing very good damage the whole fight. it was actually one of our few zero death kills. it can be tough to keep a group focused on the parts of the fight that keep everyone alive and keep the group wipe free because the parts that offer the most potential for each person to do damage can be very distracting for them.

 

the main thing is that each mc should only require one interrupt and because mc is like a minute apart, there's no excuse for any class with any interrupt not to participate. you will have attempts where interrupts all overlap and you all feel silly, but you have to get some sort of a plan in place for how to avoid overlapping interrupts. i save mine for late in the cast because our melee are usually very fast in getting at least one of them.

 

here is a log of a very sloppy kill during a night were we just couldnt get things right.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/28dzkhp0l9th914j/analyze/dd/source/?s=10597&e=11185&target=277

the dps is not very different from yours

[Estarriol 167]

I'm mostly going to focus on your warrior's  part in this as prot is my particular specialty.

 

50% uptime on SBlk is not necessary in this fight and can actually be detrimental in later phases. During the first phase, SBlk is essential for dealing with the adds. At your warrior's ilvl, he or she should be able to deal with the adds and the boss simultaneously with good use of SBlk and good rotation of CDs. However, if the adds are still up when Warcry goes out, stuns and CDs will be necessary. Make sure he or she knows that if the adds get stunned, he or she will need to take a few steps back or all of the adds will hit him or her simultaneously.

 

During the later phases with the stacking DoT, make sure she or he knows that it is her or his responsibility to deal with the DoT. I'm looking through the logs and on try 4, your warrior has 2 uses of Shield Barrier. That's not good. SBar is essentially for dealing with the DoT damage and keeping the pressure off of the healers. The size of those barriers were good and the overhealing was good as well, now she or he just needs to integrate more of them. That will help with the healing situation immensely.

 

Looking and his or her CD usage, two uses of Shield Wall, two uses of Last Stand, and only one use of Demoralizing Shout. For the length of the fight, I'd expect to see somewhere on the order of 3 Last Stand uses, 4-5 Shield Wall uses, and about 9-10 Demo Shout uses. Especially since he or she is taking Incite. I particularly like that glyph as three free HS/Cleaves per use of Demo Shout is a nice little boost. However, they must be used and not let go to waste. I see that his or her tank cloak procced twice in this attempt. That represents that he or she let him or herself die twice. Better use of Shield Barrier and CDs could prevent that.

 

Looking at talent choices, I see Shockwave and Stormbolt. I dislike both of those choices. Stormbold does atrocious damage for tanks. Its damage is equivalent to slightly more than two Devastates and Devastate hits like a wet noodle. Additionally, it's a waste of a GCD and she or he only used it twice. Bloodbath would serve better. Shockwave is only useful in the first phase and s completely wasted in later phases. Bladestorm would have similar problems. Thus, I'd recommend Dragon Roar. With Vengeance, DR will snap your MCed people out instantly. It helps take down adds in the first phase and also puts out good damage for the rest of the fight.

 

Looking at rage use, he or she had 29 uses of HS, no Cleaves (there should be some Cleaves on adds), 21 Ultimatum procs, and one Incite proc. So 5 of those cost rage. 2 uses of SBar and I'm going to assume they were both used at 60 rage. 47 SBlks. So 3090 rage used total. He or she had 1965 rage gained from Shield Slam, 1940 from Revenge, 1030 from Enrage, 80 from Charge, and 40 from Shout uses. That's a total of 5075 gained, but only 3090 used. Percentage-wise, that's a waste of 39% of his or her rage gained. That 1985 rage could have been used on SBars to help the healers out, HSs to put more damage out, or even some Executes.

 

Also, make sure your warrior is speccing into Disrupting Shout. It's an easy way to interrupt MCs.

[BigC 0]

From a tactical pov, in your guide :

11. Phase 2: Empowered Whirling Corruption

 

I would not have the boss tanked that close, move him back to the middle the further away from the raid he is , the less damage everyone takes. And it makes managing the adds easier believe it or not. also with people out of range of the boss it is more likely they will be focusing the adds and their mc's.

 

Edit- Just a note he only needs to be that far away when, the AOE is about to happen. We simply keep the boss in the middle and have everyone run to the back of the room to deal with those abilities.

Edited December 12, 2013 by BigC

[Stoove 347]

I agree with what Kitsu has been saying about the MC's. On our first kill, dealing properly with those was the thing that kept wiping us. I also really love the phrase;

 

it's a barely kill him kind of fight

 

Because it totally is.

 

With regards to healers, your healer skill is the important factor, so as long as they play optimally you can kill him with any team. Having said that, we've killed him with a Druid+Shaman combo and a Mistweaver+Shaman combo and found it much easier (almost boring) with the Druid.

[Abru 0]

Getting closer. 

 

This is the logs of Sundays raid: 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/33ovf73soojvaz9f/   

 

This is the tactic we are using: 

http://file3.guildlaunch.net/346699/Legends%20Reborn%20-%20Garrosh%20Manual.pdf

 

The guide is written by one of our officers, wich is the DK tank. 

 

The best attempt was the final attempt in our logs. 

We tried with the monk as dps only and some attempts with him healing and dpsing. 

 

The best attempt he was sole dps, also taking care of the axes solo. 

 

Best and last attempt was 11% in phase3, where we failed on one of the empowered mindcontrols. 

 

Is there any improvements you can point out regarding to the log of this raidnight? 

 

One thing I noticed by checking dmg done for each fight, is that melee is alot higher on Garrosh dmg, than ranged. 

Im not sure if the gap is gonna be that huge tough. (Some melees doing around 100mill dmg to him, and ranged doing 20mill dmg the entire encouter.) 

 

For axes, we were most succesfull when we killed them for the first part of phase2, and ignored them for last part of phase 2, where ranged just moved to stack them to the wall and corners. 

 

Most likely he will go down next Sunday.

 

Thanks in advance for anymore useful tips.  

The Melle being htat far back tells me that they are AOE'ing /cleabing when they need to be 100%on boss after first wave of adds.  InCOmbat as a rogue I BFD the first wave and never touch another add other than a frost wlfe teh remainder fot eh fight.  This will help ensure you dont get a 4th wave of adds. in part 1.

[noso 1]

hello everyone,

 

I have a small question regarding Touch of Y’Shaarj. Are damage reduction effects still active on the players that are mind controlled? Like evasion, feint, etc .. Are MC harder to bring to 10k life when those abilites were activited just before the MC ? Also, does the MC activate those if possible or are they just casting touch to applied mc to another player?

 

Kind of the same questions with hot... does a pre-hotted mc player keeps the hot such that it might be harder to bring it down?

 

Thanks in advance

Edited January 20, 2014 by noso

[kitsu 55]

on my ele sham, if i put earthquake down and then get mc, it damages everyone and knocks them down. the mc doesnt seem to cast any abilities though. i raid with a pretty geared tree and ive never seen an mc heal, even though the whole raid is def hotted.

 

in the final phase, the empowered mc seem to have more hp. I'd hit them with everything youve got aside from executes. attacks that take them below zero hp seem to pop back to at least 20% when mc is over.

[drumsmani 47]

Yeah, unlike the MCs on the trash before the Dark Shamans, these don't appear to activate any other ability other than casting more MCs which can grow exponentially if not handled right away.