Wavebringer Kardis tanking

[Typecast 16]

Learned something new. Guess the damage in isn't as bad as I'm thinking. Just need Tuesday to roll around now.

[Oldtrout 7]

Omaric, yes, you need 3 tanks to separate.  Haromm has a debuff that stacks infinitely that ideally should be swapped out at 5 stacks.  I just can't see a Warlock successfully tanking Kardris.  Also, Russians are crazy.  Even if they do it, they're likely severely overgearing the content and doing a 'for fun' type mechanic. 

We've two-tanked on a night when we couldn't get three. It involved tank swaps in and out of the building every 30-40 seconds. It was horrible, slowed dps down a TON, but we got to 10% on one attempt, then died because of something other than the ridiculous tank strat. Although most attempts did result in slimes indoors / ashen walls blocking entrances.

 

It's chaotic but doable. Would advise any group to just bring in a third tank, though.

 

Warlock tanking sounds fun, but I'll probably never be allowed to try it.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Oldtrout

[Fouton 266]

Hah yea that sounds doable but insane. One strat I've always wanted to try was just bring all dps inside with Haromm and have a tank and healer just kite slimes infinitely like bats on Tortos. I don't know how itd work but it sounds like a lot of fun to try.

[Omaric 246]

That actually sounds like it might work, but you would need a tank that could keep them slowed.  A DK with Chilblains would work.  A healing Druid with Mass Entanglement/Ursol's Vortex could go a long way as well.

[Fouton 266]

It could result in too much movement for the healer if they get healing aggro/having to run out of Falling Ash and move away from Tornados, which is my worry. Other than that I don't see why not. It would also make Toxic mist healing inside a lot easier. Might be easy to 2 heal.

 

Edit: (On 10, on 25 maybe it would even be 3 healable)

Edited December 8, 2013 by Fouton

[Silverman 0]

I have a question. How does your raidroster look like? There are only 2 possible ways you wouldn't have a tank. You have just ranges or 1 melee(and this melee is a rogue). Or both of your melees are rogues(assuming the common 2 tanks, 2 mdd, 3/4 rdd and 2/3 healer-setup).

Also imho i don't think, that a 3 tank tactic is an abuse- tactic. As long as it doesn't use some kind of bugs, but uses the INTENDED mechanics in a smart way and the raid finds a way to counteract by any means, its all legit. Even if those tactics weren't initially intended.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Silverman

[Typecast 16]

I have a question. How does your raidroster look like? There are only 2 possible ways you wouldn't have a tank. You have just ranges or 1 melee(and this melee is a rogue). Or both of your melees are rogues(assuming the common 2 tanks, 2 mdd, 3/4 rdd and 2/3 healer-setup).

Also imho i don't think, that a 3 tank tactic is an abuse- tactic. As long as it doesn't use some kind of bugs, but uses the INTENDED mechanics in a smart way and the raid finds a way to counteract by any means, its all legit. Even if those tactics weren't initially intended.

For our guild, there are times where we don't have a player in a capable tank class available, especially with the holiday seasons. My guild in particular is BrM/Prot, Mage/Hunter/Lock/Lock, Disc/Holy. We then fill with whoever shows up out of DK/Warrior/Rogue/Spriest/Rdruid. With finals and the holidays, our DK/Warrior haven't really been available and our warrior has shown up just for this one fight (dealing with a newborn). So I'd like to be able to tank this fight if a) it were possible, i'm down for it, and b) to break up the monotony of playing destro every fight...

As for 2-tank vs 3-tank, it all depends on what your interpretation of out-ranging abilities are. I mean, there are guilds that 2-tank LOS mechanics, the fight is longer, but just as safe as 3-tank out-ranging. I personally think out-ranging is an unintended tactic but hey, if it was an exploit, blizz would have patched it.

As for tanking this fight, I wasn't able to tank last night. Raid leader decided to extend the lockout since we were so close to getting Thok and with a majority of our raid not able to raid the rest of the week for various reasons. Hopefully someone else is trying this though and lets us know how it goes on heroic.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Typecast

[Strife 6]

Quick question, for 10 mans who use 3 tanks do you 2 heal or 3 heal?

 

We started Shamans progression last week. Got them down to 25-35% range pretty consistently where we move them back together and sub 10% a few times.

 

Healers were having issues keeping everyone up at the end though with normal tank damage, toxic mist, falling ash, and toxic stream. We were 2 healing, wasn't sure if people 3 healed and it was worth it taking longer to kill them during execute phase.

 

Also I'm assuming most 3 tank groups still bring them together at 25% when they lust?

Edited December 17, 2013 by Strife

[Fouton 266]

In my 10man we have our strat so that we put 2 tanks, all melee, and 2 healers inside (Toxic Mist hurts). Then the outside group is 1 tank, 1 healer, and ranged dps. I'm sure it's manageable with 2 healers if your healers are strong and you need the dps, but if you can dps it fine with only 4 dps, then you'll be set with 3 healers. As far as bringing them together, we just continue the fight as normal and pop hero when they do, just faceroll through til the end and walk all over it.

 

My group tanks Haromm in their hut, facing the alcoves on each wall. When he casts Ashen Wall, we just up into the alcove and put it as far back as possible, making it unable to hit anyone else in the room, then adjust to a new alcove.

 

Here's the logs to my group's most recent kill, so you can see how our dps/hps normally is so you can tell if you can mimic our method: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4ko8rvlfiom3qd1x/sum/damageDone/?s=6887&e=7330

 

Tanks are: Deathfouton and Cabalzors on Haromm, Gabrish on Kardis. Fermat and Failmarie inside with Haromm, Wylin outside. We placed out healers based on skill and comfort, Wylin and Gabrish work extremely well together so they were paired up, but it also was a fairly suitable class placement as well.

 

My dps is so high as a tank because we keep them all stacked up outside until the first dog is dead and the second is under 20%, then quickly move inside. People need to single target the dogs still, since they really hurt, but it makes for some great cleave by the tank classes that do.

[Typecast 16]

Quick question, for 10 mans who use 3 tanks do you 2 heal or 3 heal?

 

We started Shamans progression last week. Got them down to 25-35% range pretty consistently where we move them back together and sub 10% a few times.

 

Healers were having issues keeping everyone up at the end though with normal tank damage, toxic mist, falling ash, and toxic stream. We were 2 healing, wasn't sure if people 3 healed and it was worth it taking longer to kill them during execute phase.

 

Also I'm assuming most 3 tank groups still bring them together at 25% when they lust?

 

If you are doing the split strat, keep them split the entire fight as the fight really doesn't change.  The point of the strat is for each group to only have to worry about the mechanics of the boss they are with, not all mechanics.  As for comps, we 3 tank and usually 2 heal if our rogue is on, otherwise we just 3 heal to avoid midwintering.  As the fight goes on, the two groups will begin to converge.  Just make sure that wavebringer is never in range of the earthbreaker group and the wavebringer group needs to make sure they are not in range of earthbreaker.  Our wavebringer kite strat goes cages > boss spawn > bank > area entrance bank side > cross the path > innkeeper > cages.  When we hit the last 20%, we skip the boss spawn location in our kite order.  We move as mechanics force us to move (falling ash/tornadoes, ashen wall/tombs).

Edited December 17, 2013 by Typecast

[Strife 6]

If you are doing the split strat, keep them split the entire fight as the fight really doesn't change.  The point of the strat is for each group to only have to worry about the mechanics of the boss they are with, not all mechanics.  As for comps, we 3 tank and usually 2 heal if our rogue is on, otherwise we just 3 heal to avoid midwintering.  As the fight goes on, the two groups will begin to converge.  Just make sure that wavebringer is never in range of the earthbreaker group and the wavebringer group needs to make sure they are not in range of earthbreaker.  Our wavebringer kite strat goes cages > boss spawn > bank > area entrance bank side > cross the path > innkeeper > cages.  When we hit the last 20%, we skip the boss spawn location in our kite order.  We move as mechanics force us to move (falling ash/tornadoes, ashen wall/tombs).

 

Oh also I didn't clarify, but this is heroics. We always kept both together for normals since it was pretty simple without the extra mechanics and higher healing requirements.

 

Maybe merging them is our issue then on heroics though.

 

These are our attempts from Sunday:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k4peklzgkm2imn59/dashboard/?s=703&e=1089

 

Pretty much all the high 5, low 6 minute fights we're when we got them to 25% and merged together. We we're basically trying to burn them by having the ability to cleave up and lust when they lusted.

 

The other warlock was actually a pug so with our DPS DK going 3rd tank I was on the ramp group with Harrom. I glyphed unending resolve, soul link, switched to GrimSup instead of Sac, and the healer said it was really easy with me up there compared to a melee dps DK (we tried a couple attempts with someone bringing in their alt tank DK so we had 1 melee up top but they were having trouble healing him through toxic mist).

 

We have all the mechanics down when they are split and are toxic storm rotation is fine. I really think our main problem was trying to merge everything together at the lust phase. We raid tonight and have the first 5 bosses on farm and IJ should go down within a few attempts since last week was our first kill, so we'll try keeping them split the whole time. Looking at some youtube guides it sounds like 2 healers/2 tanks are at the top with Harrom. Since I was up there as a lock with 1 healer and we weren't really having healing issues I think that is fine. I would actually burn an ember for Ember Tap after things like Falling Ash if I felt the healer needed help, and for overall dps that seems alot better than a 3rd healer if you can get away with it. Between 20% passive damage reduction, the 3% healing from damage from soul link, and Glyphed Healthstones/Cauterize Master/Ember Tap I actually put out a ton of healing on myself looking at logs.

 

Thanks for the advice.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Strife

[Typecast 16]

Oh also I didn't clarify, but this is heroics. We always kept both together for normals since it was pretty simple without the extra mechanics and higher healing requirements.

Maybe merging them is our issue then.

 

These are our attempts from Sunday:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k4peklzgkm2imn59/dashboard/?s=703&e=1089

 

Pretty much all the high 5, low 6 minute fights we're when we got them to 25% and merged together. We we're basically trying to burn them by having cleave up and lust when they lusted.

 

The other warlock was actually a pug so with our DPS DK going 3rd tank I was on the ramp group with Haromm. I actually glyphed unending resolve, soul link, switched to GrimSup instead of Sac, and the healer said it was really easy with me up there compared to a melee dps DK (we tried a couple attempts in the middle with someone bringing in their alt DK so we had 1 melee up top but they were having trouble healing him through toxic mist).

 

We have all the mechanics down when they are split and are toxic storm rotation is fine. I really think our main problem was trying to merge everything together at the lust phase. We raid tonight and have the first 5 bosses and easy farm and IJ should go down within a few attempts so we'll try keeping them split the whole time and possibly 3 healing and see how it goes.

 

Thanks.

 

Yea, for heroic, the healing required doesn't change too much if you keep them split.  For earthbreaker, you only need 4 people for that group.  We typically go 2 tanks, 1 healer, with a rogue or 2nd healer.  All other melee we put on wavebinder.  Since you are really short on classes that have nice damage reductions, you gotta do what you gotta do to get the kill.  If you are on wavebinder or that other lock comes back with you guys, make sure your raid is allowing the locks to havoc from oozes to boss and you guys should make an effort to do it.  When you reach sub-20% on wavebinder, try to havoc shadowburn adds to the boss when you are not ember capped and shadowburn the boss when you are ember capped (so you aren't wasting embers from shadowburn returns).

 

I also found it weird that your disc priest was on earthbreaker (maybe your resto druid sucks at tombs).  PW:Shield as iron prison is about to expire will prevent anyone from ever dying if they don't personal.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Typecast

[Strife 6]

For earthbreaker, you only need 4 people for that group.  We typically go 2 tanks, 1 healer, rogue/2nd healer.  All other melee we put on the wavebinder***.  Since you are really short on classes that have nice damage reductions, you gotta do what you gotta do to get the kill.  If you are on wavebinder or that other lock comes back with you guys, make sure your raid is allowing the locks to havoc from oozes to boss and you guys should make an effort to do it.  When you reach sub-20% on wavebinder, try to havoc shadowburn adds to the boss when you are not ember capped and shadowburn the boss when you are ember capped (so you aren't wasting embers from shadowburn returns).

 

I also found it weird that your disc priest was on earthbreaker (maybe your resto druid sucks at tombs).  PW:Shield as iron prison is about to expire will prevent anyone from ever dying if they don't personal.

 

Yea we only had 4 people for earthbreaker, 2 tanks, me on lock, and resto druid. I went in that group because they said when I was up there they had no healing issues and barely had to heal me which let us 2 heal the fight. When we tried with a dps DK they were having healing issues.

 

The other group was our disc priest, warrior tank, and the other 3 RDPS on wavebringer. Disc was nice for the shields for iron prison.

 

You're right we did have the resto on wavebringer at first which was dumb, if you look at our last few fights we switched it up and it was alot better. In general he was dying alot and I had to pretty much start calling out everything for my top group so people wouldn't tunnel.

 

Obviously I'm going to miss out on DPS being in the top group because I'm not able to havoc cleave and get tons of embers from RoF during all the ooze phases, but I think only going 2 healers made up for it. This week we probably won't have the other lock and have been looking for a rogue to fill out our last MDPS spot (we had a enhance shaman who just left on vacation for a month) which means I'll get to go back to the bottom group.

 

I think we have it if we don't try to merge, gonna try that this week.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Strife

[Exolios 0]

Hey,

 

Not sure if it still matters :)

 

But this boss is defo tankable by a warlock :)

I've done it on heroic.

 

Not sure if the setup i used is the best, But i had np with it and tanking was quite easy :)

 

Glyph's:

Demon Hunting ofc

Siphon Life for that bit extra healing.

And Drain Life, Needed :)

 

Talents:

Harvest Life

Mortal Coil

Soul Link

Burning Rush (does not really matter)

Sacrifice

Archimonde's Darkness

 

Made a special head for tanking with the legendary tanking Gem.

 

You could help yourself with special Trinkets as well to tank.

But i just used my dps trinkets. (Procs will increase your healing with Drain Life)

Got about 1,1 mil health with everything like this. (Stam flask & Stam food)

 

Then the fight.

Had 1 healer healing the 2 tanks away from the raid.

And a Paladin healer healing the raid and myself.

 

At the start i just use my dots and Hand of Gul'dan

Then make sure Demonic Slashes are always on CD.

This is needed for your Demonic Fury.
If you have max Demonic Fury and cant spend it on Fury Ward, i use Soul Fire for some extra dps.

Other then that i spam spam spam Drain Life :)

For me it heals about 74k health per tick and it really feels like it helps the healers

a lot.

Once the boss gains the Falling Ash ability. Watch out that you have Fury Ward off CD if both a Falling Ash explodes and you have the Iron Prison debuff almost going off.

I always use a Fury Ward on Falling Ash and Iron Prison.

After the boss summoned all the little adds I've noticed he always does a Froststorm Bolt, so if i could spare, i always use a Fury Ward right after the adds soak that Bolt.

 

Iron Prison:

This is really easy to deal with as a warlock tank, Just use Fury Ward as its about to explode. That seems to really reduce loads of the damage taken.

 

With us, because the healer also needs to deal with raid healing etc.

You can get dangerous periods.

That's when you want to use Mortal Coil, Unending Resolve and Shadow Bulwark as your defensive CD's

(At this time i do think you could swap out glyph Siphon Life for maybe Unending Resolve Glyph. But it went fine to just use Siphon Life)

 

Froststorm Bolt:

Boss casts this a lot, Just found myself eventually getting into a rithm that i used Drain Life When he casts it so i get extra healing. 

 

Extra's:

Carrion Swarm pushes the little adds away. If they get to close or go somewhere that is not preferred you can push them away, found it quite handy at times.

 

Immolation Aura while running near the adds makes sure they come for you and does damage on them as well!, Do watch out your not to close. And maybe stop doing this when Falling Ash starts, as it drains your much needed Demonic Fury. 

 

Some Negatives about Warlock tanking I've seen.

- His melee hits seem to be able to crit, sometimes resulting in a bigger hit. (Though nothing too big.)

- Low dps, I'm not sure if its just me, but i don't seem to do a whole lot of dps during this fight.

As a warlock tank we ofc don't get Vengeance and having to cast Drain life a lot does not help.

 

I hope this was still of any use to anyone :)

Vote for warlock tanks! :P

 

Regards,

Exolios

[Lockybalboa 618]

Vote for warlock tanks!

 

No.

 

Grats though.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Thank god they removed the DA glyph in WoD.

[Exolios 0]

haha so much hate

Why not a ranged tank? makes for something new

Or change it so that warlock pets can REALLY tank

Makes for something new (i like saying that).

 

"The warlock channels his energy into his pet making it stronger and giving him monk tanking ability's and gaining control over it"

Edited September 17, 2014 by Exolios

[Zagam 1,982]

Instead of pushing for new things, I'd like them to fix the things that are currently broken.