wow Big Azerite Trait Tuning - September 17th

[Starym 3,800]

 

Here comes the big Azerite trait tuning pass mentioned in the AMA, with some big changes coming to almost all classes. Warlocks get the most changes, as Demon Hunters, Paladins and Priests get none.

September 17 (source)

As mentioned in the Reddit AMA last Friday, we’re working on balance tuning for Azerite Armor traits. We’re planning to make the following changes during this week’s maintenance period. Note that there are more changes already in the works; this is just a first pass, focused on bringing some of the biggest outliers up (or down) to more acceptable levels.

General

• Archive of the Titans: Primary stat bonus increased by 20%
• Laser Matrix: Damage reduced by 30%
• Thunderous Blast: Damage reduced by 35%

Death Knight

• (Frost) Frozen Tempest: Damage increased by 100%

Druid

• (Feral) Blood Mist: Damage increased by 125%

Hunter

• (Beast Mastery) Feeding Frenzy: Damage increased by 400%
• (Marksmanship) Arcane Flurry: Duration increased to 10 seconds, damage reduced by 45%

Mage

• (Arcane) Brain Storm: Duration increased to 30 seconds, Intellect bonus reduced by 75%
• (Fire) Firemind: Intellect bonus increased by 30%

Monk

• (Windwalker) Iron Fists: Required targets reduced to 3
• (Windwalker) Swift Roundhouse: Damage bonus reduced by 55%

Rogue

• (Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%

Shaman

• (Elemental/Enhancement) Natural Harmony: Secondary stat bonuses increased by 40%

Warlock

• (Affliction) Sudden Onset: Damage bonus reduced by 30%
• (Demonology) Demonic Meteor: Damage increased by 200%
• (Destruction) Flashpoint: Duration increased to 10 seconds, Haste bonus increased by 25%

Warrior

• (Fury) Simmering Rage: Damage increased by 35%

[corbish 1]

1st week rip outlaw, 2nd week rip assasination... ty blizz...

[dartbodman 64]

Maybe it's just me but I feel like when you're at this stage of existence and abilities are getting 400% modifications in a maintenance update, that's not a good sign.

[tkioz 229]

Yay... nerfs... -.-

No news on any frost mage traits that are utterly garbage and below almost every generic trait... Oh and hey all that time we spent farming Thunderous Blast? Wasted.

[DasBigHippo 14]

14 minutes ago, tkioz said:

Yay... nerfs... -.-

No news on any frost mage traits that are utterly garbage and below almost every generic trait... Oh and hey all that time we spent farming Thunderous Blast? Wasted.

That is kinda your fault. When an Trait is pretty much the best thing for every class and every spec, you should have know it was gonna get nerfed. It was so clear Thunderous Blast was gonna get hit.

[Raelyn 17]

Oof. My ret pala takes a big hit from 2 out of 3 of those. Oh well. I did think laser matrix was pretty good, so not entirely unexpected - although 40% is pretty huge. 

Ah well.

[tkioz 229]

1 hour ago, DasBigHippo said:

That is kinda your fault. When an Trait is pretty much the best thing for every class and every spec, you should have know it was gonna get nerfed. It was so clear Thunderous Blast was gonna get hit.

While I knew it was going to get nerfed, anyone with any sense knew that, we had zero idea of how much, and it didn't stop it being the best trait while it was live, which meant having to farm it to be competitive.

It is however not my fault, nor it is anyone else's fault who farmed it. It is Blizzard's fault that the traits went live in such a terribly unbalanced state. The fact that traits are needing nerfs is never player's fault, it is the developer's faults for not doing their job.

Anyone using SimC could have told you which traits were good and which were garbage... Oh you know people like Blizzard developers who have openly said in the past they use SimC themselves.

Example top 10 ST Frost Mage traits are all generic traits, the 11th is a Frost Mage trait, next 6 generic again, then we get back into the spec specific traits. That should never have reached live servers in such a state. It's complete garbage.

It also completely invalidates the Azerite system, you need to target which bits you are going for, you made to lock them down (which thankfully we can change, but originally we weren't going to be able to do), and then you would have a chosen system. Instead with these rolling buffs and nerfs you can't make meaningful choices because the underlying numbers are constantly changing.

Considering the Azerite system is the flagship progression system for an entire expansion the state of it is completely pathetic.

Fine tuning is expected early on, but fine tuning is buffing or nerfing by 5%, maybe 10% at most, but nerfing by 40% and buffing by 400%? That shows how poorly implemented it was.

Edited September 18, 2018 by tkioz

[Aegrotat 80]

26 minutes ago, tkioz said:

While I knew it was going to get nerfed, anyone with any sense knew that, we had zero idea of how much, and it didn't stop it being the best trait while it was live, which meant having to farm it to be competitive.

It is however not my fault, nor it is anyone else's fault who farmed it. It is Blizzard's fault that the traits went live in such a terribly unbalanced state. The fact that traits are needing nerfs is never player's fault, it is the developer's faults for not doing their job.

Anyone using SimC could have told you which traits were good and which were garbage... Oh you know people like Blizzard developers who have openly said in the past they use SimC themselves.

Example top 10 ST Frost Mage traits are all generic traits, the 11th is a Frost Mage trait, next 6 generic again, then we get back into the spec specific traits. That should never have reached live servers in such a state. It's complete garbage.

It also completely invalidates the Azerite system, you need to target which bits you are going for, you made to lock them down (which thankfully we can change, but originally we weren't going to be able to do), and then you would have a chosen system. Instead with these rolling buffs and nerfs you can't make meaningful choices because the underlying numbers are constantly changing.

Considering the Azerite system is the flagship progression system for an entire expansion the state of it is completely pathetic.

Fine tuning is expected early on, but fine tuning is buffing or nerfing by 5%, maybe 10% at most, but nerfing by 40% and buffing by 400%? That shows how poorly implemented it was.

It... kinda is peoples fault if they spent all their time farming for it when it's obvious it'd get nerfed. Did Blizz overtune it? sure, but they didn't force anyone to farm for it. It's so funny though to see people complain that some traits are "so hilariously good while others are so bad" then complain when the overtuned ones get nerfed, especially with all the stuff I've seen about how "thunderous blast is a necessity" or how it's so so far ahead of the others... ya it makes sense to nerf it and not just buff all others to it's level. That's a power creep that they clearly don't want.

No one is saying it's the players fault it's getting nerfed, just that it's a persons fault if they decide to spend their time farming for it, when it should be obvious that it's going to get nerfed. Blizz isn't nerfing it because "well too many people are using it" but because it's clearly performing a lot harder than anticipated. Which btw, is very hard to predict especially when beta testers won't always tell blizz something is very strong. Hell, people may not even have realized it was so strong early enough.

[cerberar 2]

5 hours ago, Starym said:

 

Here comes the big Azerite trait tuning pass mentioned in the AMA, with some big changes coming to almost all classes. Warlocks get the most changes, as Demon Hunters, Paladins and Priests get none.

Monk

• (Windwalker) Iron Fists: Required targets reduced to 3
• (Windwalker) Swift Roundhouse: Damage bonus reduced by 55%

Great, we already were middle of the pack (if you can make good use of TOK), now we get a massive dps loss with SR nerfed and a shitty compensation on an trait that even if the conditions are met, isnt that great. While it was clear that the trait is way to strong, they are just so fckin lazy with almost everything this expansion

[Lawrenz 105]

3 hours ago, dartbodman said:

Maybe it's just me but I feel like when you're at this stage of existence and abilities are getting 400% modifications in a maintenance update, that's not a good sign.

you are overexaggurating here a bit, since the abilities that have those kind of high numbers, have their damage effect as and additional side effect for something else. (feeding frenzy increasing the duration for a fixed amount, and demonic meteor giving a chance to refund shards.) I would say it is not surprising if those traits have masively undertuned damage numbers, because they hoped the more interesting effect they have, could be enough to justify picking the trait.

And as always there are people, crying about nerfs, for things that were way stronger than the alternatives, ignoring the fact that this kills any variety, if you have to pick those traits. They should have the data, and if they nerf that trait so heavy, maybe it gets in line with others, and you can try around again. yay(?).

I am not satisfied with those changes as well, but i will try them out first, and give feedback in the official forums, afterwards.

[Thicondius 1]

wow destroy a class in 2 week gg blizz, 40% nerf to rogue and buff hunter ... again -.-

[Lawrenz 105]

16 minutes ago, Thicondius said:

wow destroy a class in 2 week gg blizz, 40% nerf to rogue and buff hunter ... again -.-

As i stated in my previous comment, the damage bonus on many of those traits are paired with a special effect that does something else, to alter the gameplay. And those effects are probably as well the primary focus of those traits.

I am absolutely not experienced in the gameplay, or the traits, of a rogue, but as it seems to me, getting the additional two combopoint of the effect is a huge thing compared to those tiny 65 bonus damage. reducing that damage by 40% doesnt make the ability 40% worse... if anything this damage adjustment, will probably be a very low single digit percentage of nerf, since what will do 26 less damage (if you use the skill out of stealth) for an overall fight? ...

[tkioz 229]

2 hours ago, Aegrotat said:

It... kinda is peoples fault if they spent all their time farming for it when it's obvious it'd get nerfed. Did Blizz overtune it? sure, but they didn't force anyone to farm for it. It's so funny though to see people complain that some traits are "so hilariously good while others are so bad" then complain when the overtuned ones get nerfed, especially with all the stuff I've seen about how "thunderous blast is a necessity" or how it's so so far ahead of the others... ya it makes sense to nerf it and not just buff all others to it's level. That's a power creep that they clearly don't want.

No one is saying it's the players fault it's getting nerfed, just that it's a persons fault if they decide to spend their time farming for it, when it should be obvious that it's going to get nerfed. Blizz isn't nerfing it because "well too many people are using it" but because it's clearly performing a lot harder than anticipated. Which btw, is very hard to predict especially when beta testers won't always tell blizz something is very strong. Hell, people may not even have realized it was so strong early enough.

So you obviously didn't read my post at all and are instead sticking to your party line. Players should not be punished for playing the game that Blizzard puts out, nor should they be punished for seeking to make their characters as strong as possible, especially considering how inconsistent Blizzard has been about 'overpowered' or 'overtuned' abilities, items, etc. in the past. Take the Arcanocrystal, Draught of Souls, and Whispers in the Dark trinkets from the last expansion that were incredibly powerful, to the point where they were better than items two full tiers and upwards of fifty item levels higher than them.

People were still farming them during Antorus because despite being obvious outliers and contenders for a nerf they were. Yet a similarly overpowered trinket, Convergence of Fates, was nerfed less than a day (for WW/Ret) the raid was released. Oh two of the trinkets were nerfed eventually, but it was well well passed any reasonable time frame. Hell they had to nerf Whispers in BFA.

Those are just a few examples of the top of my head of incredibly inconsistent behaviour on the part of the developers.

So it's all well and good to so say 'you should have known better', but really? Should we? Should we as players need to be able to see the future and read minds to determine if the effort we put into our characters is going to invalidated with the stroke of a key?

If instead they had brought the other abilities up to the same level as as Thunderous Blast it would have been fine, in fact better, because as anyone can tell you nerfs are almost never welcomed by players, but buffs almost always are.

As to your excuse about beta testers... Excuse me? I know for a fact that many of these traits were reported, repeatedly, to Blizzard for under preforming because I was one of the people doing the reporting. I never got any reply, no one else I spoke to did either.

There are many many bugs and issues in BFA that were reported on Beta that made it to live, so again, do not blame the player base for the failures of the developers.

[Hypersonic 119]

8 hours ago, Starym said:

• Laser Matrix: Damage reduced by 30%
• Thunderous Blast: Damage reduced by 35%

 

8 hours ago, Starym said:

Rogue

• (Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%

Seriously?!?!?! I changed to Assa due Outlaw nerf and after 1-1.5 week massive farming of the new gear for it now they NERF ALL FREAKING MAIN TRAITS?! This is ffffff ridiculous. I can't believe it, changing game this radically every week total ruin it.. one more like this and I swear uninstall it and Blizz can go to..

[Hypersonic 119]

5 hours ago, corbish said:

1st week rip outlaw, 2nd week rip assasination... ty blizz...

Yeah, slowly I'll reroll to feral druid, at least that never get a nerf...

[FOTW 0]

1 hour ago, Hypersonic said:

 

Seriously?!?!?! I changed to Assa due Outlaw nerf and after 1-1.5 week massive farming of the new gear for it now they NERF ALL FREAKING MAIN TRAITS?! This is ffffff ridiculous. I can't believe it, changing game this radically every week total ruin it.. one more like this and I swear uninstall it and Blizz can go to..

oh look the fotw player is crying ? pls leave the game 

[Hypersonic 119]

43 minutes ago, FOTW said:

oh look the fotw player is crying ? pls leave the game 

You must be a plenty of time to create an account only just to start flaming. 

[Seksi 208]

When the "proper" way to kill Zul is to bring 5+ rogues and they show up just about everywhere, nerfs are expected :)

[Cugehock 0]

42 minutes ago, Hypersonic said:

You must be a plenty of time to create an account only just to start flaming. 

TBH you do cry over a class that is far too over powered at this moment, even big guild keep their raids with 5 rogues so yeah this was bound to happen.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Cugehock

[quelyn 3]

6 hours ago, Aegrotat said:

It... kinda is peoples fault if they spent all their time farming for it when it's obvious it'd get nerfed. Did Blizz overtune it? sure, but they didn't force anyone to farm for it. It's so funny though to see people complain that some traits are "so hilariously good while others are so bad" then complain when the overtuned ones get nerfed, especially with all the stuff I've seen about how "thunderous blast is a necessity" or how it's so so far ahead of the others... ya it makes sense to nerf it and not just buff all others to it's level. That's a power creep that they clearly don't want.

No one is saying it's the players fault it's getting nerfed, just that it's a persons fault if they decide to spend their time farming for it, when it should be obvious that it's going to get nerfed. Blizz isn't nerfing it because "well too many people are using it" but because it's clearly performing a lot harder than anticipated. Which btw, is very hard to predict especially when beta testers won't always tell blizz something is very strong. Hell, people may not even have realized it was so strong early enough.

You sound like a casual that only does LFR with that attitude.  The servers are live, not in beta so we should not be paying to test shit that needs nerfed / buffed

[Hypersonic 119]

1 hour ago, Seksi said:

When the "proper" way to kill Zul is to bring 5+ rogues and they show up just about everywhere, nerfs are expected ?

Yeah as rogue the man can expect but not this is the biggest problem. The real problem is they force people to farm different gear in every week. And as dps you need to do maximum output (especiel if raiding and do m+) and for this need to use the actual most powerful stuffs,

[Hypersonic 119]

1 hour ago, FOTW said:

you cry in every post when a op trait is nerfed, ged gud scrub ?

Deyada, are you?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Hypersonic

[Sholto 32]

Maybe blizz just took a look at Blood Mallet, since they don't seem to do any testing of these traits at all.  Because it's pretty clear that either they don't know how the mechanics work or they purposely created so many traits to mess with players.  Because it's quite a spectrum from good traits to absolute, worthless garbage.  And unless you reference a theorycrafting site you have no idea if something is actually a buff or a nerf when you get a piece of gear.

[Dust 0]

I love seeing people complain about a busted overpowered spec that is one of the top damage/healing get nerfed, and then complain about one of the worst specs in the game get a buff. Then say it breaking the game? get fucking real guys...

First, you know Thunderous Blast was getting nerfed, and you didnt KEEP ALL THE AZERITE ARMOR YOU GOT JUST IN CASE THIS WOULD HAPPEN LIKE EVERYONE WAS TELLING YOU? your fault.

I play affliction warlock, i am happy to see affliction get nerfs, i shouldnt be able to do 2k more damage than someone that is 15 ilvls higher than me.

Rogue nerfs were expected, they are one of the best classes right now in all specs, they have their strength and weaknesses, sub for burst, assa for sustain, and outlaw for cleave, thats what they are intending to do for the class.

BM hunter buff, they needed that. BM has a very baseline damage, not very high and very low, meaning that you can play the spec the best to your capability, but thats only going to be around 2-3 dps change as if someone just picked up the spec and went into a raid. 400% to Feeding Frenzy needed for BM to become good in the damage charts and compete with survivability, which is the highest damage hunter spec by a lot.

Learn what is good for the game and how balancing works for all specs, not just the one you play. just cause your spec that you play got nerfed doesnt mean you are suddenly going to outcasted for playing a certain spec. it just means that you are not going to be over all the other dps by a mile and will be doing damage (or healing) around everyone else.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Dust