wow Azerite Gear Feedback: September 27th

[Tarazet 144]

Just now, CorneliusBrutus said:

I am just constantly surprised at WoW players. I had thought anyone upon seeing the Azerite gear system's workings, would inevitably come to the conclusion "oh, if I want to play multiple roles extremely optimally, it would be a good idea to keep a dedicated set of these 3 pieces for that specific thing". Apparently that hasn't been the case. Reforging costs are meant to help guide you to this conclusion ("well this isn't something I should do often"), but apparently people are just didn't get that hint and are now outraged. Reforging has always been an "oops I picked the wrong thing" or "I'd like to try a new thing" button.

Speaking for myself, I have tons of 340 pieces to choose from, easily 1 for every spec with variations, and I don't have to reforge anything. 355? I have a grand total of one piece and that's because I purchased it from the Champions of Azeroth vendor. Granted that I've been unlucky, but my situation is not exceptional. Since I only have the one piece, I had to make a decision not to min-max, but instead to choose the "catch-all" traits on it to be OK for all the content I do, because I don't want to have to pay gold to reforge it constantly. If I did want to min-max, the system in place punishes me excessively for doing so. And now they are stating that if anything, they would go even further in that direction if people were deciding to min-max anyway.

The literal sea of 340 pieces that any player can get from a variety of sources probably set up unreasonable expectations as well.

[Ancalagon 35]

2 hours ago, CorneliusBrutus said:

See my above reply to another post. It is not inaccurate to say "carrying around an entire set of new gear isn't a positive experience for a lot of players", and also that players who want to excel in multiple situations should expect to carry around a few extra pieces. You can't min-max without some effort, dude. The point of Azerite gear is to condense the gear swapping into a 3-piece set to minimize the amount of stuff the players are tracking and keeping in their bags. And if it's too much trouble for you, then you can still perform at a perfectly acceptable level without the optimal traits chosen, because of how those gear pieces are still giving you piles of stats. 90% of the "problems" with the Azerite gear is player perception (and some Blizzard communication errors).

True, and I don't disagree - I'm someone who doesn't mind putting forth the effort.  However, when half of your bags are full of 3 different sets of tank gear, 2 sets of healing gear, 2 sets of PvP gear, and an 2-3 sets of DPS gear (Azerite, trinkets, rings, weapons, shields) you have to agree that things are a bit ridiculous.  It becomes "too much trouble" when you're a progression player who enjoys min/maxing to push M+ keys and mythic raid bosses.  I know that my concerns are not the concerns of the casual player, but that doesn't mean that they are not concerns.

[CorneliusBrutus 6]

2 minutes ago, Tarazet said:

Speaking for myself, I have tons of 340 pieces to choose from, easily 1 for every spec with variations, and I don't have to reforge anything. 355? I have a grand total of one piece and that's because I purchased it from the Champions of Azeroth vendor. Granted that I've been unlucky, but my situation is not exceptional. Since I only have the one piece, I had to make a decision not to min-max, but instead to choose the "catch-all" traits on it to be OK for all the content I do, because I don't want to have to pay gold to reforge it constantly. If I did want to min-max, the system in place punishes me excessively for doing so. And now they are stating that if anything, they would go even further in that direction if people were deciding to min-max anyway.

The literal sea of 340 pieces that any player can get from a variety of sources probably set up unreasonable expectations as well.

I think that's totally possible, and fair. I think the intended behavior is that you keep using the 355 regardless, and can either use the catch-all traits, or whichever fits your most-used spec, then getting a new 355 piece is exciting because you have these new options you didn't have before. Unlike before, you would loot a 355, you already have a 355 in that slot: well that was anti-climatic. I'm not going to defend the system across the board, but so much of the outrage is due to misinterpretations and, on Blizzard's end, miscommunications.

[CorneliusBrutus 6]

3 minutes ago, Ancalagon said:

True, and I don't disagree - I'm someone who doesn't mind putting forth the effort.  However, when half of your bags are full of 3 different sets of tank gear, 2 sets of healing gear, 2 sets of PvP gear, and an 2-3 sets of DPS gear (Azerite, trinkets, rings, weapons, shields) you have to agree that things are a bit ridiculous.  It becomes "too much trouble" when you're a progression player who enjoys min/maxing to push M+ keys and mythic raid bosses.  I know that my concerns are not the concerns of the casual player, but that doesn't mean that they are not concerns.

Curious -- why do you have 2 sets of healing gear? Do you have different for M+ and raiding? Is that common across many specs? The top end is probably a bit too far in the direction of gear set min-maxing than intended. The existence of different stat priorities for M+ vs raids may have been a variable that compounds that too much, unlike just having simple "PvE/PvP" sets.

[Tarazet 144]

1 minute ago, CorneliusBrutus said:

Curious -- why do you have 2 sets of healing gear? Do you have different for M+ and raiding? Is that common across many specs? The top end is probably a bit too far in the direction of gear set min-maxing than intended. The existence of different stat priorities for M+ vs raids may have been a variable that compounds that too much, unlike just having simple "PvE/PvP" sets.

All specs have dramatically different gear requirements for healing M+ vs. raids - I think even more so than DPS. You use a completely different set of talents, different spells.. and the secondary stat priority shifts along with those changes.

[Hypersonic 119]

13 minutes ago, CorneliusBrutus said:

Curious -- why do you have 2 sets of healing gear? Do you have different for M+ and raiding? Is that common across many specs? The top end is probably a bit too far in the direction of gear set min-maxing than intended. The existence of different stat priorities for M+ vs raids may have been a variable that compounds that too much, unlike just having simple "PvE/PvP" sets.

Common? Even as dps and rogue I use 7 gear sets. Of course need a different sets for M+ and raiding and even in that for single or aoe and different talents. Sim every single one if you get new item is just so much "fun". Plus you need for almost every single build other azerite pieces or you need to reforge them at every swap (it's so cool when you should change in raid and can't).

Edited September 27, 2018 by Hypersonic

[thurk 52]

18 hours ago, Stan said:

The point about traits being "useless and uninteresting" is interesting considering that you also make the point of "every gear change requires simming." These two points are kind of at odds with each other.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem.  Traits can be both inscrutable and uninteresting.  (Caveat, I do think "useless" is the wrong word.  They aren't ineffectual, they just don't have an impact on gameplay.)

The traits we liked in legion are the ones that impacted your rotation.  In Legion launch, then again at ToS, there were traits that fundamentally changed how you played your spec - almost always for the better.

Having to sim everything is a symptom of them being badly described ("X has a chance to Y"); feeling like the traits are boring is a result of them all being random procs that you can't plan or react to.

[Yridaa 490]

4 hours ago, thurk said:

Having to sim everything is a symptom of them being badly described ("X has a chance to Y"); feeling like the traits are boring is a result of them all being random procs that you can't plan or react to.

This was exactly what I said but the person liking your post is the same one that criticized me for saying so. I don't agree that his point of criticism was that there was only one thing Blizzard didn't anticipate correctly.

 

A lot of things changed and are changing due to unexpected results or feedback. Surely, the "lets make it simple" statement won't be part of that however, as it's just 14 years of obscure text that we have to sim to know.

 

And no, some encounters are impossible if you don't min/max that would otherwise be possible. Of course, we're talking mythic raid progression. It's exactly what @Tarazet said as well, they claim to do one thing but do something else. If at least they'd agree or at least communicate clearly "I'll talk with them in a few days, we'll see" - 3 months later. It can take months for something fundamentally unbalanced or broken (I'm going to provide one of the worst offenders here: 20 second complete CC immunity in PVP, took ~4 months to "rebalance"?)

 

No, Blizzard anticipate a lot of things incorrectly.

[Baguettson 31]

12 hours ago, CorneliusBrutus said:

I am just constantly surprised at WoW players. I had thought anyone upon seeing the Azerite gear system's workings, would inevitably come to the conclusion "oh, if I want to play multiple roles extremely optimally, it would be a good idea to keep a dedicated set of these 3 pieces for that specific thing". Apparently that hasn't been the case. Reforging costs are meant to help guide you to this conclusion ("well this isn't something I should do often"), but apparently people are just didn't get that hint and are now outraged. Reforging has always been an "oops I picked the wrong thing" or "I'd like to try a new thing" button.

Yes it is, and that's why people are pissed, because azerite armor is super hard to get over 340 ilvl (and even harder with the right traits), making constant reforging crucial for anyone who wanna play multiple roles.

EDIT: not hard, just fucking totally random

Edited September 28, 2018 by Baguettson

[Kurosu 58]

17 hours ago, Yridaa said:

 

You two got off on the wrong foot here. tkioz was being cynical towards Blizzard in his original post. I believe Kurosu interpreted it as if tkioz was in agreement with Blizzard here.

 

You're both on the same side here, the way I'm reading it at least.

Indeed I thought he was supporting blizzard.

[PatrickHenry 293]

i don think this is just a 'take it and like it' scenario, at all.

He acknowledged no fewer than 3 times there are things they are either actively working on or at least talking bout changing.  At least a little.

Including things that are just not fun, ie his "bit of a downer" comment.  

--- with regard to:  "OH NO I HAVE TO PAY TO REFORGE, this sucks!"---

Well, if it were expansions prior you would be FORCED to get totally different gear for different situations.  Especially if youre talking about MinMaxing.

Edited September 28, 2018 by PatrickHenry

[Tarazet 144]

5 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

i don think this is just a 'take it and like it' scenario, at all.

He acknowledged no fewer than 3 times there are things they are either actively working on or at least talking bout changing.  At least a little.

Including things that are just not fun, ie his "bit of a downer" comment.  

--- with regard to:  "OH NO I HAVE TO PAY TO REFORGE, this sucks!"---

Well, if it were expansions prior you would be FORCED to get totally different gear for different situations.  Especially if youre talking about MinMaxing.

In the past, the best gear has typically dropped as a result of clearing the content. Now, you can spend hours clearing a Mythic +15, which is among the most difficult content available, and you have literally zero chance of getting any of the powerful Azerite gear. The chances of getting it from the weekly chest are miniscule.

It's either raid Heroic/Mythic, or grind your balls off in PvP to the point of reaching 2000+ rating. They've left the best new mode of content they've introduced in years in the dust.

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 9/28/2018 at 3:19 PM, Tarazet said:

The chances of getting it from the weekly chest are miniscule.

Just like they were the same for clearing content.  You get one per week.  you get it or you dont.

Less possible now, but still there.  Everyone also has the same chances to do so.  

Does luck play a part?  Absolutely.  But at least it cannot WF/TF, meaning youre only searching for the M0 level, or a N/H level.  and if you win the lottery with a M+ quality one then so be it, but even planning on that is pretty folly.  I'd personally look at it like a WF/TF.  If I get it, great.

I dislike the system, this is true.  This being one of the reasons, even.  But I have yet to find it some game-breaking issue, as opposed to say 20+ item level difference being a downgrade simply because the traits require higher HoA level than you possess, making the other lower one better.  THAT is absurd.

Edited October 1, 2018 by PatrickHenry

[Dirtytactics 0]

I would honestly love to be able and complain about azerite traits but in order to do that I would have to be able to see a piece of azerite gear drop never received one from my m+ weekly chest and haven’t had an emissary azerite cache in 2 weeks