Ret Raid Performance

[Atrais 38]

Looking to finish level my Retribution Paladin after capping my main each week and I was curious what I can expect in terms of raid performance.  The charts seem to indicate Ret is middle of the pack and I know they bring a kit full of utility, but I'd like to get the Ret community's take on the current state of Ret raiding.

 

Can you give me your experiences?

[Infamous 0]

I use a ret pally and they're middle of the pack dps but still pull decent dps

[Wetty 6]

Like all DPS, they're good if you enjoy playing it and want to maximize your class! Any Paladin is a great asset to any raid team, their ability to bypass certain mechanics is very very nice!

[Furiyers 10]

I think ret is in a great place currently, and I don't believe that they're "middle of the pack" dps by any means. Like all classes/specs it all depends on player knowledge and skill. If you know the ins and outs of your DPS priorities and CD usage, you can top charts no problem with good gear. The utility paladins bring makes it that much more fun being able to help off-heal and bubble through certain mechanics or throwing bops/salvs on healers and crazy warlocks (looking at you Zagam >.>). I particularly enjoy throwing lay on hands on a DK tank that just triggered his purgatory. I've been a main toon/spec ret paladin for about 5-6 years and I've always loved it.

[Fouton 266]

Ret really is low on the dps list. Not saying the spec is terrible, and that you shouldn't play one, since if you play your spec right you will be great on dps no matter what, but if someones playing equally as good as you, its likely they'll be beating you on damage.

 

If you look at the top parses of every spec on every fight you can see what I mean by that, but that would take a while to look at all the data. Thankfully there's a website that has been programmed to consistently update that information!

 

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/

 

Is the 25H Dps charts for top 100 parses of every spec, you can change the list to 10H, 25N, 10N, and 25LFR.

 

Basically Ret is sitting on the lower end of things, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't level one. Ret paladins are still a fun class, and have more utility than any other dps. With the ability to cleanse with Hand of Sacrifice, HoP people, shield yourself, heal, bubbletaunt, hand of salv to save a dps's life, etc.

 

There's so much a ret can do, you can easily have fun with it if your life isn't all about numbers. Pick what you enjoy playing most, and prove everyone you're better by beating them on that weaker class with the same gear

 

Charts removed because of hotfix changes

[Furiyers 10]

I would take those charts with a big giant grain of salt. I've seen as many DKs and monks tear up DPS charts in Flex and Normal as I have warlocks. Every spec in the game is capable of doing crazy damage in appropriate gear as long as the player knows what he/she is doing with their class and the fight. Play what you feel comfortable/enjoy playing, always be willing to learn/adapt and the rest will work itself out.

[Fouton 266]

As I said. If you're better than the other dps, you will beat them. If you are equal, they will beat you.

[Zagam 1,982]

Ret really is low on the dps list. Not saying the spec is terrible, and that you shouldn't play one, since if you play your spec right you will be great on dps no matter what, but if someones playing equally as good as you, its likely they'll be beating you on damage.

 

If you look at the top parses of every spec on every fight you can see what I mean by that, but that would take a while to look at all the data. Thankfully there's a website that has been programmed to consistently update that information!

 

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/

 

Is the 25H Dps charts for top 100 parses of every spec, you can change the list to 10H, 25N, 10N, and 25LFR.

 

Basically Ret is sitting on the lower end of things, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't level one. Ret paladins are still a fun class, and have more utility than any other dps. With the ability to cleanse with Hand of Sacrifice, HoP people, shield yourself, heal, bubbletaunt, hand of salv to save a dps's life, etc.

 

There's so much a ret can do, you can easily have fun with it if your life isn't all about numbers. Pick what you enjoy playing most, and prove everyone you're better by beating them on that weaker class with the same gear

 

Edit: (NOTE: Flex counts as Normals some times, so it could sway some Normal mode settings)

Chart of order of DPS based on class (multiple dps spec classes have their highest spec chosen)

25H	25N	10H	10N
Warlock	Warlock	Warlock	Warlock
Rogue	Rogue	Rogue	Rogue
Mage	Hunter	Mage	Hunter
Warrior	Warrior	Druid	Shaman
Druid	Druid	Hunter	Mage
Paladin	Shaman	Warrior	Druid
Shaman	Priest	Priest	Priest
Priest	Mage	Shaman	Warrior
Hunter	Monk	DeathKnight	Paladin
Monk	Paladin	Paladin	Monk
DeathKnight	DeathKnight	Monk	DeathKnight

Chart is heavily skewed by the number of players playing a class.  Warlocks are the least represented at the moment in terms of volume, but the ones who have stuck with the class play it to a high level.  Paladins are one of the most popular classes, along with Hunters, which is why you see the disparity between Heroic and Normal performance. 

 

Personally, I've seen everything do amazing numbers in the right hands.  Enhancement Shamans, Retribution Paladins, Beast Mastery Hunters, Combat Rogues, Arms Warriors, and Windwalker Monks have all sustained over 400k DPS in my raid group.  Raidbots overall averages don't tell the whole story...you have to realize that some really unmotivated players get lumped in with the stellar players.

[Fouton 266]

A top 100 is still top 100, it's not a perfect graph but it's still accurate. In ToT the ability to rank as a hunter when I was raiding was  all gear based, which means no matter how perfectly you play, gear has become extremely important in dps ranking. I play my hunter flawlessly but I was 8 Ilvl short of perfect and that meant I got hardly any top 100s. It's not a lack of effort. These numbers are accurate.

[Furiyers 10]

i fully, completely, entirely, 100% disagree with the "accuracy" of any WoL-type rankings to determine how good/bad a certain spec is overall. There's too many factors regardless of top 100 or top anything. To each his/her own though.

[Fouton 266]

I believe its accurate for determining the highest potential of the maximum gear and maximum skill to compare the dps. There's going to be some obvious variance in it, these arent ranks of 1 to 11, but actual DPS values that could be different by less than 1%, or by up to 10%. Either way, it shows a general outline of how the dps actually is scaled. Warlocks do in fact have the best dps, and frankly those 3 melee have been seen as weak.

 

You're all trying to read into it as if I'm stating this is the be all end all order. I'm just saying this data is obviously statistical and factual data, and can be used to give a vague outline on how dps do compared to others. Paladins aren't above average dps. Mind you this is also THE BEST SPEC of each class. Not accounting shitty specs that shouldn't be played, which you will see a lot of in normals.

[luxinterior 1]

There are 3 type of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.   I'm sure the chart accurately reflects some of the potential of each class, but I agree with those that advocate playing what you enjoy the most, and that pretty much any spec can top the charts with a knowledgeable player behind the keyboard.

[Fouton 266]

Again, everyone is saying that, no one is saying play warlock. I said as my first statement that you can top the charts with skill, and to play what you want.

[Deadlylocks 2]

Again, everyone is saying that, no one is saying play warlock. I said as my first statement that you can top the charts with skill, and to play what you want.

I'll call BS on that.  I say play a lock and love it!  LOL

[Astherion 4]

I am currently progressing HC with my retribution paladin. As for raid performance, it's definitely middle of the pack. Not the best, not very bad.

 

Note that the crucial thing is to change your ghyphs and talents depending on boss. Don't forget to change your seal when needed.

Also, don't expect high dps if you don't have a good weapon. Weapon damage is highly important for your dps. Always upgrade your weapon first.

If you have a good warlock in your group, you will never have bigger overall aoe damage than him. I also struggle to keep up with rogues, otherwise it mostly depends on the fight.

 

Note that raids are not only about damage. They are also about survival. Watching only damage meters is stupid. Paladins have lots of abilities that make encounters easier - stuns, cleanse, hand of protections, hand of sacrifice, hands of freedom, devotion aura, many personal damage reductions and lots of free heals which can save other players from dying.

 

A retribution paladin should always have low damage taken.

[Fouton 266]

Watching only damage meters is stupid. Paladins have lots of abilities that make encounters easier - stuns, cleanse, hand of protections, hand of sacrifice, hands of freedom, devotion aura, many personal damage reductions and lots of free heals which can save other players from dying.

 

A retribution paladin should always have low damage taken.

 

Exactly this. I actually plan on going in depth about this on my blog "The World of Fouton", and it's definitely one of my lest favourite parts of the game. It's also the same as a holy paladin, or comparing different classes of tanks. Everyone's damage is different, but how important are their CDs. If you can skip bringing a healer due to number of defended then you're set.

 

Its tough for people to remember, and often times everyone just states at the meter. It's my biggest pet peeve.