Subtlety Rogue PvP

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments about our Subtlety Rogue PvP guide.

[Guest Cutsin]

With the allied races in mind, how would you rank the rogue in all specializations including Subtlety?

[Mysticall 10]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:35 AM, Guest Cutsin said:

With the allied races in mind, how would you rank the rogue in all specializations including Subtlety?

Hi! Even with Allied Races in mind, the races are the same on both sides. Human is best defensive alliance race because of Will to Survive and the extra Versatility. Night Elf is great for Shadowmeld, which provides a second "vanish". On Horde side, the only real option is to play Orc. The stun reduction from Hardiness is amazing for every situation

[Guest Anique]

I have a question to your recommended opener. How is it possible to use Cheap Shot on 2 enemies without the talent subterfuge? In the skill tree you recomment Nightstalker.

Merci :)

[Mysticall 10]

4 hours ago, Guest Anique said:

I have a question to your recommended opener. How is it possible to use Cheap Shot on 2 enemies without the talent subterfuge? In the skill tree you recomment Nightstalker.

Merci ?

Hi! Updated it to show that you can only cheap shot on person without subterfuge. However, if you are bursting and have Shadow Dance up, you can cheap shot multiple people for more control and to generate Combo Points

[Guest mike]

1. Use one charge  Concentrated Flame on yourself if you are using the Major Essence.
2. Enter  Stealth.
3.  Sap the enemy healer.
4. Use  Cheap Shot on your main target.
   • This will apply the  Find Weakness and  Prey on the Weak debuffs.
5. Use  Symbols of Death.
6. Use  Shadowstrike.
7. Use  Rupture.

How can you cheapshot (leave stealth) and then Shadowstrike? (requires stealth)

 

Also - would it make sense to bind shadow blade, symbols, cold blooded and S dance?

[Mysticall 10]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:50 PM, Guest mike said:

1. Use one charge  Concentrated Flame on yourself if you are using the Major Essence.
2. Enter  Stealth.
3.  Sap the enemy healer.
4. Use  Cheap Shot on your main target.
   • This will apply the  Find Weakness and  Prey on the Weak debuffs.
5. Use  Symbols of Death.
6. Use  Shadowstrike.
7. Use  Rupture.

How can you cheapshot (leave stealth) and then Shadowstrike? (requires stealth)

 

Also - would it make sense to bind shadow blade, symbols, cold blooded and S dance?

Hi! The guide should now be updated for shadowlands. You will use a Shadow Dance after Cheap Shot to continue using abilities from stealth. It might be an okay idea to macro those abilities together, but also keep a separate bind for them in case you need one and not the other!

[RogueStryder 0]

hey guys! First off... just wanna say... you have an amazing website! Keep up the great work.

As for my problem... as per last message that I quoted... there was a step that was missing in the "Simple Rotation Opener" which was added "Shadow Dance" By introducing this ability early on, it throws off the Burst Damage section off by about 20 seconds (give or take) after step 4 which is Shiv as Shadow Dance is introduced again. How do I fix this so that I can incorporate the simple opener with the burst damage?

[Mysticall 10]

On 11/30/2020 at 6:33 PM, RogueStryder said:

hey guys! First off... just wanna say... you have an amazing website! Keep up the great work.

As for my problem... as per last message that I quoted... there was a step that was missing in the "Simple Rotation Opener" which was added "Shadow Dance" By introducing this ability early on, it throws off the Burst Damage section off by about 20 seconds (give or take) after step 4 which is Shiv as Shadow Dance is introduced again. How do I fix this so that I can incorporate the simple opener with the burst damage?

Hi! The strength of Subtlety Rogue is that you do not need to rely on many cooldown to get a kill, all you need is Shadow Dance. Every stun DR, you are able to chain stun a target and try to kill your target. The opener that is here is pretty much one of the strongest openers you can have against someone that also maximizes your damage on them. After you do the opener, you have to wait until your target is off stun DR so that you can pretty much do it again. Using Shadowblades is optional in the opener, but it might get your targets trinket. Smoke bomb is amazing for when someone does eventually trinket and you can use that shiv to slow, then stun your target. You can skip the Shiv and immediately Shadow Dance, cold Blood, Symbols and Cheap Shot your target so they don't leave the smoke Bomb. I hope this help!

[Exci 0]

Thanks for the guide, but in the stat priority, you mention

1. Agility;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;

And right after: "Mastery is the strongest secondary stat at all times". Which one is it then?

 

[Guest Rick]

Can we get an upgrade here since the big nerf?

 

Thinking that Subterfuge now > NightStalker and perhaps opener is

- cheapshot

- Shadow strike

-Shadow strike

-Kidney

Shadow dance, etc. 

[Mysticall 10]

15 hours ago, Exci said:

Thanks for the guide, but in the stat priority, you mention

1. Agility;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;

And right after: "Mastery is the strongest secondary stat at all times". Which one is it then?

 

Hi! Thank you and that has been updated! Versatility is the most important stat, followed by Mastery

[Guest YOOO]

UPDATE! DONT LET WOWHEAD BEAT YOU

[Guest Helper 101]

Please fix the page https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlety-rogue-pvp-best-covenants-soulbinds-conduits-and-legendary-powers
Stating that Deeper Daggers boosts Shadow Strike's damage is incorrect. Shadow Strike is NOT shadow damage, it is physical, it says in the tooltip, making deeper daggers ONLY help with Eviscerate and Black Powder bonus damage when Find Weakness is on the target.

[Mysticall 10]

On 12/28/2020 at 8:48 AM, Guest Helper 101 said:

Please fix the page https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlety-rogue-pvp-best-covenants-soulbinds-conduits-and-legendary-powers
Stating that Deeper Daggers boosts Shadow Strike's damage is incorrect. Shadow Strike is NOT shadow damage, it is physical, it says in the tooltip, making deeper daggers ONLY help with Eviscerate and Black Powder bonus damage when Find Weakness is on the target.

Good catch! It isn't supposed to be Shadow Strike, it's suppose to be Eviscerate. Thank you for that

[Guest Zhardom]

Hey,

first, thank you for the guide.

My question is, why literally nobody uses the Akaari's Soul Fragment, but goes for (mostly) Mark of the Master Assassin as legendary (according to arsenal on best arena rogues EU?)

Thank you in advance

[Guest Novahcane]

With all due respect, i’m a bit perplexed as to how Akkari Soul Fragment is ranking higher than Master Assassin Legendary? I truly believe Master Assassin is just objectively better. 

[Mysticall 10]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:42 AM, Guest Zhardom said:

Hey,

first, thank you for the guide.

My question is, why literally nobody uses the Akaari's Soul Fragment, but goes for (mostly) Mark of the Master Assassin as legendary (according to arsenal on best arena rogues EU?)

Thank you in advance

Hi!! I have updated the tier list, Invigorating Shadowdust and Mark of the Master Assassin are definitely the two legendaries you want to have!

[Mysticall 10]

21 hours ago, Guest Novahcane said:

With all due respect, i’m a bit perplexed as to how Akkari Soul Fragment is ranking higher than Master Assassin Legendary? I truly believe Master Assassin is just objectively better. 

Hi!! It definitely is and I have updated the tier list, Invigorating Shadowdust and Mark of the Master Assassin are definitely the two legendaries you want to have!

[MacManouss 0]

Hi everyone,
Do you think is it ok to play arena as sub venthyr ? Or this choice is really bad and I need to play as a Nightfae since Kyrian has been nerfed ?
Thanks for all stuff !

[Mysticall 10]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:00 PM, MacManouss said:

Hi everyone,
Do you think is it ok to play arena as sub venthyr ? Or this choice is really bad and I need to play as a Nightfae since Kyrian has been nerfed ?
Thanks for all stuff !

Hi! Unfortunately, Venthyr is one of the weaker covenants for Sub Rogues :(. Kyrian gives you great burst damage and night Fae is strong to help you restealths + the extra mobility is perfect for kiting away from enemies when they are focusing you.

With that said, Venthyr still gives you extra mobility with Door of Shadows. Flagellation is just too long of a cooldown and doesn't do enough damage to make it useful for PvP. I hope this helps!!

[Guest Xray]

hi. Just pointing out that this guide says " at the end of this path, you will have gained more damage from reverberation and combat meditation" 

But this covenant path dont have reverberation in it. Can be confusing for someone, since reverberation is nerfed hardly, and echoing rep dont do that much damage on its own in pvp, but the buff it provide whit combat meditation is nice.

At the end of this path, you will have gained more damage from  Reverberation and  Combat Meditation

[Mysticall 10]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:15 PM, Guest Xray said:

hi. Just pointing out that this guide says " at the end of this path, you will have gained more damage from reverberation and combat meditation" 

But this covenant path dont have reverberation in it. Can be confusing for someone, since reverberation is nerfed hardly, and echoing rep dont do that much damage on its own in pvp, but the buff it provide whit combat meditation is nice.

At the end of this path, you will have gained more damage from  Reverberation and  Combat Meditation

Thank you for pointing this out, I can see how that can be confusing. Just updated it so be clearer!

[Guest Almo]

Hey, first of all this is an amazing guide but i have a question regarding the gear and stat priority section. 

They say versatility is the strongest secondary stat but then still recommend mastery juwels and entchants for rings. Is there any reason for that? Thanks in advance!

[Shadenox 0]

2 hours ago, Guest Almo said:

Hey, first of all this is an amazing guide but i have a question regarding the gear and stat priority section. 

They say versatility is the strongest secondary stat but then still recommend mastery juwels and entchants for rings. Is there any reason for that? Thanks in advance!

Hey !

While Versatility is an amazing stat - both offensively and defensively - you get more damage per point with Mastery. With full PvP gear you have more than enough Versatility defensively-wise, and also you reach the point where stats begin to have DRs so every point of Versatility you add is less and less impactful. For both these reasons you are better off investing into Mastery with enchants and sockets to gain more damage ! That being said if you want to min-max there are situations in which you may prefer Versatility still. Facing another RM or RMX while playing it yourself, you will never lack damage to kill, and you want to be as tanky as can be. But not everyone walks around with a stash of gems in their bags to resocket the gear every game, so we will ignore that.

I would add that if you are a high end Mythic raider and can get pieces of gear with the same iLvL as your PvP gear after PvP scaling, but with a lot of Mastery and a little bit of Versatility (as opposed to PvP gear that always has a lot of Versatility and a bit of other secondary stats) then you should equip a few of these to increase your burst damage as long as your Versatility remains in the 30-35% range. As I said earlier one point of Mastery gives more damage than one point of Versatility !

Hope it helps !