Thorns Crusader

[Guest jb4479]

You recommend Belt of the Trove but do not have Bombardment as a listed skill?

[Yolo 40]

19 hours ago, Guest jb4479 said:

You recommend Belt of the Trove but do not have Bombardment as a listed skill?

Belt of the Trove is included for the sole purpose of trigger ing the 4 set bonus of invoker, but its damage (even with the Thorns rune) does not justify inclusion to the build. So just read the affix as : reduces your damage taken by 50%

[Knutsanity 15]

On 5/30/2019 at 3:46 PM, Yolo said:

Moratorium smoothes out damage intake, which synergizes the life on hit self sustain of the build, but quickly gets outclassed by esoteric because moratoriums damage stagger % does not get increased, but esoteric's does with increased gem levels. After all, the most dangerous affixes are Elemental. (Looking at you, Arcane enchanted and Molten). So most like, you'll want esoteric in place of Stricken at Low grs where you do not hit by the RG health wall, and Trapped at High GRs, when you do. 

Now i have a Question/conversation starter: What about Gogok of Swiftness? 15% CDR sounds pretty nice to achive permanent Iron Skin,  not to mentions the IAS. 

I love that question. On hardcore I'll never let the Esoteric go, I like to push rather than go low level for farming, so BotS is impossible to replace too. So that only leaves Thorns, which goes real high and can't be changed. So if you ask me all 3 are necessary for high level and Hardcore. Maybe for regular though, you can replace Esoteric, and maybe for lower level, for farming quickly, you can replace any of the 3. You don't need BotS or the thorns if you are massacring everything anyway, and would massacre that much quicker. 
Or if I had more courage even on high level HC you could replace esoteric if you are good enough from the law, and resist all gems. It does sound to me like an even conversation between the 4 in which you can tweek some gear and gems to incorporate it. 

[Guest NJC]

How important is 'Life on Hit' on the Pig Sticker? I ask because I was lucky enough to get a Primal Ancient but unlucky enough to get it on another character so it has +1000 Intelligence instead. I rerolled it to +1000 Strength but it's missing the LoH stat. Should I reforge it in the cube even though it'll more than likely downgrade to just a "legendary"? So annoying

[Yolo 40]

8 hours ago, Guest NJC said:

How important is 'Life on Hit' on the Pig Sticker? I ask because I was lucky enough to get a Primal Ancient but unlucky enough to get it on another character so it has +1000 Intelligence instead. I rerolled it to +1000 Strength but it's missing the LoH stat. Should I reforge it in the cube even though it'll more than likely downgrade to just a "legendary"? So annoying

With the high attack speed the build has, Life on Hit is the core of your survival, and you should never neglect it, and the Weapon is the highest contributor of LoH for an equipment slot. 

But the more important thing about the Weapon slot in Invoker Builds, that the weapon damage range (the primary stat) is not calculated into the main damage output (The 6 set bonus), and is pretty much a dead stat in that manner. Because of this, you are better off with a good rolled non-Ancient (str/cdr/ias/vitality and rerolled damage range into LoH) than a primal with damage range. 

[Guest]

But I would NOT reroll the primal ancient!!!

The weapon is not that rare, spending some bloodshards or upgrading yellow items to ancient should give you another pigsticker very fast.

This way you can keep the primal - maybe you have need of it in the future?

A few bloodshards / deathbreath can be farmed in a very short time, but another primal pigsticker you'll probably never encounter again in the next few hundred gaming hours.

[Yolo 40]

1 hour ago, WedgeAntilles said:

But I would NOT reroll the primal ancient!!!

The weapon is not that rare, spending some bloodshards or upgrading yellow items to ancient should give you another pigsticker very fast.

This way you can keep the primal - maybe you have need of it in the future?

A few bloodshards / deathbreath can be farmed in a very short time, but another primal pigsticker you'll probably never encounter again in the next few hundred gaming hours.

Crusaders have a high pool of one handed weapons, but a very small of daggers - with that in mind, i only recommend upgrading yellows in the cube. 

[Guest NJC]

Ok, thanks guys! Very informative answers as usual. I'll keep the Primal around 'just in case' and spend bloodshards/upgrade yellows and hope for a well-rolled Pig Sticker. Amazing how one missed stat can make all the difference, as I've been dying a hell of a lot.
I have a Wizard that uses Tal-Rasha + Sages for DB farming so might use him to save up the resources needed to help my Crusader out.
Cheers

[Elekim 4]

Just a minor note. In the "Rotation" paragraph of the Skill page, it is written: "Activate Laws of Justice when you throw yourself in a bigger fight and anticipate a lot of burst coming your way". However, the recommended law for the build now is Laws of Valor...

[Guest Undead]

I took nemesis bracers out of cube and applied leoric crown instead and akarat cooldown is much better plus as long as you are in a big enough mob and spam provoke the cooldown is almost finished if not finished. If it isn't done by the time most of the mob is dead then by the time you mount up to find the next elite pack it is usually recharged. It increased my survivability greatly as well as damage considering you are in akarat alot more. I always spam the cooldown for provoke and armor as soon as they are up. I use akarat as soon as I get to an elite pack if I kill the pack really fast and akarat is no finished I'll try to find a elite pack fast as possible if none around I'll find a bunch of trash sit in the middle and spam provoke so I get block to finish akarat CD. 

[Guest exhale]

After toying with this build for a while, i swapped Nemesis for Angel Hair Braid, in the cube. As far as mob clearing goes, there is a huge difference. I'm currently farming GR75 so i can upgrade Boyarsky's, which I never used until now, and it makes a ton of difference. Having all the runes for Punish feels a bit OP, at least for the moment.

I was a bit unlucky with the weapon, as i got a primal ancient Pig Sticker so i had to roll DEX into STR which i later rolled into health per second. It's still the best weapon i have for this build, so far. I've tried Hack, got a decently rolled ancient one but the damage falls off heavily, compared to Pig, even with the total lack of +STR on it.

I'm curious to see if i can swap CoE with something else, in the cube. I was thinking maybe Flavor of Time would be better. Made a few runs with RoRG in the cube, so i can use different Bracers/Pants/Gloves and i got a bit successful with it as well (still in test phase). I got back the Nemesis Bracers' Elite/Champion boost on shrines. So far, the fastest i've done a GR75 was 02:30 minutes but i got lucky with the map (3 shrines, close to one another and 5 bosses with a huge trash mob density) with RoRG instead of CoE and Nemesis Bracers.

My guess is that it will fall off, later on, since i have yet to see a decent Thorns stat on any bracer/glove/pants. Either way, my point is that so far, Angel Hair Braid is better, cubed, than NB. Maybe someone else, with a higher level Boyarsky's, can test this at a higher GR. I'm still only at lvl 40 for the Chip and it's gonna take a while till i level it up to 90-100.

[Guest exhale]

8 hours ago, Guest exhale said:

After toying with this build for a while, i swapped Nemesis for Angel Hair Braid, in the cube. As far as mob clearing goes, there is a huge difference. I'm currently farming GR75 so i can upgrade Boyarsky's, which I never used until now, and it makes a ton of difference. Having all the runes for Punish feels a bit OP, at least for the moment.

I was a bit unlucky with the weapon, as i got a primal ancient Pig Sticker so i had to roll DEX into STR which i later rolled into health per second. It's still the best weapon i have for this build, so far. I've tried Hack, got a decently rolled ancient one but the damage falls off heavily, compared to Pig, even with the total lack of +STR on it.

I'm curious to see if i can swap CoE with something else, in the cube. I was thinking maybe Flavor of Time would be better. Made a few runs with RoRG in the cube, so i can use different Bracers/Pants/Gloves and i got a bit successful with it as well (still in test phase). I got back the Nemesis Bracers' Elite/Champion boost on shrines. So far, the fastest i've done a GR75 was 02:30 minutes but i got lucky with the map (3 shrines, close to one another and 5 bosses with a huge trash mob density) with RoRG instead of CoE and Nemesis Bracers.

My guess is that it will fall off, later on, since i have yet to see a decent Thorns stat on any bracer/glove/pants. Either way, my point is that so far, Angel Hair Braid is better, cubed, than NB. Maybe someone else, with a higher level Boyarsky's, can test this at a higher GR. I'm still only at lvl 40 for the Chip and it's gonna take a while till i level it up to 90-100.

I made a few mistakes when posting (it was late at night) - i meant "Life per hit", not "health per second", as the rerolled stat on Pig.

[Guest SQUEAL!]

I'm curious why CoE is included in this build when there are no runes that that would benefit from it.

[DaXile 2]

On 11/28/2019 at 12:35 PM, Guest SQUEAL! said:

I'm curious why CoE is included in this build when there are no runes that that would benefit from it.

when it trips, Physical get massive buff for a few seconds i.e massive gain damage on most of this build which is primary physical in nature.

(least it seems to be to my eyes)

^.^

I am toy around figure out best way myself..my earlier season I was pushing GR115 (higher when group) but crimson set not mentioned that point in time, i "modded" worked out amazingly well, using Esoteric better survive ofc, crimson likely end far far better.

----------------

not sure on furnace over blood brother as of yet

TF / BB overall best option weapon slot (hard of other options, though they simply do not compare overall simply put.

(pig sticker / doom bringer..many other sites swear DB best option many reasons, namely fewer boss that Pig trigger, but likely harder get a "near perfect DB over Pig, when pig does however, damage increase is very noticeable on top of all the other stuff .. shame there is not a reverse Pig maybe bit less bonus to all the other archetypes or something? 

I forget highlights of "why and what for in regards to Doom over Pig.

-----------------------

belt wise, as well "off ring" justice seems the most named over CoE for outright survive at high GR lvls, with RoR as per this build, or, CoE with RoR or say ammy for the poison life gain....hard to say what gives the very best for high GR push (for solo and/or group play)

many many options it seems (which is very nice, but more confuddling though awesome is far more "dynamic over almost all other class as well as sets within the same class)

------------

love ThornZader 
^.^
(yes I call as such, I think seems more "cool" than Sader (maybe enemies are sader, I sure am not .. not until / if they nerf to crud

Edited December 8, 2019 by DaXile
I had to fix typos and such as well general edit

[DaXile 2]

just got a prime RoRg right now
( today my local Sunday 9;38pm est)

socket
str --atk spd -- life per hit -- lit res

I swap lit res to
Thorns

quite uber rare find I believe? only prime RoRg have personally seen yet (no one ever link show theirs)
with 5 rolls got thorns on it ^.^

not have to choose between attk speed or life per hit as it has both ^.^

course this makes it effectively only "worthwhile" on crusader thorn spec
(I have "ok" cool down as is, rarely ever ran into trouble yet, though it happens as am sit current @ 39.06% though I can boost up some with some gear swap / re-roll)

--------------------

makes me wonder how Sanguinary Vambrace will pair with this (or not )

sure going to make a pretty sweet set for a speed runner style me thinks

for mine I use justice ring + this new RoRg + Mara Kaleidoscope
belt trove + pig + ak shield 
invoker minus bracer

cube
Blood brother +
neme bracer / depth diggers (damage boost is massive) +
Flavor of time / Convection elements

so far BB has helped me so much more than The furnace
and Depth digger cubed till I figure out other one using the "new" crimson setup

extreme potent this one now is, likely be even better when I fully "fine tune it" if I am able within the S19

Edited December 9, 2019 by DaXile
I had to fix typos (bad eye)

[Reno 0]

Considering none of this builds skills use wrath, why do you recommend the Unstoppable Force rune with Laws of Valor?

[Yolo 40]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:09 AM, Reno said:

Considering none of this builds skills use wrath, why do you recommend the Unstoppable Force rune with Laws of Valor?

Because it interacts with the Captain Crimson set bonus for a nice 50% Damage reduction. 

[DaXile 2]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:48 PM, Yolo said:

Because it interacts with the Captain Crimson set bonus for a nice 50% Damage reduction. 

unstoppable  with rune mentioned, Active = 50% wrath reduction costs (not damage) Crimson does the damage reduction part (based on cost reduction) 

50% wrath cost + 20% from crimson
to have such cost reductions is awesome (certain GR boss seem to suck it up little damage taken, stupid bosses) 

for my thornsader I have used
laws of hope wings of angel (set dungeon, speed runs etc)
OR
laws of justice decaying strength

[Guest Virka]

Hi all, 

 

What about using slash instead of punish? 

We can get a nice life leach if we combine slash and Holy cause. 

Which gr's level can we reach using invoke Thorns build? Actually stuck lvl 92 (considering I'm paragon 900, can I expect go further with this build?) 

[solitha 84]

Hey guys.

Looking specifically at the speedfarming variation. Under gems, it says to use Boon of the Hoarder, to synergize with cubed Avarice Band and worn Goldwrap. However, the build uses Sage's Ribbon in the belt slot for DB farming, and Belt of the Trove or Nemesis Bracers in the cube slot. How is Goldwrap supposed to fit here?

[Deadset 108]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:04 PM, Guest Virka said:

What about using slash instead of punish? 

We can get a nice life leach if we combine slash and Holy cause. 

Which gr's level can we reach using invoke Thorns build? Actually stuck lvl 92 (considering I'm paragon 900, can I expect go further with this build?) 

Hey! Sadly Slash cannot provide you with the essential Block chance that Punish can, which feeds into your damage through the Invoker set piece bonus. As for the GR question, the furthest I've seen this build reach is in the ~120 range; quite tame by Aegis of Valor standards, but what can you do ?

 

On 7/3/2020 at 6:04 AM, solitha said:

How is Goldwrap supposed to fit here?

Hey - it's not! Sorry and thanks for catching that, it's from an older version of the guide, prior to the inclusion of the revised Sage's set. At the moment, it is only suggested that you use an Avarice + Boon of the Hoarder combo. However if you don't find the extra Death's Breaths necessary, you can absolutely drop Sage's from the build and run a Goldwrap.

[solitha 84]

5 hours ago, Deadset said:

Hey - it's not! Sorry and thanks for catching that, it's from an older version of the guide, prior to the inclusion of the revised Sage's set. At the moment, it is only suggested that you use an Avarice + Boon of the Hoarder combo. However if you don't find the extra Death's Breaths necessary, you can absolutely drop Sage's from the build and run a Goldwrap.

Hey Deadset! Nice to see you here ? Thanks for the answer... can't imagine ever having too much DB.

[Guest JRD]

Hello I'm a newbie slowly building up to this set in S21 right now. I have all the green set pieces but need to secure the legendaries. My question is - why the Legendary Gem with +15% against controlled enemies? Is that purely to get bonus attack damage when your templar stuns somthething? Also with the CoE ring, not sure I get its role here either. I know that its generally regarded as OP, but here is the idea that when you reflect damage with thorns, you can have multiplied damage e.g. by reflecting Fire damage while the ring is on its Fire rotation? 

[Guest ?? (4) set Bonus]

I was looking at the set bonus and saw for the 4 piece set bonus (" You take 50% less damage for 20 seconds after damaging an enemy with Bombardment.") But do not see that skill in use in this build Does that mean the 4 piece bonus is not incorporated into the build?

[Smurflord 1]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:40 AM, Guest ?? (4) set Bonus said:

I was looking at the set bonus and saw for the 4 piece set bonus (" You take 50% less damage for 20 seconds after damaging an enemy with Bombardment.") But do not see that skill in use in this build Does that mean the 4 piece bonus is not incorporated into the build?

Use the Belt of Trove, it causes an automatic bombardment every 8 seconds.