Thorns Crusader

[Acinonyx 0]

6 hours ago, Smurflord said:

Use the Belt of Trove, it causes an automatic bombardment every 8 seconds.

Ah Thanks, I did not notice that while going through the information. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Guest Lutti]

I'm wondering why Invoker Crusader should go for resource cost reduction as 2nd paragon after life on hit? Isn't resource cost reduction completely obsolete compared to e.g. area damage? I'm aware 6pc doesn't proc on area damage, but I'd imagine the tiny bit of damage we do get from area damage is better than literally zero damage from resource cost reduction?

[Reno 0]

On 7/4/2020 at 6:58 AM, Guest JRD said:

Hello I'm a newbie slowly building up to this set in S21 right now. I have all the green set pieces but need to secure the legendaries. My question is - why the Legendary Gem with +15% against controlled enemies? Is that purely to get bonus attack damage when your templar stuns somthething? Also with the CoE ring, not sure I get its role here either. I know that its generally regarded as OP, but here is the idea that when you reflect damage with thorns, you can have multiplied damage e.g. by reflecting Fire damage while the ring is on its Fire rotation? 

The level 25 bonus to Bane of the Trapped gives you an aura that slows enemies around you. Since this is a melee build, everything you attack will be slowed by your aura, so you'll be doing extra damage from the first part of the gem. Bane of the Trapped synergizes with itself. Thorns is physical damage, so when the ring is in the +200% physical damage phase, that's when you'll want to pop your cooldowns making you attack faster (apply thorns faster) and block more often (applying more thorns) etc.

[Deadset 108]

On 7/7/2020 at 6:23 PM, Guest Lutti said:

 Isn't resource cost reduction completely obsolete compared to e.g. area damage?

It's actually to feed into your Captain Crimson's 3-piece bonus, which scales damage reduction based on resource cost reduction! It's a minor gain, but arguably bigger than the AD benefits.

[Acinonyx 0]

On 7/7/2020 at 10:23 AM, Guest Lutti said:

I'm wondering why Invoker Crusader should go for resource cost reduction as 2nd paragon after life on hit? Isn't resource cost reduction completely obsolete compared to e.g. area damage? I'm aware 6pc doesn't proc on area damage, but I'd imagine the tiny bit of damage we do get from area damage is better than literally zero damage from resource cost reduction?

I believe it because of the " Captain Crimson's  3 piece set bonus" as Damage taken is reduced by your percentage of cost reduction.

[Guest Elgorian]

So I just cleared my GR70.... got primal ancient pig sticker. The rolls were not the most ideal. 

Fire Damage
Strength
Vit
Life on Hit
Reduce all Resource Cost

Beast/Human Damage
 

I was wondering if this is even salvageable. I was thinking roll Resource cost into CDR or AS. 

Thoughts?

 

[Guest TrashPanda]

But why use unstoppable force on laws of Valor? Or even Akarat champion for that matter? Nothing in here uses wrath?

[Deadset 108]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:28 AM, Guest Elgorian said:

I was wondering if this is even salvageable. I was thinking roll Resource cost into CDR or AS. 

Hey there - this is a usable weapon for sure. I would actually roll the Damage Range into Increased Attack Speed. The Resource Cost Reduction still factors into your Cpt. Crimson bonuses, and will provide you with extra damage reduction.

 

On 7/13/2020 at 4:12 PM, Guest TrashPanda said:

But why use unstoppable force on laws of Valor? Or even Akarat champion for that matter? Nothing in here uses wrath?

Hey there! It's a little counter-intuitive, but take a closer look at the Skill explanation and Gear explanation pages and you will find your answer ? In short, it lies into the equipped Cpt. Crimson set, which greatly scales your Damage Reduction based on Resource Cost Reduction, which Unstoppable Force boosts tremendously. Akarat's Champion is taken for the DPS and damage reduction multipliers, plus the 2nd life rune.

[Guest Guac]

Anyone try cubing Echoing Fury instead of Furnace? The attack speed boost is nutso and the movement boost is noticeable.

I'm on my first character ever, and just at gr72... I'm guessing the damage vs elites is more important at higher GRs.

[Deadset 108]

13 hours ago, Guest Guac said:

Anyone try cubing Echoing Fury instead of Furnace? The attack speed boost is nutso and the movement boost is noticeable.

I'm on my first character ever, and just at gr72... I'm guessing the damage vs elites is more important at higher GRs.

Generally speaking, the build is already great at attack speed due to the Invoker set bonuses, wielding a dagger, and the combination of PunishCelerity and Laws of Valor. That being said, I wouldn't call Echoing Blast unviable, and it can certainly help you while you're doing farming-tier GR runs - keep in touch about its performance as you climb in levels, I'd be interested to hear about your experience!

[Python834 0]

Who the heck would use the pig sticker as a thorns set weapon.......the hack is better because it does thorns damage with every hit......and you need the heart of iron to increase your thorns to 300% of your vit and that is just basic knowledgeWho the heck would use the pig sticker as a thorns set weapon.......the hack is better because it does thorns damage with every hit......and you need the heart of iron to increase your thorns to 300% of your vit and that is just basic knowledge and the attack speed don't really matter if you have a crap ton of thorns and you deal 100% of your thorns with every hit, granted you can use a dagger if you like but having Hack and Heart of iron in the cube slots you will be golden and anything that hits you will die instantly and for the ones that don't attack back like goblins that is what Hack is for and you can use the stead to run them down and kill them......

Edited August 4, 2020 by Python834
Further info

[Deadset 108]

12 hours ago, Python834 said:

Who the heck would use the pig sticker as a thorns set weapon.......the hack is better because it does thorns damage with every hit......and you need the heart of iron to increase your thorns to 300% of your vit and that is just basic knowledge

(...)

Heart of Iron provides a minimal Thorns damage increase, since the Thorns damage is added to your total prior to the multiplication from the set, and it will add 20-30k Thorns at best even in setups with amazing Vitality rolls across gear. Compare that to your other bonuses, which already put you at 250-300k+ Thorns, and you can see how it's a minimal gain compared to other valuable items you can introduce to the build.

Hack's bonus takes your Thorns damage value, but without the Invoker set bonus damage multiplication. The build is entirely dependent on Attack Speed due to the Invoker 6p bonus, making Pig Sticker a very sensible choice. 

[Guest Guac]

On 7/30/2020 at 12:26 PM, Deadset said:

Generally speaking, the build is already great at attack speed due to the Invoker set bonuses, wielding a dagger, and the combination of PunishCelerity and Laws of Valor. That being said, I wouldn't call Echoing Blast unviable, and it can certainly help you while you're doing farming-tier GR runs - keep in touch about its performance as you climb in levels, I'd be interested to hear about your experience!

Echoing blast becomes a little less useful as the GRs get higher. The kills don't always mount up fast enough to keep it going (particularly noticeable with rift guardians). That said, I'm up to GR100 with it, and will probably get to 105 or so. Substituted a unity ring/invincible follower instead the convention of elements. (Side question- any sneaky equips for a follower for my invoker character? Currently trying Oculus ring and Overwhelming desire)

I'm only paragon 660, and don't have great invoker gear (only 1 or 2 ancients) so perhaps it can still go higher with it.

Going to experiment with that vs blood brother/justice lantern which seems comparable.

 

Cheers

[Deadset 108]

On 8/15/2020 at 12:07 AM, Guest Guac said:

Going to experiment with that vs blood brother/justice lantern which seems comparable.

Blood Brother is definitely one of the long-standing contenders for the slot. I think a few patches ago when they shifted even more power towards the 6-piece is when the Pig Sticker/ Furnace combo became the more prevalent choice, but Blood Brother can perform really well (and more consistently than Echoing Fury) in the Cube slot.

[Guest Guac]

8 hours ago, Deadset said:

Blood Brother is definitely one of the long-standing contenders for the slot. I think a few patches ago when they shifted even more power towards the 6-piece is when the Pig Sticker/ Furnace combo became the more prevalent choice, but Blood Brother can perform really well (and more consistently than Echoing Fury) in the Cube slot.

Also noticed that Messerschmitt's Reaver was probably better in the cube for farming than echoing fury. More steed charge and perma akkarat. Couldn't tell if the cool down jived with captain crimson though.

[Deadset 108]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:15 AM, Guest Guac said:

Also noticed that Messerschmitt's Reaver was probably better in the cube for farming than echoing fury. More steed charge and perma akkarat. Couldn't tell if the cool down jived with captain crimson though.

Messerschmidt’s wouldn’t contribute to Cpt. Crimson’s bonuses since it reduces cooldowns directly rather than affecting sheet cooldown reduction, but I agree that it is an AWESOME speedfarm item!

[Guest JRHicks]

The newest version of the build seems to be quite a bit squishier than some older versions. Enough that (at least for me) dying/avoiding death becomes a bigger drag on completing high GRs than my damage output. 

I think the best move to address this is switching out Stricken for Esoteric Alteration. The alternative defensive switch would be to lose CoE, wear Justice Lantern. That change feels like less defense gained, more DPS lost. 

[Deadset 108]

Esoteric Alteration is a viable route for as long as you don’t feel the Rift Guardian fight as too much of a bottleneck to the Greater Rift completion! Invoker Thorns Sader already excels at single target damage, so the loss of Stricken should be bearable for the vast amount of GR progression.

There’s also a middle ground option with Bane of the Powerful, which provides a balance between damage boost and damage mitigation, and will serve you well during GR speed farm.

[Guest Tezz]

I noticed you have Heavenly Strength on. This is probably for the set flail & shield, but the new etherial flail is a 1hander. Might I recommend the attack speed passive for 1 handed weapons while wielding the etherial? And H-Strength for the set pair?

[Deadset 108]

Hey! Yes, this is correct; when using the recommended Ethereal for S24, you should alter Heavenly Strength to Fervor. Apologies for the confusion.

[Guest Aarandal]

Hey just an option for those who are having a difficult time choosing between provoke and the benefits that it brings (Akarat's Awakening) vs Shield Glare which procs the  Legendary Gem for free crits. You can just take Provoke, and then run bottomless potion of fear. This procs the automatic crit with a 12yd AoE fear.

[Guest Von Ziegler]

Am I missing something Laws of Valor : Unstoppable Force' active skill "empowering the Law also reduces Wrath cost of all skills by 50%.".... we dont use Wrath in this build.... what am I missing here???

Wouldn't a chance to stun, or increased life on hit, or even chance to increase duration be better than.... nothing?

[Rolly22 0]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:30 PM, Guest Von Ziegler said:

Am I missing something Laws of Valor : Unstoppable Force' active skill "empowering the Law also reduces Wrath cost of all skills by 50%.".... we dont use Wrath in this build.... what am I missing here???

Wouldn't a chance to stun, or increased life on hit, or even chance to increase duration be better than.... nothing?

Backread. The reason is the Cpt. Crimson set. Resource Cost reduction directly works on CDR in Cpt. Crimson.