Impale Demon Hunter

[Guest Question]

Regarding the gem setup, why not have Bane of the Powerful and Pain Enhancer as the 2nd and 3rd gems? I feel like Gogok of Swiftness is a crutch that only really needs to be used if one's gear is not optimal. Without Gogok, perma-Vengeance can still be achieved with 3 cooldown reduction rolls (on shoulders, gloves, and weapon/rings/quiver). The net effect would be the loss of dodge chance and attack speed from Gogok and gear rolls (cdr rather than ias) in exchange for the 20% multiplicative buff of Powerful and the additional elite damage and elite damage reduction from Powerful's rank 25. For an elite hunting build, that is extremely beneficial compared to the minor attack speed loss which doesn't add all that much dps, since Pain Enhancer already provides so much.

Alternatively, it is also possible to replace Chain of Shadows and the 2 Aughild pieces with Strongarm Bracers and 2 Captain Crimson's pieces (belt + pants/boots) for similar results. The additional cooldown reduction from Captain Crimson can also obsolesce Gogok for Powerful, though the damage from this supplementary set is weaker than with Aughild (not accounting for Strongarm). The main downside to this setup is the loss of Chain of Shadows, which makes elite hunting somewhat harder. To compensate, Captain Crimson provides resource cost reduction, and rcr can be rolled on shoulders (in place of vitality whilst still providing toughness due to Captain Crimson). Additionally, the Vault rune can be changed from Rattling Roll to Tumble. In this setup, no gear rolls are affected except for the shoulders (which should be dex, cdr, rcr, area damage), and the net effect would be the replacement of Aughild, Chain of Shadows, and Gogok with Captain Crimson, Strongarm, and Powerful. Again, the main benefit is the replacement of Gogok with Powerful, since Gogok's attack speed adds very little to a build using Pain Enhancer.

[Deadset 108]

Bane of the Powerful is a fine gem for sure, but even at higher gem levels, it is prone to falling off (since it's a timed bonus, rather than a consistent one and it also falls off if you die). It's the reliability and extra toughness provided by Gogok that makes it preferable on the higher end of GR pushes. You are absolutely correct on the option to go for a Cpt. Crimson / Strongarm combo, it's making BotP worth it that is debatable, especially on the higher GR end.

[huntress 8]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:45 PM, Guest Serenity said:

In the skills page it's recommended to choose the Tumble rune for Vault but this is incorrect. It should still be Rattling Roll. Tumble is meaningless when you have Chain of Shadows, and not only that but Rattling Roll allows you to control enemies particularly Rift Bosses. Lastly, when the author elaborates on the abilities, Rattling Roll is always mentioned and not Tumble. I believe that this should be updated as using the wrong rune is a critical mistake.

irrelevant re: rattling roll - RG's are immune to knockback and strongarms/rattling rune do NOT proc the bonus dmg...

[huntress 8]

On 11/28/2019 at 6:52 PM, Deadset said:

Bane of the Powerful is a fine gem for sure, but even at higher gem levels, it is prone to falling off (since it's a timed bonus, rather than a consistent one and it also falls off if you die). It's the reliability and extra toughness provided by Gogok that makes it preferable on the higher end of GR pushes. You are absolutely correct on the option to go for a Cpt. Crimson / Strongarm combo, it's making BotP worth it that is debatable, especially on the higher GR end.

CC requires high paragon and tonnes of RCR - an interesting thread by Kindergarten on the US forums on the subject:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/s6-with-captain-set/3163

I don't tend to analyse the ultra maths of the game, I'm a player, not a damn mathematician.  

Stricken is only really beneficial at VERY high GR levels, and of course, against the RG.  In most cases under a GR130, you will not be hitting the same enemy enough times to maximise stricken's dmg output.  It offers zero DR either.  

Gogok is definitely desirable, for both the extra defence via dodge, and the increased AS, and the CDR.  Sacrificing a sat slot on gloves/shoulders etc for an extra CDR roll is just plain silly.  You'll ideally want IAS or AD on gloves - vit on gloves is really only if you're not very good at playing the build and need the extra toughness imho.  You are far better off playing the build better and using IAS/AD on gloves for the extra DPS.  

Deadset, what do you call a higher GR push lvl?  Pretty much only group players with high paragon will ever be able to push high end GRs with impale - without the extra paragon, toughness is compromised (this holds you back more than DPS from my vast experience)....from iria's fine post on the subject on the EU forums:

Quote

What this means is the paragon 3000 DH can kill monsters in 1-2 GRs higher than the paragon 2000 DH at the same speed. However, the paragon 3000 DH can take hits from monsters 7-8 GRs higher than the paragon 2000 DH with the same damage taken!

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/dexterity-scaling-vs-gr-progression/3215

This is why paragon is broken in this game - it gives a massive, and unfair advantage to group players running solo runs vs solo players running solo runs...I mean, how would you feel if you were a 100m sprinter (legit) and your competitors were all using steroids and cybernetic enhancements?  The current implementation of the paragon system is the same as my example imho.

[Guest Question]

How does Stone Gauntlets compare to Aquila Cuirass in this build?

[huntress 8]

 

On 1/2/2020 at 3:44 PM, Guest Question said:

How does Stone Gauntlets compare to Aquila Cuirass in this build?

well, stone gauntlets bring you to a halt, which is pretty crap for a mobility build imho...I wouldn't even dream of playing with stone gauntlets...

[Guest Question]

1 hour ago, huntress said:

 

well, stone gauntlets bring you to a halt, which is pretty crap for a mobility build imho...I wouldn't even dream of playing with stone gauntlets...

Yes, but Vengeance grants crowd control immunity.

[MrHandsome 5]

You normally have some compensation effect for halting you with the Stone Gauntlets if done correctly. Which is afaik not for shadow impale.

[huntress 8]

On 1/11/2020 at 10:25 PM, Guest Question said:

Yes, but Vengeance grants crowd control immunity.

I see what you're saying, but  don't think CC immunity will work with stone gauntlets.  They're item driven, not monster driven.  I'd have to test of course...and there's no way in hell I'm trying it with my HC char lol!

[MrHandsome 5]

I was meaning more a compensation that you can still move normally. forgot which build could.

[Yolo 40]

16 hours ago, MrHandsome said:

I was meaning more a compensation that you can still move normally. forgot which build could.

LoN Condemn Crusader. 

And all "transformation" abilities (Vengeance, Akarat's Champion, Archon, Wrath of the Berserker) grant immunity to Stone Gauntlet's negative Effect. 

[huntress 8]

7 hours ago, Yolo said:

LoN Condemn Crusader. 

And all "transformation" abilities (Vengeance, Akarat's Champion, Archon, Wrath of the Berserker) grant immunity to Stone Gauntlet's negative Effect. 

Ah.  I don't play Cru.  Tried condemn hated it.  Awful mechanics if you ask me, but that's nearly every build in D3.  

[MrHandsome 5]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:45 PM, huntress said:

Ah.  I don't play Cru.  Tried condemn hated it.  Awful mechanics if you ask me, but that's nearly every build in D3.  

then you didn't get the required stats I guess, and Condemn is done like every half a second Most builds work fine, and yes there are builds that are super dependent on how you combine skills etc, but its for sure not the mayority.

[huntress 8]

9 hours ago, MrHandsome said:

then you didn't get the required stats I guess, and Condemn is done like every half a second Most builds work fine, and yes there are builds that are super dependent on how you combine skills etc, but its for sure not the mayority.

That's a matter of opinion.  I do not like the mechanics of condemn cru.  I heavily dislike it where i have to do A, then B, then C, to get Y.  It's a bad way of designing a game imho.  It's why DH is the best class, in that the gameplay of nearly every DH build is very simple.  I find them much more fun to play.  I don't want to have to button mash 50 thousand buttons to get a build to work.  

[CaperfinWoW 21]

16 hours ago, huntress said:

I find them much more fun to play.  I don't want to have to button mash 50 thousand buttons to get a build to work.  

I understand your point but some people like the reward of pushing 50 buttons.

[huntress 8]

On 1/20/2020 at 6:15 PM, CaperfinWoW said:

I understand your point but some people like the reward of pushing 50 buttons.

and they can keep it ?  I tried the new barb and cru builds and HATED them.  I expect Blizzard to do the same CRAP with the new DH set and i'll be avoiding it.  Hopefully they buff impale, it seriously needs it.  I had a look at the LBs for s19 on PS4 and...

Barb & CRU - both 150 clears.  Wizard and Monk, 145 clear.  Necro and WD, 135 clears.  DH, a 127...that is how wide the gulf is.  We've had no group inclusion in the meta since s6.,  Impale is already dangerously weak (in terms of toughness), people are pushing as high as they do cos of group play & high paragon adding toughness and recovery from main stat.  Toughness needed to be added with the 2.6 buffs, but Blizzard screwed up and didn't listen to players, including myself.  The 2.6 changes sucked anyway - solo players are now screwed over heavily and can't compete, even the skilled players such as myself.  Paragon rules...

edit: as a competitive player, I maintain that LBs should be dictated by skill and not paragon farming...they are meant to be solo LBs...note the word solo.  On PS4 atm, the top 2 HC players are obviously heavy group players, with the top player with lgems all at lvl 150 with ONLY a 119 clear...that is impossible to do as a solo player as lgems stop becoming upgradeable 10 lvls above the GR clear...and, a 119 clear with no augments (obviously a crap load of main stat from group earned paragon points - how is a solo player, on the supposedly solo LBs, meant to compete?)  D3, solo LBs are broken atm and seriously need a SSF LB like PoE does.  Better still, get rid of the current paragon system. 

That'll sort the men out from the boys.   

Edited January 25, 2020 by huntress

[Nebujin 0]

Idea if using:

Bane of the Powerful

In lower GR: Due to the extreme Armor thanks to Dex, i personally would recommend to switch Fang of Knives to Marked for Death (Valley of Death), and Wolf to Boar. Low costs and duration of Valley make it available 99.99% of the GR, and the Boar gives almost 11k Life-Regen + 20% Allres... who cares about those 2.6% Extra-Armor, or the Area that Fang covers, if playing without Pain Enhancer. Both (Valley / Boar) seems to be better in effiency in lower GR (below 116). PS: With the Boar you also have a little Crowd Control.

Question if using:

Pain Enhancer

In higher GR: In case of Fang of Knives, wouldnt the Rune "Fan of Daggers" be better than "Bladed Armor" anyway?
PS: Many Enemy-Types get stunned for 3s, which imo grants higher Survival-Chances than a tiny bit of additional Armor.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Nebujin
Typo i guess, my english sucks.

[huntress 8]

I just had a look at the latest impale s6 build on icy veins and have to really point out some real issues with the build suggestions...(I didn't think that it'd been changed).  

If running Aughild's 2 piece set (shoulder/bracers), the suggested non set ring is CoE?  I strongly disagree with this - without elusive ring, you are a sitting duck.  It's all good to have a bit more damage, but that won't help you if you're DH is dead...you are far better off dropping CoE and using elusive ring for the extra damage mitigation.  

Much for the same reasons as with elusive ring, I strongly recommend running with bane of the powerful - not quite as much DPS buff as with pain enhancer, but there's damage mitigation there too from powerful.  If you're pushing above GR120 and don't have mega paragon, you'll need this DR.  Pronto.  

I see that the build guide now recommends cold dmg too, I personally much prefer lightning for the simple reason that it's easier to maintain hatred, and this means that aquila's is actually being used.  If hatred is less than 90%, then aquila's is totally useless.  Yes, if pushing very high GRs, hatred management won't be an issue, even with cold dmg.  

The set needs a serious DR buff - Blizzard screwed up badly with the 2.6 buffs when they didn't include any dmg mitigation to the build/shadow set.  This problem is being masked by players farming paragons in extensive group play, but for us solo players, we're screwed.  

[Guest Iolair]

Noting that this build claims to have been updated for Season 21, but mentions the 6p set bonus as 50,000 instead of 75,000. Which means it's outdated and hasnt really been updated for the current season. It also implies resource generation from Vengeance, but that only happens if you take the Seethe rune. Otherwise it's simply more damage. 

If the Hatred gen is purely coming from the dagger, then it must assume nothing is getting one-shot by Impale. If so, please provide a version of the build for when you are still gearing up to maximum rifts given that this set is the gift set for finishing the first 4 chapters of the season - meaning that it is being used long before getting into extremely high-tier rifts. I'd suggest going with the last post from Feb of 2020, using the Elusive ring, or changing out Aquila's in the cube for the Visage, providing the DR of Vengeance while picking up the Seethe rune for Hatred generation.

[Deadset 108]

13 hours ago, Guest Iolair said:

If the Hatred gen is purely coming from the dagger, then it must assume nothing is getting one-shot by Impale. If so, please provide a version of the build for when you are still gearing up to maximum rifts given that this set is the gift set for finishing the first 4 chapters of the season - meaning that it is being used long before getting into extremely high-tier rifts.

Hey - just wanted to let you know I took all feedback into account and submitted a significant revision of the build that includes suggestions on how to alter a build when starting out / doing lower GR content (like the Season Journey, etc.) It should be up shortly.

The guide has also been reverted to its original recommendation for the lightning version of the build; the cold rune is very much viable and competitive, but it's more fishing-oriented and simply might not feed most needs.

The 50k to 75k was indeed a remnant from an older iteration of the set, and considering Blizz's philosophy on buffing numbers, I think it might be wiser if I don't include a specific number ?

[huntress 8]

13 hours ago, Guest Iolair said:

I'd suggest going with the last post from Feb of 2020, using the Elusive ring, or changing out Aquila's in the cube for the Visage, providing the DR of Vengeance while picking up the Seethe rune for Hatred generation.

you can also use a topaz in the helm rather than a diamond for lower difficulty content.  

lightning is better for hatred management and will do more dmg if mob density is low or medium.

On high density, the cold rune is a better option as it can potentially hit more than 9 targets.  Coupled to stacked AD (shoulders, gloves, one ring) and pain enhancer, it can potentially do more dmg than the lightning variant of the build.  

Many players overlook that the cold rune, and hatred management issues with it, cause issues with damage reduction, as quite often, aquilas is not active as you are lower than the % resource required.  

[Tulanian 0]

Why no hatred generating skills in this build? I've used it several times exactly as described here, and constantly run out of hatred. Ended up swapping the companion for bolas.

[huntress 8]

7 hours ago, Tulanian said:

Why no hatred generating skills in this build? I've used it several times exactly as described here, and constantly run out of hatred. Ended up swapping the companion for bolas.

you get hatred from when you impale a monster twice.  There are several ways to play this build. 

A.  lightning - easier to manage hatred as you get more daggers (9)

B.  cold - potentially more dmg (more than 9 daggers if you have enough mob density), but typically, you will not get enough mob density most of the time, making it trickier to play as you get (typically) less daggers than you would with lightning and less chance of returning hatred.

For newbies, I really recommend that you stick to the ricochet rune (lightning dmg).

the build is designed to be "in the face" of monsters.  If you are kiting from a distance, less daggers will hit, and you'll get less hatred returned.  

the build is also a push build, not a farm build - even T16 is too easy for it and you one shot mobs and get no hatred returned.  However, there are ways to modify the build so that you can farm T16.  I recommend:

1.  Swap the vengeance rune from dark heart to seethe (gain 10 hatred per second)

2.  change the armour slot in the cube from aquilas to visage of gunes (to get the dark heart vengeance rune back for the DR)

if you are still having issues, you can swap out the diamond in the helm to a topaz for more RCR.  

note: DR = damage reduction and RCR = resource cost reduction

I farm keys with my s6 impale build every season (faster than UE MS) without any real issues.  

The build will perform best above GR95 (that's taking into account the 2.6.8 patch buff to the holy point shot quiver).  Below GR95, I do points 1 & 2 above.  

Hope this helps.

[Tulanian 0]

16 hours ago, huntress said:

you get hatred from when you impale a monster twice.  There are several ways to play this build. 

A.  lightning - easier to manage hatred as you get more daggers (9)

B.  cold - potentially more dmg (more than 9 daggers if you have enough mob density), but typically, you will not get enough mob density most of the time, making it trickier to play as you get (typically) less daggers than you would with lightning and less chance of returning hatred.

For newbies, I really recommend that you stick to the ricochet rune (lightning dmg).

the build is designed to be "in the face" of monsters.  If you are kiting from a distance, less daggers will hit, and you'll get less hatred returned.  

the build is also a push build, not a farm build - even T16 is too easy for it and you one shot mobs and get no hatred returned.  However, there are ways to modify the build so that you can farm T16.  I recommend:

1.  Swap the vengeance rune from dark heart to seethe (gain 10 hatred per second)

2.  change the armour slot in the cube from aquilas to visage of gunes (to get the dark heart vengeance rune back for the DR)

if you are still having issues, you can swap out the diamond in the helm to a topaz for more RCR.  

note: DR = damage reduction and RCR = resource cost reduction

I farm keys with my s6 impale build every season (faster than UE MS) without any real issues.  

The build will perform best above GR95 (that's taking into account the 2.6.8 patch buff to the holy point shot quiver).  Below GR95, I do points 1 & 2 above.  

Hope this helps.

Thanks.  My mistake seems to be trying to keep my distance, which is naturally what one does with Rapid Fire, Multishot, or Strafe builds (my main is a GoD strafe build with an Ancient Dawn mainhand and a Primal Ancient Balefire Caster offhand, Ninth Cirri's Satchel in the cube).  

Didn't occur to me that my Impale build was doing too much damage to return the hatred I need.  Makes sense.  None of my gear for Shadow is Ancient, much less Primal, so the idea that I'm overpowered for T16 is pretty funny.

[huntress 8]

7 hours ago, Tulanian said:

Thanks.  My mistake seems to be trying to keep my distance, which is naturally what one does with Rapid Fire, Multishot, or Strafe builds (my main is a GoD strafe build with an Ancient Dawn mainhand and a Primal Ancient Balefire Caster offhand, Ninth Cirri's Satchel in the cube).  

Didn't occur to me that my Impale build was doing too much damage to return the hatred I need.  Makes sense.  None of my gear for Shadow is Ancient, much less Primal, so the idea that I'm overpowered for T16 is pretty funny.

it has always been overpowered.  T13 (pre T16 implementation) was even worse.  For gem upgrades (augmenting) I push ranks up to GR69 with my UE MS gold/DB farm build, then swap to s6 impale to get them from that rank up to my preferred augment levels (SC, 110, HC 100 pre s21, post s21 with the hps quiver buff, I'm pushing augments to 110).  

The build is very powerful in the hands of a good player.  I've done a 112 so far, sub p700, no augments, lgems all under 90, missing 3 ancients from the build, non-perfect rolls on a few items.  

god build is ruining the season for me and this will be my last season playing competitively unless Blizzard pulls the finger out and actually balances the game properly.  There's zero need to have god build 10 GRs more powerful than the other DH builds in the game, it's a total joke and decreases player variety.  

edit: vs some mobs, I kite where needed, for example, accursed or grotesques.  If I see mortar, I close the gap to the elite pack immediately.  I used to kite with arcane elites, but now I get in the mix up close and simply move away when the beam is coming my way (either move or vault, depending upon the situation).  Remember, vault triggeds numbing traps passive, so you get DR from it.  

Edited August 5, 2020 by huntress