Rathma Mages Necromancer

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments and feedback about our Rathma Mages Necromancer build guide.

[Guest RichardRahl]

Can we get stat priorities please.

[gwerdna 0]

Love the build. I have always loved necromancers. But, it appears that there is little to no survivability with this build. Even in t13 normal rifts, you get 1 shotted by certain abilities (frozen pulse, thunderstorm, etc). This is a viable build for groups that have someone else to take hits for you, but otherwise solo you spend a lot of time dying or losing you skeleton pets due to the passive.

[positiv2 953]

On 1/19/2019 at 11:31 PM, Guest RichardRahl said:

Can we get stat priorities please.

These should be present on the gear page.

[Guest D of demagogue]

Gwerdna: I have the same problem, non cursing and non corpse lance builds have no built in damage reduction capabilities.  I'm trying to fine tune the balance of damage vs survivability, I swapped out convention of elements for Unity, gave same to follower w/enchanting favor and survivability increased.  Naturally,  damage output also went down, but as I said, balance.  Also, really spam that devour, and grab those health globes!  I'm only at GR 76 solo for my necro, so I a-m merely sharing my experiences, not trying to advise.

Steuart's greaves really helps in grabbing those health globes and making myself harder to hit.  Had to drop simulacrum for blood rush, and therefore run with slightly less damage from the mages, but dealing more constant damage (from running around devouring, grabbing health globes at high speed, using reapers wraps to quickly fill my resource, command skeleton then dropping a pair of mages) allows me to manage my distance better than herding a group together and then annihilating them all at once when my cooldowns reset.  Keeping my distance usually improves my survivability too.   To be honest, the higher level the difficulty is, the more my survivability comes from killing the enemies as quickly as possible, so I may change my mind, especially since that swap out won't be possible after the season ends...  I'll be so sloooooooow!

[Guest Concerned Diabloist]

Since wearing the Tasker and Theo this season, which item should be cubed instead ? I wish these, "guide was revised for changes" were done a little less half arsed tbh. I have noticed this oversight on multiple guides for this season ?

[Knutsanity 15]

They have it up on the builds... quickly, impressively, easy to follow.  Requiem Cereplate apparently. 

4.3. Kanai's Cube

• Weapon Slot:  Reilena's Shadowhook
• Armor Slot:  Tasker and Theo (or  Requiem Cereplate in Season 16)
• Jewelry Slot:  Circle of Nailuj's Evol

[Guest Less-Concerned]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:10 AM, Knutsanity said:

They have it up on the builds... quickly, impressively, easy to follow.  Requiem Cereplate apparently. 

4.3. Kanai's Cube

• Weapon Slot:  Reilena's Shadowhook
• Armor Slot:  Tasker and Theo (or  Requiem Cereplate in Season 16)
• Jewelry Slot:  Circle of Nailuj's Evol

Thank you. You're right it does actually say  Requiem Cereplate on the introduction page.
My problem was that it was not on the Gear, Gems and Paragon page and i never thought to go back to introduction to check there since i only ever use the gear and the skill pages. On the Gear page it still says Ring of Royal Grandeur which is still something that should be updated imo ?

[Guest Sorcrow]

doors...im thwarted by doors. Is casting a mage the only way to open? if you have no essence and all your skills are on cd   youre stuck there waiting.

[Kaelos 74]

Speedfarm build feels weak in 4man T13 normal rifts. I think it should be reworked to Singularity Skele Mage version.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Kaelos

[Guest Rolling through door]

On 2/22/2019 at 3:49 PM, Guest Sorcrow said:

doors...im thwarted by doors. Is casting a mage the only way to open? if you have no essence and all your skills are on cd   youre stuck there waiting.

As my temporary name suggests, roll through any breakables silly person.

[Knutsanity 15]

On 3/19/2019 at 12:49 PM, Guest Rolling through door said:

As my temporary name suggests, roll through any breakables silly person.

I was going to suggest that too, but I think that makes us console players. Pretty sure the "evade" button is only on console. An extra little gift to make up for some of the more difficult gameplay issues as compared to PC. Like being able to aim with pin point accuracy in PC and such. I could be wrong though, they could've added that into PC and I read old news. Excellent name though. 

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:49 PM, Guest Sorcrow said:

doors...im thwarted by doors. Is casting a mage the only way to open? if you have no essence and all your skills are on cd   youre stuck there waiting.

Pretty much, yep. Doors are the enemy of most Necro builds.

[Guest Rathma’s Gimp]

On 1/27/2019 at 12:28 PM, gwerdna said:

Love the build. I have always loved necromancers. But, it appears that there is little to no survivability with this build. Even in t13 normal rifts, you get 1 shotted by certain abilities (frozen pulse, thunderstorm, etc). This is a viable build for groups that have someone else to take hits for you, but otherwise solo you spend a lot of time dying or losing you skeleton pets due to the passive.

Lol if you’re blind maybe 

[Kaelos 74]

I wonder if build would get a lot stronger if we focus on cooldown reduction in gear. Active Simulacrum doubles our essence so makes full skele mages a lot stronger and Land of the Dead has useful stun.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Kaelos

[Elekim 4]

Some minor notes, as usual:

1) The table in the Gear page does not recommend IAS and Crit Damage as stat priorities for the Witching Hour: although they are recommended in the text, in other build pages they're also recommended in the table, so maybe this should be uniformed?

2) In the Speed Farming Variation page it is written: "Swapping the defensive Decrepify curse for the automated, offense staple Frailty"; however, Decrepify is not among the recommended skills for the main build and thus cannot be swapped away...

3) In the same page, is also written: "In the passives, replacing progression choices like Overwhelming Essence and Life from Death with powerful farming passives like Fueled by Death and Final Service". However, Final Service is a passive skill already recommended for the main build, and Fueled by Death is not mentioned in the "adapting skills" table nor in the introduction page (nor anywhere else). The two passives that are recommended as replacement for  Overwhelming Essence and Life from Death are instead Dark Reaping and Spreading Malediction.

3) Later that page, in the "Adapting gear" section, it is written: "you will ideally finish off the farming jewelry with a Hellfire Amulet of Intelligence with a helpful fifth passive like Dark Reaping"; but Dark Reaping is already a recommended passive, so at leat another one should be mentioned. Maybe Fueled by Death?

4) In the Speed Farmin Variation page, Rathma's Ossified Sabatons has "All Resistance" as a stat priority, and not "Skeletal Mage %", which is probably a mistake.

5) Which is the recommended Follower and Potion for the build?

[Gilthas 0]

I've been using Icyveins builds in the past few seasons and see that you guys consider that the Singularity Mage Rathma and Jesseth build needs no changes for season 21.

The text is kind of outdated though, since there is no mention of Haunted Visions now keeping your simulacrums up until they die. I'm also wondering if the updated Razeth's Volition can't compete with Tasker and Theo now. Tasker and Theo gives more attack speed for your mages, but the ability to choose the Skeleton Archer rune (which can provide up to 30% attack speed) plus the damage reduction seems really nice.

I also wonder whether you could fit Captain Crimson in the build, but that would require dropping CoE and Witching Hour, which is a lot more iffy.

I know the LoD Singularity Mage build is much stronger, but some people (like me) still like to use Rathma.

Anyways, thanks for all the work you guys do for the D3 community.

[Deadset 108]

On 7/3/2020 at 4:09 AM, Gilthas said:

I'm also wondering if the updated Razeth's Volition can't compete with Tasker and Theo now. Tasker and Theo gives more attack speed for your mages, but the ability to choose the Skeleton Archer rune (which can provide up to 30% attack speed) plus the damage reduction seems really nice.

I also wonder whether you could fit Captain Crimson in the build, but that would require dropping CoE and Witching Hour, which is a lot more iffy.

Hey - I just wanted to let you know that these are all very valid points and I am thinking about them as well, but newer builds took priority testing-wise and not much attention was paid to poor old Rathma ? I will take a thorough look at its options over the next few days however, and will very likely update the guide with Razeth's at the minimum.

Both Rathma and Trag'Oul desperately need developer attention though. Wizard and Necromancer sets (with a few notable exceptions) are in a rather poor state.

[Gilthas 0]

5 hours ago, Deadset said:

Hey - I just wanted to let you know that these are all very valid points and I am thinking about them as well, but newer builds took priority testing-wise and not much attention was paid to poor old Rathma ? I will take a thorough look at its options over the next few days however, and will very likely update the guide with Razeth's at the minimum.

Both Rathma and Trag'Oul desperately need developer attention though. Wizard and Necromancer sets (with a few notable exceptions) are in a rather poor state.

It's good to know that you guys are thinking about the weaker builds too. I can only imagine all the work into updating guides when new stuff gets released. You only have time for so much, and it's natural to focus on the stronger builds that will definitely see more traffic.

And yeah, I completely agree that several sets need some love from the developers. In Rathma's case, it's just sad that the 2-piece is dedicated to an ability that just can't make it into the build. It's going to take some creativity to make Army of the Dead strong enough to replace the staples in the build.

Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the build, and thanks for keeping these updated.

[Deadset 108]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:24 PM, Gilthas said:

In Rathma's case, it's just sad that the 2-piece is dedicated to an ability that just can't make it into the build. It's going to take some creativity to make Army of the Dead strong enough to replace the staples in the build.

Agreed, it's been a point of constant critical feedback since the inception of the class, but no luck so far. Thank you for the kind words and understanding!

[Gilthas 0]

Going to be interesting to see the new Rathma build.

 

I’m not sure about the new mechanics, and I’m worried that they actually made the set weaker.

[Bubble181 14]

It seems we'll be balancing LOTS OF MINIONS for defense and CDR, with Bone Spirit (or just LOTD on very high levels) for damage.

I think it'll play a bit like the Zuni WD builds from a few patches ago. Wall of summons in front, summoner behind.

Imagine having 20 summons up (and since they're all immune to damage and most are permanent, that shouldn't be hard). That would mean having 20000% damage to LOTD, and being able to cast it continuously (20 summons attacking at 1/second means LOTD every 6 seconds, and it lasts 5 seconds), with 75% DR. LOTD was already one of the skills with the theoretically highest damage (before factoring in items and sets). It'll be powerful. The beginning of a rift - or after death - will be another matter, though. You can get, what, maybe 8 summons out before you need corpses? That won't be enough for a good high-GR start. So you'd have to include a corpse-creating skill for the beginning....Flesh Golem seems like a decent choice, though I'm not a huge fan.  

I'm not used to playing this sort of style and I'm not at all a build builder, I'm not up to date on all the latest items to really change things around - a first, very naive build would be starting from something like:

Revive - Personal Army (phys)
Army of the Dead - Death Valley (phys)
Bone Spirit - Unfinished Business (Cold)
Blood Rush - the usual
Simulacrum (the copies count as minions too, right?) - B&B
Command Skeletons - Dark Mending (phys)

Rathma's Shield
Final Service
Grisly tribute
?

5-piece Rathma set (either hands or helmet replaced)
Jesseth set
Haunted Visions
CoE
RORG
Fate's Vow (cubed or worn)
Tasker & Theo (cubed or worn)
Maybe Strongarm Bracers (Death Valley counts as knockback)

 

But, again, I haven't played this yet at all, I'm sure there'll be items I've forgotten that might completely change the way this plays, or that are vastly more powerful.

Looking back, since this build doesn't have any secondary skills, that would make the Simulacrums kinda useless except as 2 extra immortal and permanent minions. That and Haunted Visions might be replaceable with a stronger combination. Maybe Julian' Evol and Raise Skeleton mages? But then you'd suddenly actually use Essence...

[Bubble181 14]

Well, that's nerfed to hell and back already.

Apparently the intent was to use Bone Spirit as main damage dealer and not AotD? Then they....really, really didn't build this set properly.
Anyway, with a max of 8500% extra damage now, that's only 17 max minions needed. 

I think there would've been a better way to tone down the build without just capping everything and limiting it so much, but we'll see.