Trag'Oul Mages Necromancer

[Valks 2,375]

This thread is for comments and feedback about our Trag'Oul Mages Necromancer build guide.

[Guest Viltis]

Is avarice band relevant for great rift? Health and gold pickup radius increase when picking up gold.

[solitha 84]

Hey guys. I got my set, and am having a lot of trouble making this build work. I'm frequently caught in a catch-22; I use all my essence on something I can't kill, and I can't generate any more essence without killing something.

 

I don't have the full set of recommended gear, but I see nothing I'm missing that would account for this. It got really nasty in a bounty, the one where you're in a small area with shrines to cleanse to clear a cursed chest - and me with the recommended Nemesis Bracers. I got stuck using Blood Rush to Devour its one corpse at a time, and... well, dying refills your essence, at least. My other party member had to come in to mop up. I just couldn't finish it.

 

To be clear, in open areas with lots of small stuff to kill it's super easy to run. It's just when I get isolated with difficult foes that I keep grinding to an awkward halt.

Edited February 15, 2019 by solitha

[solitha 84]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:27 AM, Guest Viltis said:

Is avarice band relevant for great rift? Health and gold pickup radius increase when picking up gold.

Avarice Band pairs up with Goldwrap and the Boon of the Hoarder to make a significant defensive combo.

[Guest Yolo]

1 hour ago, solitha said:

Avarice Band pairs up with Goldwrap and the Boon of the Hoarder to make a significant defensive combo.

But Boon of the Hoarder does not work in Greater Rifts, and mobs does not drop anything. 
It works wonders in T13 however, you barely need anything at all besides those 2 items and 1 gem to defend yourself. 

[solitha 84]

14 hours ago, Guest Yolo said:

But Boon of the Hoarder does not work in Greater Rifts, and mobs does not drop anything. 
It works wonders in T13 however, you barely need anything at all besides those 2 items and 1 gem to defend yourself. 

Oh, yeah, that. My bad. The guide's not really clear on that, is it? It does offer an alternative in the Solo Progression Variation though, which ditches that trio.

[solitha 84]

I guess no one monitors these any more?

[Guest LokiWolflord]

On 2/15/2019 at 1:13 AM, solitha said:

Hey guys. I got my set, and am having a lot of trouble making this build work. I'm frequently caught in a catch-22; I use all my essence on something I can't kill, and I can't generate any more essence without killing something.

 

I don't have the full set of recommended gear, but I see nothing I'm missing that would account for this. It got really nasty in a bounty, the one where you're in a small area with shrines to cleanse to clear a cursed chest - and me with the recommended Nemesis Bracers. I got stuck using Blood Rush to Devour its one corpse at a time, and... well, dying refills your essence, at least. My other party member had to come in to mop up. I just couldn't finish it.

 

To be clear, in open areas with lots of small stuff to kill it's super easy to run. It's just when I get isolated with difficult foes that I keep grinding to an awkward halt.

You've probably seen it by now, since this post is a month old, but there is a GR solo variation for this build.

[solitha 84]

On 3/14/2019 at 10:55 AM, Guest LokiWolflord said:

You've probably seen it by now, since this post is a month old, but there is a GR solo variation for this build.

If you read all the posts here you'll see I referred someone else to that very build for that purpose.

But for me, I'm trying to use the regular build in regular content.

[Elekim 4]

In the table of the Gear page (as well as the GR variation page) the "Skeletal Mage %" is not mentioned in the stat priorities of the boots, but I think it should...

[solitha 84]

On 1/18/2019 at 2:38 AM, Blainie said:

This thread is for comments and feedback about our Trag'Oul Mages Necromancer build guide.

Tagging this up again. I don't see any changes to the build that would resolve the problem I had, and since Trag'Oul is up again for this season, I'd like to know if it's ever been looked at.

To reiterate, the build works fine so long as there's little things to kill. But if you run across a single elite or elite pack and fight too long without being able to kill anything, you just run out of essence. The Molting rune of Blood Rush isn't enough essence generation when you're up against a really challenging foe or boss unless they're spawning adds.

It feels super imbalanced... you can run up some high Torments so long as you have lots of mobs, but hit that one isolated challenge and you're far outclassed. It needs something for essence generation.

[Guest reckLess]

I rolled fresh this season last night on hardcore.. Using this set, 2 blood rushes is enough to spawn a set of mages. If you need more than that to kill 1 target, you have bigger issues. I'm clearing content just fine

 

[solitha 84]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:51 PM, Guest reckLess said:

I rolled fresh this season last night on hardcore.. Using this set, 2 blood rushes is enough to spawn a set of mages. If you need more than that to kill 1 target, you have bigger issues. I'm clearing content just fine

 

This has gotten a little old, since there's now a solo variant that addresses the problem I brought up (adding a generator primary). But were you using some sort of variant? Mage costs 40 essence; Blood Rush spawns a single corpse per charge (Molting); Devour only restores 10 essence per corpse. That means 4 Blood Rushes. How were you getting them with only 2?

[Deadset 108]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:05 PM, solitha said:

How were you getting them with only 2?

I'm guessing it was an exaggeration on his part, because your calculation is correct. The crux of the problem is that the main version of the build, as you correctly guessed, only works while you're stomping the content. This was intended, however; the main purpose of the build is speed farming, where you generally one- to two-shot the monsters regardless of pack strength and monster composition. The solo variant is indeed meant to be used when you try to progress with the build in Greater Rifts, and especially when you hit the wall of monsters taking longer to kill than you can sustain from simply Devouring the corpses of their slain fellows. I very much encourage swapping to that build variation if you're trying out the build in GRs, and especially when you notice combat slowing down due to monster HP.

[solitha 84]

1 hour ago, Deadset said:

I'm guessing it was an exaggeration on his part, because your calculation is correct. The crux of the problem is that the main version of the build, as you correctly guessed, only works while you're stomping the content. This was intended, however; the main purpose of the build is speed farming, where you generally one- to two-shot the monsters regardless of pack strength and monster composition. The solo variant is indeed meant to be used when you try to progress with the build in Greater Rifts, and especially when you hit the wall of monsters taking longer to kill than you can sustain from simply Devouring the corpses of their slain fellows. I very much encourage swapping to that build variation if you're trying out the build in GRs, and especially when you notice combat slowing down due to monster HP.

Hi again!

The content I was getting absolutely stuck on was bounties. I could cut through to the objective without even blinking, but then, say, I'd get Cursed Shrines as a bounty, or an act boss, and pffffffffffffff. With the addition of the solo variant and you guys being more active here I'm cautiously optimistic about trying necro again.

[Deadset 108]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:10 PM, solitha said:

The content I was getting absolutely stuck on was bounties. I could cut through to the objective without even blinking, but then, say, I'd get Cursed Shrines as a bounty, or an act boss, and pffffffffffffff.

I see how that can be an issue. I'd probably opt for a more 'generalist' build in this case, honestly; Legacy of Dreams-based build variants have been dominating the Necromancer space for a long while, and with good reason. Have you looked into any of those, or perhaps the new Masquerade set? I can imagine the latter being a little more consistent as an all-purpose set-based build.

[solitha 84]

On 8/18/2020 at 10:51 AM, Deadset said:

I see how that can be an issue. I'd probably opt for a more 'generalist' build in this case, honestly; Legacy of Dreams-based build variants have been dominating the Necromancer space for a long while, and with good reason. Have you looked into any of those, or perhaps the new Masquerade set? I can imagine the latter being a little more consistent as an all-purpose set-based build.

Challenge Rift 163 got me interested in the Masq set and I'd like to try it some time (although the Rift build was, I understand, not complete). After the problem I had with Trag'Oul I was leery... tried the build only available in S20 and failed because my normal group setup is a duo and it was too glassy for that pairing (a concern I had from the beginning). That ate up about half the season, but I was able to switch to a support barb and finish out the journey.

Being a crappy player I've only in the last couple of seasons actually gotten a handle on vetting gear and building multiple sets at once, so it's still an evolving situation for me. By the time I'm any definition of "good," D4 will be out ?

[Deadset 108]

On 8/20/2020 at 4:53 PM, solitha said:

Being a crappy player I've only in the last couple of seasons actually gotten a handle on vetting gear and building multiple sets at once, so it's still an evolving situation for me. By the time I'm any definition of "good," D4 will be out ?

Haha, don’t put yourself down like that! ? You’re finishing out the Journeys, which is already further than most players make it in a Season. I also think it’s very reasonable to expect changes/buffs to the older Necromancer sets, Trag’Oul included, to bring them up to speed with the vastly more popular LoD playstyles. S21’s Masquerade introduction is the first step towards that, I belive. Let’s see what the S22 PTR gets, it should be out in a few weeks.

[Guest AKapnecroman]

I'm a bit confused on the current season build with command skeletons as I can't figure out where to put i on my bar.  I haven't played in a long time so I was curious how I should play this build or what I should put into it.  

[Guest Dragonphire]

On 7/29/2021 at 6:21 PM, Guest AKapnecroman said:

I'm a bit confused on the current season build with command skeletons as I can't figure out where to put i on my bar.  I haven't played in a long time so I was curious how I should play this build or what I should put into it.  

There is a note on the skills and runes page:

Note that in Season 24, the use of an Ethereal weapon will force you out of the Jesseth set (more on that on the gear page), making  Command Skeletons irrelevant here; in their stead, use a curse —  Frailty  Aura of Frailty is an excellent candidate.

[artlessknave 0]

Ruby for...toughness?

[Deadset 108]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:46 PM, artlessknave said:

Ruby for...toughness?

Yep! Intelligence-based classes (such as the Necro, WD and Wizard) have an abundance of Intelligence, which feeds the elemental Resistances, but lack Armor (which Strength gems add to, when socketed in Armor). The best protection comes from a balance between Armor and elemental resistances, hence the recommendation. 

[Guest BlackMarvel]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:15 PM, Deadset said:

Yep! Intelligence-based classes (such as the Necro, WD and Wizard) have an abundance of Intelligence, which feeds the elemental Resistances, but lack Armor (which Strength gems add to, when socketed in Armor). The best protection comes from a balance between Armor and elemental resistances, hence the recommendation. 

Hi DeadSet, thank you for sharing this interesting build - especially the gr variant. I think however that the buttons/links on top of the section refering to the build type are mixed up and should be switched around.

Anyway, I wanted to ask, as you refer to this build as „mid-tier” - what would be the highest achievable GR in your opinion with item rolls close to desirable (at least 3-4 of the essential stats).

I’m currently paragon 660 on my necro and cannot finish a level 85 GR. Item rolls are decent, I have the full set as specified in the build - I’m only lacking in crit dmg and crit hit chance in one of the rings and crit hit chance in the other. With these rolled, do you think it would be possible to push to GR 100-105 around paragon 1000 with this build?

Thank you.

[Deadset 108]

Hey there! Yes, the buttons seem to be reversed, I'll look into a way to fix this mishap (I might simply alter the build to display the GR progression version first, and the farm variation as second, which is the case with most other builds). Sorry for the confusion!

GR100+ is absolutely doable with this build. While I'm fixing the buttons issue, I'll look into modernizing it slightly, but I just checked and there's already a 100+ clear at Paragon 700 on the EU leaderboards with a minor variation of the build (cubes Razeth's Volition, which is a clear improvement, but makes a bunch of other mistakes).