Belicosa 11 Report post Posted January 2, 2014 One of our raid leaders is suggesting that Arcane's dps would increase if you stack crit instead of Mastery. I think he doesn't understand what mastery does, but am bringing the question here for discussion. And no, he does not play mage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horcored 17 Report post Posted January 2, 2014 No Crit would not be a increase over mastery. An arcane mage's mastery increases the dmg we do, based on how much mana we got. Since arcane wanna stay between 90-100% mana for most of the fight, the mastery gives us quite a nice dmg increase. Here's an example: Say u got 85% buffed mastery and 22% buffed crit, that means when ur at 100% mana ur spells do 85% more dmg as a base, and for every % mana u lose, u lose 0,85% dmg done. So since u wanna stay at 90% + for most of the fight, it'll mean that u'll allways have between 77,5% - 85% dmg increase for the whole fight. In adition to this u got a 22% chance to double that dmg again through a crit. Say u instead for 45% mastery and 40% crit buffed, u'll allways do around 36-40% increased dmg and a 40% chance to double that through a crit. In the next example i'll use easy numbers to show how mastery is stronger. Say at the assumed ilvl ur Arcane blast does 100k per hit, no procs, cd's or arcane charges! With mastery build: that 100k becomes 177,5 - 185k per hit with a 22% chance to become twice as strong. With Crit build: that 100k becomes 136 - 140k per hit with a 40% chance to become twice as strong. Assume we'll get off around 150 arcane blast's. Mastery build assuming we'll actually get 22% of our attacks as crit: 32,625,000 dmg from arcane blast alone. Crit build assuming we'll actually get 40% of out attacks as crit: 29,980,000 dmg from arcane blast alone. Which this estimate, a mastery build will give u around 15% more dmg in overall. And also the fact that crit is based on RNG, u could on one boss have terrible RNG and get of way fewer crits and ur dps would suffer big time, but ofc on the other side u could be really lucky and a crit build would shine. But anyhow, in general and in long term, mastery will prove much stonger + its not tied to RNG, only good gameplay. Since the effects of both crit and mastery affects all our spells the same way, this'll give u an easy view on how mastery is stronger. I hope this helps =) - Horcored 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghanjo 37 Report post Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) As Horcored said, there is no way crit will be better than mastery for an arcane mage. Even haste is better than crit. Do you know why your raid leader has this idea? Is it because he is a filthy, greedy warlock who wants the mastery gear for himself? Edit: typo. Edited January 2, 2014 by Gambolputty 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horcored 17 Report post Posted January 2, 2014 Haha, thats so true =D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belicosa 11 Report post Posted January 3, 2014 lol, no, he's a warrior. I don't know where he got his info but I thought I should double check. Thanks for the solid info guys! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akraen 230 Report post Posted January 6, 2014 Warriors say the darnedest things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belicosa 11 Report post Posted January 11, 2014 OK, so he "meant" to say crit over haste. Still wondering, and I know there is no "hard cap" for haste, but is there a break point where you clip your spells during BL/TW? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted January 12, 2014 That is still nonsense. Mastery increases you damage done based on the mana you have. Haste increases your mana regeneration based on the haste you have thanks to Nether Attunement. Crit..? Does nothing for Arcane mage... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voltaa 16 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) There will actually come a point where crit outscales haste for arcane, it doesn't do "nothing" it just isn't as strong as haste or mastery below a certain point. But when you start GCD capping on the regular (given current BIS you won't) crit will outscale haste, this actually happened at the end of cata while I was doing the sinestra achieve (cause I didn't get it while current like a bad) I would have to reforge into crit as arcane due to how much I was GCD capping on AB. I'm sure with certain gear sets it would be entirely possible for this switch to happen in SoO but you almost have to be purposely neglecting mastery for haste pieces. Edited January 13, 2014 by voltaa 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 There will actually come a point where crit outscales haste for arcane, it doesn't do "nothing" it just isn't as strong as haste or mastery below a certain point. But when you start GCD capping on the regular (given current BIS you won't) crit will outscale haste, this actually happened at the end of cata while I was doing the sinestra achieve (cause I didn't get it while current like a bad) I would have to reforge into crit as arcane due to how much I was GCD capping on AB. I'm sure with certain gear sets it would be entirely possible for this switch to happen in SoO but you almost have to be purposely neglecting mastery for haste pieces. I would say that haste would be still more beneficial than crit. While it is true that you will start GCD capping, it is also true that Nether Attunement will scale beyond that point increasing your mana regeneration even further and increasing your mage bomb's damage. Arcane mage is still all about mana after all :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akraen 230 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 It's in people's instincts to hate haste for some reason. They don't even math it out, it's just "omg gcd haste bad now" 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voltaa 16 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) It's in people's instincts to hate haste for some reason. They don't even math it out, it's just "omg gcd haste bad now" Im not just talking GCD cap though, if you are dropping to .8 second casts it's just wasted stats and GCDs, beimg slightly below GCD on meta procs isnt the situation I'm talking about here.Edit: I'm talking about single taget arcane here, I understand the benefits of going past GCD cap for both multitarget arc and frost. Edited January 13, 2014 by voltaa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akraen 230 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 Sorry didn't mean to make that seem like I was countering your logic with anything. Your post just tickled one of my other thoughts. You are the type to actually figure it out, but many mages out there just dismiss haste once there's a question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belicosa 11 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Yeh, I did my tweaks he suggested for a week, then went back and did < 300k dps. So he STFU'd. LOL edited Edited January 14, 2014 by Belicosa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belicosa 11 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 Then again, I upgraded two slots plus the ethereal upgrades...Arcane. gear dependent? Ya think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted January 14, 2014 Yeh, I did my tweaks he suggested for a week, then went back and did < 3k dps. So he STFU'd. LOL Just as expected^^ Then again, I upgraded two slots plus the ethereal upgrades...Arcane. gear dependent? Ya think? No, I don't think Arcane is gear dependant. It is decent and stale DPS on any item levels. The difference is tho, you can stand still more in SoO, than you could in ToT for example. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
